last ditch jap gun safe to shoot?

rbf420 · February 14, 2010, 02:24 PM

i know these last ditch rifles are crude so my question then is how safe are they to shoot?

kilimanjaro · February 14, 2010, 02:46 PM

Some 'last ditch' rifles have merely cosmetic flaws and lack of finish work, but definitely take it to a gunsmith and have it headspaced and function-tested. Until then, keep it to conversation piece status.

young mosin · February 14, 2010, 03:09 PM

they should be safe to shoot. just very rushed and ugly looking

tater134 · February 14, 2010, 04:16 PM

All last ditch rifles except for the ones marked "emergency use" are considered safe to shoot.The emergency use rifles are extremely rare and can easily be distinguished from other last ditch t99s because there will be a different receiver marking in place of the mum.

James K · February 14, 2010, 09:24 PM

Hi, tater134,

I have never seen any Japanese rifle marked "Emergency Use." Could you draw or describe the Japanese characters that were used on those.

Perhaps there is some confusion with training rifles, which were not "for emergency" but were never intended for firing live ammunition.

A Japanese rifle that appears to be a Type 38 or a Type 99 and does not have the normal model markings and either a "mum" or a ground area might be a training rifle. These were meant for training in the equivalent of our High School ROTC and were made for firing only blanks. Some are marked "Blank cartridges only" in Japanese, but none of mine are marked at all. The barrels are normally bored so large that they are not dangerous with live ammo, but use is certainly NOT recommended. The receivers are cast iron, the barrels are made in two pieces, and the bolts often have small or no locking lugs.

Jim

tater134 · February 14, 2010, 10:01 PM

Heres a link to photos of one I found through a quick google search.

http://www.japanesecollector.com/app...otoid=32860671

This is only the second one Ive seen in photos.I believe the pictured rifle belongs to a collector in PA and according to what Ive read about these there are fewer than 20 known examples.I didnt even know they existed until recently.

**4V50 Gary** · February 14, 2010, 11:27 PM

Hi everyone,

I sent a link to that photo to a friend in Japan. I'll share her response when it comes in.

Gary

**4V50 Gary** · February 15, 2010, 08:10 AM

Quote:

The word on the rifle is pronounced and written in English as OU.
It has several meanings in this Kanji but I think, in this case,
"Respond" would be a good translation for this word.
If there's problem; if other people felt strange, just let me know.

I think there's something lost in the translation and I'll write her for the other meanings of OU.

Tom2 · February 15, 2010, 07:53 PM

I would be sure the bolt matches the gun before any kind of firing, if the bolt is the correct one for the gun, you can maybe assume to some degree that the headspace is correct, but still you might want to check that aspect. Just be sure of what you have there. IMO the best ones to shoot would be earlier production rifles with the chromed bores(type99). I know there were issues with surrendered Mausers having mixed matched bolts, but that might not even matter if the headspace is fine. The same might have happened with Japanese rifles, gun in this pile, bolts in this pile, grab one of each and move on.....

**4V50 Gary** · February 15, 2010, 08:07 PM

Here's her reply.

Quote:

OU's other meaning is that accept, agree, answer, similar to, and so on. It depends on how it is used in the sentence.

James K · February 15, 2010, 09:29 PM

That rifle is interesting, and I have never seen one before. It appears to be a combination of old parts and newly made crude parts. The bolt handle seems to indicate an earlier bolt, and the stock is decent, better than the barrel or bands. The Germans did much the same thing, factories throwing together previously rejected and trash heap parts with new production. The ejector/bolt stop is neat; crude, but probably effective.

I have no idea what the Japanese symbol means, but just a thought that the term "response" could mean response to an emergency (US invasion) so the "emergency" translation could be accurate enough. I don't think the meaning would be "use only in an emergency it might blow up" but more likely "our response to a national emergency". All of that is, of course, purest supposition.

Jim

Alaska · February 26, 2010, 01:40 PM

I have an Arisaka that is supposed to be a last ditch rifle and a don't shoot warning. It has a peep sight in front of the receiver and no cleaning rod or place for a cleaning rod. The butt plate is wood and there is one hole in the receiver. The bore is shiny after i got the grease out of it. The bolt cover is still there and the bolt handle is plum shaped. The mum was ground off before i got it. I tracked the rifle to the factory but don't remember what it was. I have not tried to fire this rifle since the warning of blown up receivers. Does any body have any ideas about firing safety?

young mosin · February 26, 2010, 05:04 PM

all i have to say is get it checked by a gun smith. it may be a EMERGENCY ONLY model or just a very late last ditch.

James K · February 26, 2010, 08:01 PM

I have a so-called "last ditch" just as Alaska describes, and have fired it. Not only didn't it blow up, it shot 2" groups at 100 yds. Hardly a piece of junk or worthless, just a rifle pared down to the bare bones minimum. I am glad Americans did not have to invade Japan and face those "junk" rifles.

Jim

Gunplummer · March 17, 2010, 02:05 PM

I never saw a picture of that before either. I have seen one that had a cast receiver and was a really late design. It had an oversize receiver ring and the bolt locked into the barrel. It was not a school gun, but a real last of the ditches gun. It was quite a while back and I don't remember if it had markings on it or not. As for firing last ditch rifles, stay away from Korean and Chinese made models. Some of the machining on them is really sad looking.

February 14, 2010, 02:24 PM	#1
rbf420 Senior Member Join Date: August 1, 2009 Posts: 166	last ditch jap gun safe to shoot? i know these last ditch rifles are crude so my question then is how safe are they to shoot?

February 14, 2010, 03:09 PM	#3
young mosin Member Join Date: February 1, 2010 Location: missouri Posts: 96	they should be safe to shoot. just very rushed and ugly looking Last edited by young mosin; February 14, 2010 at 03:20 PM.

February 14, 2010, 11:27 PM	#7
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,841	Hi everyone, I sent a link to that photo to a friend in Japan. I'll share her response when it comes in. Gary __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

February 15, 2010, 07:53 PM	#9
Tom2 Senior Member Join Date: June 23, 2004 Location: Ohio Posts: 5,676	I would be sure the bolt matches the gun before any kind of firing, if the bolt is the correct one for the gun, you can maybe assume to some degree that the headspace is correct, but still you might want to check that aspect. Just be sure of what you have there. IMO the best ones to shoot would be earlier production rifles with the chromed bores(type99). I know there were issues with surrendered Mausers having mixed matched bolts, but that might not even matter if the headspace is fine. The same might have happened with Japanese rifles, gun in this pile, bolts in this pile, grab one of each and move on..... __________________ Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!

February 26, 2010, 01:40 PM	#12
Alaska Junior Member Join Date: February 25, 2010 Location: Greenville S.C. Posts: 3	Arisaka I have an Arisaka that is supposed to be a last ditch rifle and a don't shoot warning. It has a peep sight in front of the receiver and no cleaning rod or place for a cleaning rod. The butt plate is wood and there is one hole in the receiver. The bore is shiny after i got the grease out of it. The bolt cover is still there and the bolt handle is plum shaped. The mum was ground off before i got it. I tracked the rifle to the factory but don't remember what it was. I have not tried to fire this rifle since the warning of blown up receivers. Does any body have any ideas about firing safety?

February 14, 2010, 02:46 PM	#2
kilimanjaro Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2009 Posts: 3,963	Some 'last ditch' rifles have merely cosmetic flaws and lack of finish work, but definitely take it to a gunsmith and have it headspaced and function-tested. Until then, keep it to conversation piece status.

February 14, 2010, 04:16 PM	#4
tater134 Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2009 Location: NE,PA Posts: 390	All last ditch rifles except for the ones marked "emergency use" are considered safe to shoot.The emergency use rifles are extremely rare and can easily be distinguished from other last ditch t99s because there will be a different receiver marking in place of the mum.

February 14, 2010, 09:24 PM	#5
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Hi, tater134, I have never seen any Japanese rifle marked "Emergency Use." Could you draw or describe the Japanese characters that were used on those. Perhaps there is some confusion with training rifles, which were not "for emergency" but were never intended for firing live ammunition. A Japanese rifle that appears to be a Type 38 or a Type 99 and does not have the normal model markings and either a "mum" or a ground area might be a training rifle. These were meant for training in the equivalent of our High School ROTC and were made for firing only blanks. Some are marked "Blank cartridges only" in Japanese, but none of mine are marked at all. The barrels are normally bored so large that they are not dangerous with live ammo, but use is certainly NOT recommended. The receivers are cast iron, the barrels are made in two pieces, and the bolts often have small or no locking lugs. Jim

February 14, 2010, 10:01 PM	#6
tater134 Senior Member Join Date: August 22, 2009 Location: NE,PA Posts: 390	Heres a link to photos of one I found through a quick google search. http://www.japanesecollector.com/app...otoid=32860671 This is only the second one Ive seen in photos.I believe the pictured rifle belongs to a collector in PA and according to what Ive read about these there are fewer than 20 known examples.I didnt even know they existed until recently.

February 15, 2010, 09:29 PM	#11
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	That rifle is interesting, and I have never seen one before. It appears to be a combination of old parts and newly made crude parts. The bolt handle seems to indicate an earlier bolt, and the stock is decent, better than the barrel or bands. The Germans did much the same thing, factories throwing together previously rejected and trash heap parts with new production. The ejector/bolt stop is neat; crude, but probably effective. I have no idea what the Japanese symbol means, but just a thought that the term "response" could mean response to an emergency (US invasion) so the "emergency" translation could be accurate enough. I don't think the meaning would be "use only in an emergency it might blow up" but more likely "our response to a national emergency". All of that is, of course, purest supposition. Jim

February 26, 2010, 05:04 PM	#13
young mosin Member Join Date: February 1, 2010 Location: missouri Posts: 96	all i have to say is get it checked by a gun smith. it may be a EMERGENCY ONLY model or just a very late last ditch.

February 26, 2010, 08:01 PM	#14
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	I have a so-called "last ditch" just as Alaska describes, and have fired it. Not only didn't it blow up, it shot 2" groups at 100 yds. Hardly a piece of junk or worthless, just a rifle pared down to the bare bones minimum. I am glad Americans did not have to invade Japan and face those "junk" rifles. Jim

March 17, 2010, 02:05 PM	#15
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Last ditch I never saw a picture of that before either. I have seen one that had a cast receiver and was a really late design. It had an oversize receiver ring and the bolt locked into the barrel. It was not a school gun, but a real last of the ditches gun. It was quite a while back and I don't remember if it had markings on it or not. As for firing last ditch rifles, stay away from Korean and Chinese made models. Some of the machining on them is really sad looking.