What would you put down a .50cal 1:24 twist barrel?

Pond, James Pond · July 29, 2015, 02:11 PM

Thinking purely in terms of conicals/minies/maxiballs/REALs/roundballs etc (no sabots), what would you put down the muzzle of a 1:24 twist, 28" .50 percussion gun?

Purpose?
Misc. Let's say plinking/hunting etc, the usual general purpose type load.

I mean weights or styles that might match that faster twist.

Thx

FrontierGander · July 29, 2015, 09:59 PM

For hunting, a 250 or 300gr Thor.

Plinking, a 260-300gr harvester scorpion PT Gold.

rodwhaincamo · July 29, 2015, 10:22 PM

There's a fellow who hunts elk with a Lee .500 440 grn pistol bullet that he paper patches through his Lyman Great Plains Hunter with a 1:32" twist. He is very good with his load shooting several hundred yards.

Pond, James Pond · July 30, 2015, 02:50 AM

Should have specificied: no sabots nor powerbelts.

As yet I have found noone who sells those around here, but roundball are plenty and so are basic full-bore conicals such as those I listed in the OP

**4V50 Gary** · July 30, 2015, 08:13 AM

Conical bullet, perhaps even paper patched.

rodwhaincamo · July 30, 2015, 09:27 AM

I'm hesitant to use any undersized conicals in my rifle as they can easily move off of the charge and create problems. I knew the Lee REAL was oversized and bought a handful to try out and found my 1:48" twist Lyman did exceptionally well with them so I bought a mold.

Were you not considering it as a hunting projectile the undersized conicals wouldn't be such a big deal.

If you are seriously considering a certain rifle I'd then look to see if you could purchase various projectiles to test out.

I like casting as I'm not at anyone's mercy. And 20-something projectiles for $1 is pretty nice too! Of course I spent $100+ to be able to do it, but in the long run it doesn't take long at all to come out ahead.

I'm guessing you'd need your projectiles shipped, which would be costly. I'd certainly look into casting.

Pond, James Pond · July 30, 2015, 09:59 AM

Even if I can't find a place to shoot a BP gun, I wouldn't want to buy a gun that realistically I couldn't find viable projectiles for: you never know. The law might change, loosening the restrictions on BP so I'd like to at least know that I can get some viable projectiles from the local market.

If nothing else, this all helps me learn more about the whole BP realm...

I am thinking of casting anyway: it would be nice to finally see what a 240gr SWC can do in a .44Mag.

Jim Watson · July 30, 2015, 11:22 AM

That is a bullet twist, a heavy bullet twist.
It might work with a light load and patched ball, but I would not bet on it.
Are you looking at the Pedersoli .50 Hawken? They show the recommended bullet and it looks like something out of a .50-90 breechloader.

Look at the .45 Hawken with 47 twist compromise barrel, ok with ball or moderate bullets.

I think the Mortimer Target would suit, .54 ball, but it only comes in flint.

rodwhaincamo · July 30, 2015, 11:58 AM

If you cast you'd always have viable bullets...

You could try Hornady Great Plains bullets. Most of the muzzleloader conicals are cast only unless you included the various newer types.

Pond, James Pond · July 30, 2015, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Are you looking at the Pedersoli .50 Hawken? They show the recommended bullet and it looks like something out of a .50-90 breechloader.

Could you post a link?

Jim Watson · July 30, 2015, 01:46 PM

Here is the Pedersoli Hawken line.
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipo...es-hawken.html

I just noticed the Rocky Mountain model is a .54 with 65 twist, a good round ball gun.

The .45 x 47 is a compromise ball/bullet gun
The .50 x 24 is a bullet gun
The .54 x 65 is a round ball gun (same barrel as the Mortimer Target.)

A .54 is a nominal half ounce ball gun, 218 grains, 14 grams.
That is a pretty big ball, considered adequate for big game and military use in the mid 19th century, but it does not use up the lead as fast as that .50.

Pond, James Pond · July 30, 2015, 02:15 PM

I don't know where you got this from, though:

Quote:

They show the recommended bullet and it looks like something out of a .50-90 breechloader.

I've seen the linked page and when I click on the link to the recommended bullet, I just get a .490 roundball!

So if I got a nice 370gr Maxiball conical, is that the sort of long bullet you'd have in mind?

Jim Watson · July 30, 2015, 02:24 PM

It shows me this picture and table with the .50 bullet at 450 grains.
http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/sche...leloading.html

I am sure it is a potent hunting bullet but it is NOT authentic to the period of the rifle.

I am not an active muzzleloader and I can't be SURE that a round ball would not shoot well out of that rifle, but it would be a nonstandard combination.
Maybe somebody here has tried it.
There was the gunzine writer who tried and tried to get a Whitworth repro to shoot round balls (.451 cal 21 twist) but I don't think it ever equaled the bullet.

wogpotter · July 30, 2015, 04:19 PM

Can you get "Lee R.E.A.L." (Rifling Engaged At Loading) 320 Grain bullets there?
They should be fine.

Pond, James Pond · July 30, 2015, 04:22 PM

There are some stocked, yes.

My only concern now is that perhaps 1:24 is too serious a twist rate. Too restrictive.

In a sense it is a bit academic if I never get to shoot the rifle, but as I said earlier: things may change and it is nice to keep options open.

Perhaps 1:48 is a better choice.

Sure Shot Mc Gee · August 1, 2015, 02:57 PM

Tight twister: Something heavy no doubt. A Lee REAL of some sort. 3-400 gr. maybe. Perhaps this one seen below:

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Catego...01/2/LEE-90471

or this one perhaps seen below:

Lyman 508668 a 410 gr. chunk of cast lead. A real thump-er/ bumper if you could find one that is. Seen here:

http://www.three-peaks.net/bullet_molds.htm

Pond, James Pond · August 1, 2015, 03:09 PM

Thanks for the links. Those things are monsters!
How far do you usually have to walk before you find your shoulder after finding one of those?

All this serious bullet business does tell me that perhaps 1:24 is a bit too single-minded. As I said earlier, I think 1:48 would afford me some flexibility.

Ironic that I should be so concerned considering it'll probably be a wall-hanger!! Still, I've never bought on looks alone: for me usability has to be in the mix no matter how academic!

Sure Shot Mc Gee · August 2, 2015, 01:40 PM

Quote:

How far do you usually have to walk before you find your shoulder after finding one of those?

I don't. I shoot patched ball most of the time. When I first got into B/P rifles. I bought my rifles from Fox Ridge Outfitters long before their closing. Who also sold t/c drop-in-barrels as a store accessory item. So my rifles came to me factory stock with 1-48s twists. I simply changed my barrels out with 1-66 t/c factory Rd/ball only barrels. Quite accurate the t/c ball barrels turned out to be.

The 1-48 barrels I changed out (45-54 Hawken models) sit upright in a closet with plugged nipple snail's and (wine bottle) corked at their muzzle's. (Their bores were filled with straight 5-w motor oil.)
Not to brag but when someone like me with old frosted over eyes can shoot t/c open barrels sites and group my p/ball into 2-2-1/2" at a 100 yards all day long from both rifles. (I) see no reason to mess around in my wanting to shoot conical or sabot something heavier. BTW: Both rifles are fueled with homemade black or (Gorex 2-FFg when in a dire pinch.)

As commented earlier. 1-48 will shoot anything (other than a musket hollow base conical) reasonably accurate. Just don't expect to see >exceptional accurate is all I'm saying.

July 29, 2015, 02:11 PM	#1
Pond, James Pond Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2011 Location: Top of the Baltic stack Posts: 6,079	What would you put down a .50cal 1:24 twist barrel? Thinking purely in terms of conicals/minies/maxiballs/REALs/roundballs etc (no sabots), what would you put down the muzzle of a 1:24 twist, 28" .50 percussion gun? Purpose? Misc. Let's say plinking/hunting etc, the usual general purpose type load. I mean weights or styles that might match that faster twist. Thx __________________ When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic. Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly. Last edited by Pond, James Pond; July 30, 2015 at 02:51 AM. Reason: clarifying which projectiles are readily available to me

July 29, 2015, 09:59 PM	#2
FrontierGander Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2009 Location: Boncarbo,Colorado Posts: 651	For hunting, a 250 or 300gr Thor. Plinking, a 260-300gr harvester scorpion PT Gold. __________________ https://buckskinsbp.blogspot.com/

July 30, 2015, 02:50 AM	#4
Pond, James Pond Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2011 Location: Top of the Baltic stack Posts: 6,079	Should have specificied: no sabots nor powerbelts. As yet I have found noone who sells those around here, but roundball are plenty and so are basic full-bore conicals such as those I listed in the OP __________________ When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic. Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.

July 30, 2015, 08:13 AM	#5
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,832	Conical bullet, perhaps even paper patched. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

July 30, 2015, 09:59 AM	#7
Pond, James Pond Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2011 Location: Top of the Baltic stack Posts: 6,079	Even if I can't find a place to shoot a BP gun, I wouldn't want to buy a gun that realistically I couldn't find viable projectiles for: you never know. The law might change, loosening the restrictions on BP so I'd like to at least know that I can get some viable projectiles from the local market. If nothing else, this all helps me learn more about the whole BP realm... I am thinking of casting anyway: it would be nice to finally see what a 240gr SWC can do in a .44Mag. __________________ When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic. Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.

July 29, 2015, 10:22 PM	#3
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	There's a fellow who hunts elk with a Lee .500 440 grn pistol bullet that he paper patches through his Lyman Great Plains Hunter with a 1:32" twist. He is very good with his load shooting several hundred yards.

July 30, 2015, 09:27 AM	#6
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	I'm hesitant to use any undersized conicals in my rifle as they can easily move off of the charge and create problems. I knew the Lee REAL was oversized and bought a handful to try out and found my 1:48" twist Lyman did exceptionally well with them so I bought a mold. Were you not considering it as a hunting projectile the undersized conicals wouldn't be such a big deal. If you are seriously considering a certain rifle I'd then look to see if you could purchase various projectiles to test out. I like casting as I'm not at anyone's mercy. And 20-something projectiles for $1 is pretty nice too! Of course I spent $100+ to be able to do it, but in the long run it doesn't take long at all to come out ahead. I'm guessing you'd need your projectiles shipped, which would be costly. I'd certainly look into casting.

July 30, 2015, 11:22 AM	#8
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	That is a bullet twist, a heavy bullet twist. It might work with a light load and patched ball, but I would not bet on it. Are you looking at the Pedersoli .50 Hawken? They show the recommended bullet and it looks like something out of a .50-90 breechloader. Look at the .45 Hawken with 47 twist compromise barrel, ok with ball or moderate bullets. I think the Mortimer Target would suit, .54 ball, but it only comes in flint.

July 30, 2015, 11:58 AM	#9
rodwhaincamo Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 1,246	If you cast you'd always have viable bullets... You could try Hornady Great Plains bullets. Most of the muzzleloader conicals are cast only unless you included the various newer types.

July 30, 2015, 01:46 PM	#11
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	Here is the Pedersoli Hawken line. http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/tipo...es-hawken.html I just noticed the Rocky Mountain model is a .54 with 65 twist, a good round ball gun. The .45 x 47 is a compromise ball/bullet gun The .50 x 24 is a bullet gun The .54 x 65 is a round ball gun (same barrel as the Mortimer Target.) A .54 is a nominal half ounce ball gun, 218 grains, 14 grams. That is a pretty big ball, considered adequate for big game and military use in the mid 19th century, but it does not use up the lead as fast as that .50.

July 30, 2015, 02:24 PM	#13
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,539	It shows me this picture and table with the .50 bullet at 450 grains. http://www.davide-pedersoli.com/sche...leloading.html I am sure it is a potent hunting bullet but it is NOT authentic to the period of the rifle. I am not an active muzzleloader and I can't be SURE that a round ball would not shoot well out of that rifle, but it would be a nonstandard combination. Maybe somebody here has tried it. There was the gunzine writer who tried and tried to get a Whitworth repro to shoot round balls (.451 cal 21 twist) but I don't think it ever equaled the bullet.

July 30, 2015, 04:19 PM	#14
wogpotter Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2004 Posts: 4,811	Can you get "Lee R.E.A.L." (Rifling Engaged At Loading) 320 Grain bullets there? They should be fine. __________________ Allan Quatermain: “Automatic rifles. Who in God's name has automatic rifles”? Elderly Hunter: “That's dashed unsporting. Probably Belgium.”

July 30, 2015, 04:22 PM	#15
Pond, James Pond Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2011 Location: Top of the Baltic stack Posts: 6,079	There are some stocked, yes. My only concern now is that perhaps 1:24 is too serious a twist rate. Too restrictive. In a sense it is a bit academic if I never get to shoot the rifle, but as I said earlier: things may change and it is nice to keep options open. Perhaps 1:48 is a better choice. __________________ When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic. Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.

August 1, 2015, 02:57 PM	#16
Sure Shot Mc Gee Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2012 Location: Minnesota Posts: 3,876	Tight twister: Something heavy no doubt. A Lee REAL of some sort. 3-400 gr. maybe. Perhaps this one seen below: http://www.trackofthewolf.com/Catego...01/2/LEE-90471 or this one perhaps seen below: Lyman 508668 a 410 gr. chunk of cast lead. A real thump-er/ bumper if you could find one that is. Seen here: http://www.three-peaks.net/bullet_molds.htm

August 1, 2015, 03:09 PM	#17
Pond, James Pond Senior Member Join Date: July 12, 2011 Location: Top of the Baltic stack Posts: 6,079	Thanks for the links. Those things are monsters! How far do you usually have to walk before you find your shoulder after finding one of those? All this serious bullet business does tell me that perhaps 1:24 is a bit too single-minded. As I said earlier, I think 1:48 would afford me some flexibility. Ironic that I should be so concerned considering it'll probably be a wall-hanger!! Still, I've never bought on looks alone: for me usability has to be in the mix no matter how academic! __________________ When the right to effective self-defence is denied, that right to self-defence which remains is essentially symbolic. Freedom: Please enjoy responsibly.