Rifle in JFK's Oval Office?

[BlueTrain]

Jimmy Carter anti-gun? I think he's one of only two presidents who wrote books on outdoor subjects.

[Mike Irwin]

Cater also gave the director of Treasury and ATF license to run riot against gun owners during his presidency.

Many of the blatant abuses of the Cater years helped FOPA in 1986.

[Brian Pfleuger]

According to this PDF which speaks of making a movie on Kennedy, the rifle was "a gift from visiting dignitaries." I can't find anything else about it.

http://cache.reelz.com/assets/conten...rod-design.pdf

[Brian Pfleuger]

Well there, I was curious enough that I sent an email to the Research Room of the Kennedy Presidential Library. We'll see what they say about it.

[pnac]

Oh, yeah, those were the good old days. My father's take home pay was about $75 a week for six days work, plus evenings.

That would be the equivalent of $576.20 today, according to the Minneapolis Fed.

http://www.minneapolisfed.org/

[RamItOne]

Upper left

[4V50 Gary]

Makes me wonder where the M-16 Kennedy is examining is at now.

[youngunz4life]

I'm hoping this thread continues because that is a good question(actually it wasn't a question but you catch my drift), and hopefully Brian gets a reply email sooner than later(weekend inching its way in).

[Dfariswheel]

There was a photo and a short article in a Kennedy era NRA American Rifleman magazine that showed an Army sergeant presenting JFK the M1 Rifle he bought from the DCM.
Of course, the Army had an especially nice M1 assembled for JFK.

[Amsdorf]

By the way, check out the body language between Johnson and Kennedy...

[BlueTrain]

Is that Jennings Randolph in the first picture with all the ladies? And was not Kennedy the most recent president to have seen action while in the service?

[aarondhgraham]

And was not Kennedy the most recent president to have seen action while in the service?

Nope, I don't believe so,,,
IIRC George Bush Sr. was a carrier pilot in WW-II.

I'm not positive about this but I seem to remember reading,,,
He was shot down during the Battle of Midway.

Aarond

.

[Mike Irwin]

Not during the battle of Midway. It was later, 1944 or 1945, I believe... September 1944 in an attack on Chichijima.

Gerald Ford also served on carriers in the Pacific during WW II, but I'm not sure if he was involved in combat or not.

Oh hell yeah Ford was involved in combat. He was aboard the USS Monteray, which saw LOTS of action.

Nixon was in the Navy during WW II, but I don't think that he saw combat. Nope. He was

I believe Lyndon Johnson was also in the Navy, but I don't know what his status was.

[RamItOne]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...litary_service


Bush being shot down-
During their attack, the Avengers encountered intense anti-aircraft fire; Bush's aircraft was hit by flak[7] and his engine caught on fire.[1] Despite his plane being on fire, Bush completed his attack and released bombs over his target, scoring several damaging hits.[1] With his engine afire, Bush flew several miles from the island, where he and one other crew member on the TBM Avenger bailed out of the aircraft;[7] the other man's parachute did not open.[1] It has not been determined which man bailed out with Bush[1] as both Delaney and White were killed as a result of the battle.[7] Bush waited for four hours in an inflated raft, while several fighters circled protectively overhead until he was rescued by the lifeguard submarine USS Finback.

[Rifleman1776]

I wasn't a Kennedy fan either. But, good for him for having that.
If I were President, or holding any elected office, I would have a firearm displayed. Probably a Rev. period flintlock rifle.

[carguychris]

I believe Lyndon Johnson was also in the Navy, but I don't know what his status was.

LBJ joined the Naval Reserve in 1940 and became the first Congressman to volunteer for active military service on Dec 9, 1941; he had been elected to House at that point and was serving on the Naval Affairs Committee. He was commissioned as a Lieutenant Commander (LCDR) and did a tour of duty in the Pacific inspecting naval bases and filing reports on base status, equipment stockpiles, combat readiness, etc. Basically, he served as somewhat of an unofficial attache to the Congressional committee on which he served.

IIRC during one of his base visits, he wound up on a combat mission on a USAAF B-26 Marauder along with some Army inspections officers. What happened next is disputed. At least one bomber was shot down with aircrew losses, and several other bombers took fire, but some records show that the plane carrying Johnson turned back due to mechanical problems before reaching the combat area. LBJ always claimed his plane took fire, but he was famous for not letting the truth get in the way of a good story. He was awarded the Silver Star, but none of the other aircrew aboard the airplane were awarded anything. IIRC I've read one historian describe it as "the most undeserved Silver Star in Naval history."

LBJ left active duty and rejoined the Reserve in 1942. He was promoted to Commander in 1949 and resigned from the service in 1964.

More here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyndon_...son#War_record
http://www.history.navy.mil/faqs/faq60-6.htm
http://www.b-26mhs.org/archives/manu...ilverstar.html

[Mike Irwin]

Yeah, after I posted I went and looked it up (didn't look him up in the first round as I was supposed to be on a conference call )

Sounds like while it was completely undeserved, he actually did do the war effort some good with his recommendations and later work.

[BlueTrain]

What has happened to my memory? All those Navy guys.

I guess no one's heard of Jennings Randolph.

[compdocjoe]

You can bet that rifle has long since disappeared!

[berettaprofessor]

By the way, check out the body language between Johnson and Kennedy...

That's not Johnson...Johnson isn't in any of the more recently posted pictures. Unless you were talking about the very first picture of the thread, which IS Johnson....but it's pretty typical of the pushy Johnson and more quiet/reticent Kennedy.

[Mike Irwin]

'You can bet that rifle has long since disappeared!'

Hopefully not. If it was displayed in the Oval Office I'd think it was a high visibility item and would have been noticed if it went missing.

Those items received as gifts to the president are generally considered to be the property of the United States if they come from a foreign dignitary. Certain gifts are eligible for purchase by the president/first lady,

If received from a US citizen, they are generally considered to be the property of the president but will generally go into that president's library collection.

It could have been different when Kennedy was in office as the law was apparently substantially changed in 1966.

If similar procedures were observed when Kennedy was assassinated, the rifle would either be retained in the National Archives or would be at his presidential museum in its collections.

[Mike Irwin]

In the set of four pictures that Ram It posted, the next to the last one, that's Robert McNamarra (sp?), Secretary of Defense and former Ford Motor Company "whiz kid" in the middle between the general and Kennedy.


And yes, that certainly looks like Jennings Randolph. The name tickled my memory, but I wouldn't have been able to tell you exactly who he was.

[carguychris]

In the set of four pictures that Ram It posted, the next to the last one, that's Robert McNamarra (sp?), Secretary of Defense and former Ford Motor Company "whiz kid" in the middle between the general and Kennedy.

McNamara, one "m". And the other man in the picture is Gen. Maxwell Taylor, the Chairman of the JCS under Kennedy.

[youngunz4life]

Those items received as gifts to the president are generally considered to be the property of the United States if they come from a foreign dignitary. Certain gifts are eligible for purchase by the president/first lady,

I would hazard a guess someone in the Kennedy family has possession of that firearm.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Well, that didn't take long...

Dear Mr. Pfleuger:

The rifle that hung in President Kennedy's Oval Office was a Spencer Carbine rifle. It was given to President Kennedy on his birthday, May 29, 1963 by the United States Army in recognition of President Kennedy's interest in the American soldier. The Spencer carbine rifle was one of the most popular firearms of the Civil War.

I am attaching a low resolution image of the rifle to this e-mail. I am also CCing our Audio Visual archivist, Laurie Austin as she might have a photograph of the presentation ceremony of the rifle to President Kennedy.

If you have any further questions on the rifle, please let me know.

Sincerely,



Heather L. Joines
Museum Specialist