carbide dies

ks_wayward_son · July 10, 2010, 01:02 AM

Brand new to reloading, still haven't completed a single cartridge yet so I'm trying to get as much info. from those who know before diving headfirst into the concept. I have heard that the only way to go when reloading pistol cartridges is to use carbide dies. Does it make that much of a difference when reloading for rifle as well?

ogree · July 10, 2010, 01:22 AM

Carbide dies all the way, if you buy standard pistol caliber dies, you will be kicking yourself in the future. Although the manufacturers tell you to lube every fifth case or so when using carbide.....most people don't bother.
Eliminating the lubing of pistol brass is a godsend cause of the fact that most people load handgun ammo in quantity and that saves alot of time and mess.

When it comes to buying carbide for rifle calibers, there are only a couple of choices in brands and are usually limited to .223 & .308. I guess there hasn't been high enough demand to warrant manufaturers to consider other calibers.
Most peole don't load a thousand rounds in one sitting of rifle calibers except for maybe the two calibers mentioned above.

dmazur · July 10, 2010, 07:10 AM

The reason why carbide rifle dies are made in .223 and .308 is for commercial (or LEO) reloaders who are concerned about die life.

Because these dies are full-length, they still require lubrication of some type.

Bottom line - use standard dies for rifle calibers, carbide dies for pistol to avoid having to use lube.

dlb435 · July 10, 2010, 07:26 AM

Carbide dies are great for straight walled cases. You don't have to use any lube and that makes reloading a lot faster. In bottle neck cases you still have to lube, so there is not such a great advantage. Carbide is much harder than plain steel so the dies will last a lot longer. Most of us will never load enough bottle neck cases to wear out a set of steel dies.
Bottom line; get carbide pistol dies and steel rifle dies.

Uncle Buck · July 10, 2010, 07:51 AM

I have three or four regular non-carbide dies setting on the shelf.

I bought a set of carbide dies for my .45 Colt and found it was so much easier than messing with lube, so I bought dies for my other pistol brass.

Again, a case of "I wish I had listened to the guys who knew."

wncchester · July 10, 2010, 09:07 AM

"I have three or four regular non-carbide dies setting on the shelf. "

Question; who has made non-carbide (or equivelent) pistol dies in the last 20 years?

Farmland · July 10, 2010, 09:18 AM

Does not Lee still offer steel pistol dies? I am pretty sure RCBS still offers steel dies in certain pistol calibers too.

Don P · July 10, 2010, 01:36 PM

Quote:

Question; who has made non-carbide (or equivelent) pistol dies in the last 20 years?

Yep, Lee still advertises them as a less expensive alternative to carbide.

rtpzwms · July 10, 2010, 02:11 PM

I think I might have one set of std pistol dies. It collects dust somewhere not sure where and don't care either. Does that say it all?

rjrivero · July 10, 2010, 02:20 PM

I agree with all who tout the carbide for pistol dies. Sizing is easy with carbide!

briandg · July 10, 2010, 06:48 PM

The two great things about carbide for this purpose are:

Carbide is dense, and it can be machined to a surface so smooth that friction is reduced over what it would be with steel.

Second, carbide can be machined into a small insert, about 3/8 of an inch long, and inserted into the steel die body.

that little ring of carbide is more effective at sizing a case than steel because it is ultra smooth, and will not wear against brass. Seriously, the friction between shell and insert is so low that I can't imagine a shell ever getting stuck, and in steel, that is obviously a ridiculous thing to say.

brickeyee · July 10, 2010, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Carbide is dense, and it can be machined to a surface so smooth that friction is reduced over what it would be with steel.

Most of the reduction comes from the carbide ring being very short.

That is why bottle necked rifle carbide dies still need lube.

Just like the steel die, they grab the entire surface of the shell at the same time.

If you lube about every 10th pistol shell the sizing with carbide goes even easier than using it dry.

oneounceload · July 10, 2010, 07:52 PM

Even with carbide pistol dies, it doesn't hurt to give every tenth or so a squirt of spray lube..............helps make the carbide dies work smoothly, especially on a progressive press

JT-AR-MG42 · July 10, 2010, 08:16 PM

I spray a VERY light amount on mine and shake them around a bit before I start the Dillon up. Makes for smooth and consistant sizing force on the press, even with carbide dies.

It cleans right off when I 'tumble' de-grease the exposed lead bullets.

JT

TXGunNut · July 10, 2010, 08:53 PM

Does that mean my non-carbide sizing dies are collecters' items? Has it really been 20 years, wncchester? Not gonna say how many sets of steel dies I replaced with carbide dies, then Dillon dies.
OK, just checked. Three. 9MM, 38/357 and .45ACP. I load the 45 Colt on a single stage for some reason, first and only set is carbide. Priced Dillon's carbide .223 dies once, bought another can of Hornady's spray lube instead.
Get used to it, JT. Oneounceload is always right, unless I disagree with him. Then he's almost always right.

Uncle Buck · July 11, 2010, 08:23 AM

The dies I have on the shelf are Lee Dies and I think I have a set of Lyman dies also. Most of these came from ebay.

How hard, or how much of a pain in the butt could a little spray lube be, compared to the cost of carbide dies?

Well, I now own carbide dies.

Collectors items?

**Shane Tuttle** · July 11, 2010, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Question; who has made non-carbide (or equivelent) pistol dies in the last 20 years?

Not many, I'm sure. But there's usually plenty on ebay, craigslist, and the like for sale.

Ozzieman · July 11, 2010, 01:02 PM

Another thing you should consider is what type of die.
If you not going to load much and your bullet selection is going to be limited, than any of the cheaper brand named carbide die will work just fine.
But after loading thousands upon thousands over the last 30 years I changed my buying habit and only purchase the better grade of reloading dies.
The attachment below is the Redding competition pistol dies in carbide. The main advantage is the ability to set the depth that the bullet can be seated. The difference between a micrometer gage and a screw makes the double in price easy to live with.
The other item is crimp. If you’re going to reload auto rounds like 9mm or 45 ACP. Spend the money and get a taper crimp die. This make reloading autos much easier and for people starting out will take a lot of the guess work out of reloading.
My other suggestion is if you belong to a range or shooting group ask around and find someone that will show you the ropes. You can see the type of equipment they use and find out what you will like or dislike without wasting a lot of money buying crap.

http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pi...ie_Set__44_Mag

DocAitch · July 12, 2010, 01:46 AM

I purchased a set of RCBS .45 Colt dies within the last 6 months from Midway that are non carbide, unless they were sitting forgotten at the back of a shelf, I assume that they are new.
DocAitch

wncchester · July 12, 2010, 07:57 AM

"Does that mean my non-carbide sizing dies are collecters' items? Has it really been 20 years, wncchester?"

The transition period wasn't immediate, but it was a fairly quick fade from steel to carbide that seemed pretty well done by '90 or so.

At first, the makers charged a lot more than was justified only because they could get away with it, just as they do with digital stuff now. When carbide first became available some guys jumped on board immediately but the then high prices deterred the rest of us. After the initial rush slowed, the prices started dropping and eventually got rational. Most of us changed over when carbide was finally about the same cost as steel. Most makers then droppped steel simply because there was no real justification for two production lines but steel does have an advantage for case life.

Many so-called straight wall cases do have some taper but carbides instantly make them ALL truly straight walled! That is NOT good, it over works the brass and leads to early body splits. Even so, the price of brass vs. the agrivation of lubing says most of us will use carbide and accept the shorter case life.

Steel sizers as collector's items? Maybe. But I don't know anyone who collects dies and doubt we could get much for our old ones. By the year of our Lord 2,110, 75 years after liberal politicians have out-lawed publically owned fire arms and the production of reloading components, ALL of our reloading tools may become collectible curios of a lost past but not yet.

briandg · July 12, 2010, 02:52 PM

I have to give credit to lee. I believe that they were the ones that finally broke the price barrier, and flooded the market with carbide, until there was just no demand left for steel. It annoys the poop out of me that carbide dies have always been at suck a premium. A die body is a die body, period. Instead of reaming, cleaning, polishing, measuring, etc, for a carbide, you bore a hole to fit the insert, and put in the insert. Big deal.

Making that insert, in view of the costs of manufacture, never justified the extreme cost of carbide dies.

I could buy a 90 tooth carbide saw blade, that has 90 precision cut teeth brazed to the surface of that disc, for $50 bucks, at a time when it cost almost that much just to upgrade a set of dies with a simple carbide insert.

During these same periods, I talked with a guy who sold manufacturing tools. He showed me a 1" carbide cutter, with diamond inserts, and he told me that the bearing plant he would be shipping them to would eventually pay about $5 for it.

brickeyee · July 12, 2010, 04:17 PM

Anything not made on large volume costs more, and I really doubt the carbide rings for reloading dies are a very high volume product.

Carbide inserts for lath tooling are cheap, unless you need a specialty one and then the price goes up quickly to painful levels.

Even grooving inserts cost well over simple cutting inserts, especially for smaller grooves.

mete · July 12, 2010, 07:45 PM

Dirt, especially sand can quickly wear out a carbide die !!!

I always first popped out the primer then washed the cases with detergent. No worn carbide for me ! For rifle cases a very small bit of lube will make it easier to operate the press.

July 10, 2010, 01:02 AM	#1
ks_wayward_son Senior Member Join Date: July 19, 2007 Posts: 332	carbide dies Brand new to reloading, still haven't completed a single cartridge yet so I'm trying to get as much info. from those who know before diving headfirst into the concept. I have heard that the only way to go when reloading pistol cartridges is to use carbide dies. Does it make that much of a difference when reloading for rifle as well?

July 10, 2010, 07:10 AM	#3
dmazur Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2007 Location: Pacific NW Posts: 1,310	The reason why carbide rifle dies are made in .223 and .308 is for commercial (or LEO) reloaders who are concerned about die life. Because these dies are full-length, they still require lubrication of some type. Bottom line - use standard dies for rifle calibers, carbide dies for pistol to avoid having to use lube. __________________ .30-06 Springfield: 100 yrs + and still going strong

July 10, 2010, 07:51 AM	#5
Uncle Buck Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 2,592	I have three or four regular non-carbide dies setting on the shelf. I bought a set of carbide dies for my .45 Colt and found it was so much easier than messing with lube, so I bought dies for my other pistol brass. Again, a case of "I wish I had listened to the guys who knew." __________________ Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen.

July 10, 2010, 02:20 PM	#10
rjrivero Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2008 Location: NW Ohio Posts: 1,399	Carbide for Pistols. I agree with all who tout the carbide for pistol dies. Sizing is easy with carbide!

July 10, 2010, 08:16 PM	#14
JT-AR-MG42 Senior Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Posts: 555	One Ounce is right I spray a VERY light amount on mine and shake them around a bit before I start the Dillon up. Makes for smooth and consistant sizing force on the press, even with carbide dies. It cleans right off when I 'tumble' de-grease the exposed lead bullets. JT

July 10, 2010, 01:22 AM	#2
ogree Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2005 Location: Idaho Posts: 151	Carbide dies all the way, if you buy standard pistol caliber dies, you will be kicking yourself in the future. Although the manufacturers tell you to lube every fifth case or so when using carbide.....most people don't bother. Eliminating the lubing of pistol brass is a godsend cause of the fact that most people load handgun ammo in quantity and that saves alot of time and mess. When it comes to buying carbide for rifle calibers, there are only a couple of choices in brands and are usually limited to .223 & .308. I guess there hasn't been high enough demand to warrant manufaturers to consider other calibers. Most peole don't load a thousand rounds in one sitting of rifle calibers except for maybe the two calibers mentioned above.

July 10, 2010, 07:26 AM	#4
dlb435 Senior Member Join Date: January 26, 2009 Posts: 654	Carbide dies are great for straight walled cases. You don't have to use any lube and that makes reloading a lot faster. In bottle neck cases you still have to lube, so there is not such a great advantage. Carbide is much harder than plain steel so the dies will last a lot longer. Most of us will never load enough bottle neck cases to wear out a set of steel dies. Bottom line; get carbide pistol dies and steel rifle dies.

July 10, 2010, 09:07 AM	#6
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"I have three or four regular non-carbide dies setting on the shelf. " Question; who has made non-carbide (or equivelent) pistol dies in the last 20 years?

July 10, 2010, 09:18 AM	#7
Farmland Senior Member Join Date: July 5, 2009 Posts: 869	Does not Lee still offer steel pistol dies? I am pretty sure RCBS still offers steel dies in certain pistol calibers too.

July 10, 2010, 02:11 PM	#9
rtpzwms Senior Member Join Date: July 6, 2010 Location: OTS Posts: 1,035	I think I might have one set of std pistol dies. It collects dust somewhere not sure where and don't care either. Does that say it all?

July 10, 2010, 06:48 PM	#11
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	The two great things about carbide for this purpose are: Carbide is dense, and it can be machined to a surface so smooth that friction is reduced over what it would be with steel. Second, carbide can be machined into a small insert, about 3/8 of an inch long, and inserted into the steel die body. that little ring of carbide is more effective at sizing a case than steel because it is ultra smooth, and will not wear against brass. Seriously, the friction between shell and insert is so low that I can't imagine a shell ever getting stuck, and in steel, that is obviously a ridiculous thing to say.

July 10, 2010, 07:52 PM	#13
oneounceload Junior member Join Date: April 18, 2008 Location: N. Central Florida Posts: 8,518	Even with carbide pistol dies, it doesn't hurt to give every tenth or so a squirt of spray lube..............helps make the carbide dies work smoothly, especially on a progressive press

July 10, 2010, 08:53 PM	#15
TXGunNut Senior Member Join Date: January 16, 2010 Location: If you have to ask... Posts: 2,860	Does that mean my non-carbide sizing dies are collecters' items? Has it really been 20 years, wncchester? Not gonna say how many sets of steel dies I replaced with carbide dies, then Dillon dies. OK, just checked. Three. 9MM, 38/357 and .45ACP. I load the 45 Colt on a single stage for some reason, first and only set is carbide. Priced Dillon's carbide .223 dies once, bought another can of Hornady's spray lube instead. Get used to it, JT. Oneounceload is always right, unless I disagree with him. Then he's almost always right. __________________ Life Member NRA, TSRA Smokeless powder is a passing fad! -Steve Garbe I hate rude behavior in a man. I won't tolerate it. -Woodrow F. Call Lonesome Dove My favorite recipes start out with a handful of used wheelweights.

July 11, 2010, 08:23 AM	#16
Uncle Buck Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2009 Location: West Central Missouri Posts: 2,592	Non-Carbide Dies The dies I have on the shelf are Lee Dies and I think I have a set of Lyman dies also. Most of these came from ebay. How hard, or how much of a pain in the butt could a little spray lube be, compared to the cost of carbide dies? Well, I now own carbide dies. Collectors items? __________________ Inside Every Bright Idea Is The 50% Probability Of A Disaster Waiting To Happen.

July 11, 2010, 01:02 PM	#18
Ozzieman Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Northern Indiana Posts: 6,117	Another thing you should consider is what type of die. If you not going to load much and your bullet selection is going to be limited, than any of the cheaper brand named carbide die will work just fine. But after loading thousands upon thousands over the last 30 years I changed my buying habit and only purchase the better grade of reloading dies. The attachment below is the Redding competition pistol dies in carbide. The main advantage is the ability to set the depth that the bullet can be seated. The difference between a micrometer gage and a screw makes the double in price easy to live with. The other item is crimp. If you’re going to reload auto rounds like 9mm or 45 ACP. Spend the money and get a taper crimp die. This make reloading autos much easier and for people starting out will take a lot of the guess work out of reloading. My other suggestion is if you belong to a range or shooting group ask around and find someone that will show you the ropes. You can see the type of equipment they use and find out what you will like or dislike without wasting a lot of money buying crap. http://www.sinclairintl.com/.aspx/pi...ie_Set__44_Mag

July 12, 2010, 01:46 AM	#19
DocAitch Member Join Date: March 16, 2010 Location: North of Baltimore Posts: 60	I purchased a set of RCBS .45 Colt dies within the last 6 months from Midway that are non carbide, unless they were sitting forgotten at the back of a shelf, I assume that they are new. DocAitch

July 12, 2010, 07:57 AM	#20
wncchester Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2002 Posts: 2,832	"Does that mean my non-carbide sizing dies are collecters' items? Has it really been 20 years, wncchester?" The transition period wasn't immediate, but it was a fairly quick fade from steel to carbide that seemed pretty well done by '90 or so. At first, the makers charged a lot more than was justified only because they could get away with it, just as they do with digital stuff now. When carbide first became available some guys jumped on board immediately but the then high prices deterred the rest of us. After the initial rush slowed, the prices started dropping and eventually got rational. Most of us changed over when carbide was finally about the same cost as steel. Most makers then droppped steel simply because there was no real justification for two production lines but steel does have an advantage for case life. Many so-called straight wall cases do have some taper but carbides instantly make them ALL truly straight walled! That is NOT good, it over works the brass and leads to early body splits. Even so, the price of brass vs. the agrivation of lubing says most of us will use carbide and accept the shorter case life. Steel sizers as collector's items? Maybe. But I don't know anyone who collects dies and doubt we could get much for our old ones. By the year of our Lord 2,110, 75 years after liberal politicians have out-lawed publically owned fire arms and the production of reloading components, ALL of our reloading tools may become collectible curios of a lost past but not yet.

July 12, 2010, 02:52 PM	#21
briandg Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2010 Posts: 5,468	I have to give credit to lee. I believe that they were the ones that finally broke the price barrier, and flooded the market with carbide, until there was just no demand left for steel. It annoys the poop out of me that carbide dies have always been at suck a premium. A die body is a die body, period. Instead of reaming, cleaning, polishing, measuring, etc, for a carbide, you bore a hole to fit the insert, and put in the insert. Big deal. Making that insert, in view of the costs of manufacture, never justified the extreme cost of carbide dies. I could buy a 90 tooth carbide saw blade, that has 90 precision cut teeth brazed to the surface of that disc, for $50 bucks, at a time when it cost almost that much just to upgrade a set of dies with a simple carbide insert. During these same periods, I talked with a guy who sold manufacturing tools. He showed me a 1" carbide cutter, with diamond inserts, and he told me that the bearing plant he would be shipping them to would eventually pay about $5 for it.

July 12, 2010, 04:17 PM	#22
brickeyee Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2004 Posts: 3,351	Anything not made on large volume costs more, and I really doubt the carbide rings for reloading dies are a very high volume product. Carbide inserts for lath tooling are cheap, unless you need a specialty one and then the price goes up quickly to painful levels. Even grooving inserts cost well over simple cutting inserts, especially for smaller grooves.

July 12, 2010, 07:45 PM	#23
mete Senior Member Join Date: June 14, 2004 Location: NY State Posts: 6,575	Dirt, especially sand can quickly wear out a carbide die !!! I always first popped out the primer then washed the cases with detergent. No worn carbide for me ! For rifle cases a very small bit of lube will make it easier to operate the press.