A question/request to quickload users out there.

[Pond, James Pond]

Yesterday I spoke to the Quickload supplier in the UK to see if they'd ship to Estonia. They would.

I also asked them some questions about the way it works and now I'm sold. I will just wait until I have a bit more spare cash and I'm ordering!!

In the meaning time, I'd like some calculation help.

My SD ammo for my carry gun is S&B 147gr WC .38Spls.

The performance data for those is:
V0 700fps, E0 160ft/lb. This data is from a 7.5 inch barrel

I reload using 125gr, plated, truncated cone bullets over N320 giving me velocity of about 780fps. To do this I use 5.2gr in a S&B case and a Fiocchi SP primer. This is from a 2.5" barrel.

What I'd need from Quickload owners is an idea of the charge and resulting velocity needed to reproduce (approximately) the recoil of my SD load in my practice load.

This would mean I can keep acclimatising myself to the performance of my chosen SD load without the associated price!!

Can you estimate this with the data provided?

[GJSchulze]

First, that's a really light load for a 125 bullet if it's only pushing it at 780 fps. That isn't even minimum power factor for IDPA or USPSA.

Anyway, using a lighter bullet means that even if your recoil momentum is the same the impulse is more. IOW, a snappier recoil.

You don't say if your SD bullet is lead, plated or jacketed or are wad cutters always lead?

I gotta say, that for a SD load, that's very light. You need another 200 to 300 fps or more IMO.

I'll run it when I get chance.

[Brian Pfleuger]

If you're looking primarily at straight-walled pistol cartridges, I would not be terribly interested in QuickLoad.

[Pond, James Pond]

I gotta say, that for a SD load, that's very light. You need another 200 to 300 fps or more IMO.

Problem is that I get the impression this order of velocity increase would be a big ask from a snub. 1000fps from a 2.5" .38... Isn't that pushing +P at the very least (if not magnum)?
More oomph than my little Astra is designed for, I fear...

If you're looking primarily at straight-walled pistol cartridges, I would not be terribly interested in QuickLoad.

The biggest appeal of Quickload for me is to give me good approximations of performance whilst reducing the risks of misjudgments on my part.

The component combinations I have to work with due to either supply or cost constraints are unheard of in loading manuals and I am having to piece together likely start/max loads based on looking at data for "pretty similar" bullets.
No manual has data for VV N110 with Fiocchi primers, in S&B cases crimping PRVI jacketed bullets...

Take my 300gr .44 load. Luckily I had good advice on here as to the load to look at, but I had to hunt around the net to see if anyone had done something similar and I had to make best guesses as to the best OAL, mostly because it looked as though I'd have a compressed load when I peered in the charged case.

Quickload would allow me to enter the parameters and see how the pressure mounts. If in the red I could just enter in new OALs or charges till the predictions are well in the green before doing load work-ups. All this is even more pertinent to my .308 loads.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by Pond, James Pond

Quickload would allow me to enter the parameters and see how the pressure mounts. If in the red I could just enter in new OALs or charges till the predictions are well in the green before doing load work-ups. All this is even more pertinent to my .308 loads.

For your .308 loads, it's worth it, no other cartridges considered.

I absolutely love QuickLoad and sing it's praises regularly on this forum but I don't give it much credence with straight-cartridges. It's better than a Wild Ass Guess but I'd much rather have official load data. It's "ball park", at best.

[GJSchulze]

I absolutely love QuickLoad and sing it's praises regularly on this forum but I don't give it much credence with straight-cartridges

Brian, I've heard people say that its pressure results are off for straight walled cases. I have never heard anyone say why, which leads me to wonder if they are just repeating what they've heard. I've never heard someone say it's off for everything. I found that the velocity was pretty close for my 9mm load.

My personal opinion is that QL itself is not inaccurate, but that all (most?) straight walled cases are much smaller than rifle cases and therefore are more sensitive to changes. I've measured 9mm cases both in length and H2O "weight" (volume) and the capacity varies, either because it's hard to consistently measure it or because the case size just varies. Probably both. Also, seating depth varies; I can never get my OAL any closer than +- .05, so a .01 range. All those contribute to variation in results. Still, it's ball park, and a pretty small ball park at that.

James, I need to know the weight of your gun for recoil. I also need more info about the bullet. How long is it, what brand is it, and what OAL do you use? Is the case simply a .38 special?

[salvadore]

James, I worked up a load of a soft alloy HP 358156 using 4grs of Bullseye as per Lyman's 4th ed. cast bullet hand book. It is for my 2" Colt Cobra. It stopped in the fifth gallon water jug. I had to extrapulate a load for the wadcutter. I haven't had a chance to chronograph either but believe I'm getting 850fps with the WC from my 4" Colt Marshal.

[Brian Pfleuger]

Originally Posted by GJSchulze

Brian, I've heard people say that its pressure results are off for straight walled cases. I have never heard anyone say why, which leads me to wonder if they are just repeating what they've heard. I've never heard someone say it's off for everything. I found that the velocity was pretty close for my 9mm load.

I've never heard anyone says it's off for everything (or correct for everything) either.

It says right in the manual that QuickLOAD over-estimates the efficiency of straight-walled cartridges. It can be used and it can be accurate but it's no where near as valuable as it is for bottle-neck rifle cartridges.

[Pond, James Pond]

James, I need to know the weight of your gun for recoil. I also need more info about the bullet. How long is it, what brand is it, and what OAL do you use? Is the case simply a .38 special?

The cartridge is the factory WC load for .38Spl. I can check the OAL and gun weight a bit later.

I'm getting 850fps with the WC from my 4" Colt Marshal.

That is a mean looking WC!! Mine come seated flush with the case mouth making it a big leap from case to forcing cone.

[GJSchulze]

factory WC load for .38Spl.

I'm sorry, but I don't know what that is. I only shoot an XDm 9mm with FMJ-TC. If you are reloading, then what does "factory" refer to?

[Pond, James Pond]

If you are reloading, then what does "factory" refer to?

I am not reloading my SD round. It is bought, having been produced by Sellier and Bellot.

I want to load practice rounds that approximate my factory ("over the counter" bought) rounds without the relatively high costs. Buying the S&B WCs costs about twice the amount I can load the 125gr plated bullets for.

The S&B cartridge data is here. Metric, I'm afraid.

My Astra's weight is 1lb, 5.9oz.

[Jim243]

My SD ammo for my carry gun is S&B 147gr WC .38Spls

James, you will not get the same results with the 125 grain bullets you use for practice. Recoil will be different as well as point of impact no mater what you do. Magtech makes some very nice 158 grain semi jacketed bullets that won't break the bank, and will give you closer results to the S&B 147 grain ones. As a mater of fact, I would not have any problem using the Magtech bullets for your self defense load instead of the S&B.

Jim

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/165...ProductFinding

[Pond, James Pond]

I realise it will not be the same exactly, just something that feels similar would be good enough. Point of Impact is not something I had considered and worth noting.

As for the SD round itself, I'd rather not handload an SD cartridge. I don't think I would want that held against me if ever the worst were to happen.

[GJSchulze]

Recoil will be different as well as point of impact

Why would point of impact be different, especially at SD distances of less than 10 yds.?

[Jim Watson]

If you can safely increase the velocity of those 125 grain bullets to 825 fps, you will match the power factor of a 147 at 700.
I see that you are already at the maximum load for N320 and a 125 grain plated bullet, though.

A sensitive hand might find some difference in the FELT recoil, but the Newtonian momentum balance would be the same.

[Pond, James Pond]

I see that you are already at the maximum load for N320 and a 125 grain plated bullet, though.

Really? Hmmm, yeah, I suppose they are. One of the pitfalls of having to piece together load data for one's available components. (However that max load is only approximate as my bullets are not listed. I used FP lead as a guide.)

I'd loaded 5.2 and 5.3 with similar velocity and no pressure signs whatsoever. Very mild cartridges to shoot.

I've just loaded about 180 at 5.3, given my testing results.....
Dear Reloading Deity: please tell me I don't need to pull all of those....

I had had problems with full ignition from the snub in the past, so i erred toward a stronger load with a 3/4 turn crimp as per my testing... the heavier crimp had yielded more consistent results than deeper-seating.

Will need to try those loads out. Today, perhaps.
I truth, I am not particularly concerned given prior testing, but will keep a close eye on the results

[Pond, James Pond]

Shot one. No disasters. Shot five more looking at accuracy. Ok but I recall 5 .2 had been better.
Then I shot alternate handloads and wadcutters, switching POA to see how each grouped while comparing felt recoil. WCs were softer shooting and more accurate. My loads louder, snappier and with significant muzzle flash. They were also less accurate.
On extraction none would just fall out with gravity but the elector rod had zero resistance.
All in all I'll shoot the ones I've loaded but the next catch will drop to 5.2.