New 870 20" smooth Bore barrel DRS at the Patterning board Bird shot a good riot Ld ?

Master Blaster · June 18, 2002, 08:40 AM

I took out my new 870 with the 20" Deer rifle sighted smooth bore barrel on saturday. Went to Omelanden park and tried it out on the patterning board. The patterning board is a 36" wide roll of butcher paper that pulls down in a metal frame and clips at the bottom, giving you a new sheet 36" X 6' long.

I fired 3 2 3/4" #7.5 shot shells at 20 yards. The wads hit to the point of aim holing the paper. I went up close and saw that the entire length of the paper was filled with little holes.
This surprised me since I did not realize the shot would spread that much at 20 yards. The large holes produced by the wad hit to point of aim for the rifle sights.

I then moved back and fired a couple more at 30 and 40 yards, lots of little holes.

In a riot situation this would be a good load cause it would get everybodies head down.

So thats my saturday experience, next week I will try my hand at trap $2 for 25 birds. i am going to use AA target loads with #9 shot.

Is bird shot a good crowd control weapon for a riot situation or do the police just use buckshot?

Al Thompson · June 18, 2002, 12:27 PM

Supposedly in the old days they would shoot into the mob. Not these days however.

If I were you, I'd also try out some buckshot. See where it patterns for a HD SG.

CWL · June 18, 2002, 03:06 PM

You wouldn't want 10-20 wounded people all pointing you out in court, positively identifying you as the reckless person who opened-up on their "peaceful protest" with a shotgun.

Dave McC · June 18, 2002, 06:38 PM

Move up to 10 yards and note the difference.

Also, Md DOC gave up on bird shot for riot control after a few dozen lawsuits. We used to practice skip shooting, banking the shot off the pavement to "Encourage" the inmates to comply.

I'm not planning on suppressing any riots these days, since I'm a private citizen now. If, for some reason, I have to defend the 'hood, I'll go with 00.

labgrade · June 19, 2002, 02:08 AM

"We used to practice skip shooting, banking the shot off the pavement to "Encourage" the inmates to comply.'

We were "taught" something very similar using M16s against those on The Ramp (when doing the USAF "protect the assets" bit). Figuring that some of us could actually hit the target, most considered this method somewhat silly.

Always figure that if you're justified shooting anyone at all, you are justified in killing them - regardless of the end result, the idea is to stop (besides that "No Sir, I shot to live" quote).

#7-1/2, 9, etc. unless employed at close-in distances, wounds & isn't likely to stop other than "eye-shots."

Always good to pattern different varieties of shot to know what yours'll do when & where, but do try it again with some bit larger sized loadings. & a box or so of various slugs is always a great idea for that "all 'round" shooter ....

Master Blaster · June 19, 2002, 07:56 AM

Thats a good point CWL. If the SHTF scenario with rioters and burning molotovs ever came to pass, it would be better to make an example out of the guy holding the burning bottle, than to piss off all the other drunk stoned rioters with a little birdshot.

I was just thinking about the non lethal effect on a crowd, and how the police might have used what they call a RIOT GUN.
The thought only occurred to me when I saw the effect on the patterning board. I never realized how much the shot could spread even at 20 yards.

So my conclusion is that #7.5 is the smallest shot I would use in home defense, and only then under distances of 10 yards / 25 feet.

Thanks for the replies

June 18, 2002, 08:40 AM	#1
Master Blaster Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: One of the original 13 Colonies Posts: 2,281	New 870 20" smooth Bore barrel DRS at the Patterning board Bird shot a good riot Ld ? I took out my new 870 with the 20" Deer rifle sighted smooth bore barrel on saturday. Went to Omelanden park and tried it out on the patterning board. The patterning board is a 36" wide roll of butcher paper that pulls down in a metal frame and clips at the bottom, giving you a new sheet 36" X 6' long. I fired 3 2 3/4" #7.5 shot shells at 20 yards. The wads hit to the point of aim holing the paper. I went up close and saw that the entire length of the paper was filled with little holes. This surprised me since I did not realize the shot would spread that much at 20 yards. The large holes produced by the wad hit to point of aim for the rifle sights. I then moved back and fired a couple more at 30 and 40 yards, lots of little holes. In a riot situation this would be a good load cause it would get everybodies head down. So thats my saturday experience, next week I will try my hand at trap $2 for 25 birds. i am going to use AA target loads with #9 shot. Is bird shot a good crowd control weapon for a riot situation or do the police just use buckshot?

June 18, 2002, 12:27 PM	#2
Al Thompson Staff Alumnus Join Date: May 2, 1999 Location: South Carolina Posts: 3,611	Supposedly in the old days they would shoot into the mob. Not these days however. If I were you, I'd also try out some buckshot. See where it patterns for a HD SG. __________________ http://www.scfirearms.org/

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June 18, 2002, 03:06 PM	#3
CWL Senior Member Join Date: May 23, 2001 Location: Bay Area, CA Posts: 1,576	You wouldn't want 10-20 wounded people all pointing you out in court, positively identifying you as the reckless person who opened-up on their "peaceful protest" with a shotgun.

June 18, 2002, 06:38 PM	#4
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Move up to 10 yards and note the difference. Also, Md DOC gave up on bird shot for riot control after a few dozen lawsuits. We used to practice skip shooting, banking the shot off the pavement to "Encourage" the inmates to comply. I'm not planning on suppressing any riots these days, since I'm a private citizen now. If, for some reason, I have to defend the 'hood, I'll go with 00.

June 19, 2002, 02:08 AM	#5
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	"We used to practice skip shooting, banking the shot off the pavement to "Encourage" the inmates to comply.' We were "taught" something very similar using M16s against those on The Ramp (when doing the USAF "protect the assets" bit). Figuring that some of us could actually hit the target, most considered this method somewhat silly. Always figure that if you're justified shooting anyone at all, you are justified in killing them - regardless of the end result, the idea is to stop (besides that "No Sir, I shot to live" quote). #7-1/2, 9, etc. unless employed at close-in distances, wounds & isn't likely to stop other than "eye-shots." Always good to pattern different varieties of shot to know what yours'll do when & where, but do try it again with some bit larger sized loadings. & a box or so of various slugs is always a great idea for that "all 'round" shooter ....

June 19, 2002, 07:56 AM	#6
Master Blaster Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: One of the original 13 Colonies Posts: 2,281	Thats a good point CWL. If the SHTF scenario with rioters and burning molotovs ever came to pass, it would be better to make an example out of the guy holding the burning bottle, than to piss off all the other drunk stoned rioters with a little birdshot. I was just thinking about the non lethal effect on a crowd, and how the police might have used what they call a RIOT GUN. The thought only occurred to me when I saw the effect on the patterning board. I never realized how much the shot could spread even at 20 yards. So my conclusion is that #7.5 is the smallest shot I would use in home defense, and only then under distances of 10 yards / 25 feet. Thanks for the replies