methods of training when real firearms are not available?

Kimio · May 28, 2015, 10:38 AM

I'm going to be out of the country for the next couple years in a country that prohibits the ownership of personal firearms.

That said, I'd like to know if there is any real way that I can keep my skills as sharp as I can despite this. I think air soft is still legal where I'm going as well as paint ball, so I was considering doing that. Nothing comes close to actual trigger time at the range though I imagine.

EDIT: To specify what country I'll be going to, I'll be going to Japan

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

kraigwy · May 28, 2015, 11:52 AM

Practice point shooting:

Draw you hand from how ever you carry, pointing your index finger.

We all know that we're suppose to keep the finger off the trigger until ready to shoot. This safety tidbit helps in point shooting. When drawing a pistol the trigger finger lays along the slide, POINTING, when drawing a revolver the finger lays under the cylinder, POINTING.

In my CCW classes I spend a great deal of time having he students draw and point without a firearm. You'd be surprised how that helps your point shooting.

Practice you presentation speed:

You defiantly don't want to use a gun for this. it does require a partner.

Have your partner stand close with his arms bent at the elbow, shoulder width apart. Hands extended. When he sees you start to draw, he is suppose to slap his hands together before you get your pointed finger up to his hands. If in slapping any part of your hand, you won.

You'd be surprised how easy it is to draw and beat the guy slapping his hand. If you cant do it, then you should re-evaluate your method of carry.

Shoot - Don't Shoot:

This exercise is good for active shooter situations where you are hunkered down waiting for either the bandit or responding officers to pop around the corner. Again you need a partner.

You hunker down in a corner ready to draw. Your partner pops around the corner, but you don't know if he has his gun (pointed hand) or empty closed hand. If he has a would be gun (representing the bandit) you need to draw and point, if he doesn't have his would be gun (representing a first responder), you produce empty hands.

These are good drill whether or not you are visiting a gun free area or not.

**4V50 Gary** · May 28, 2015, 12:33 PM

Recall there was a Japanese Olympic winner who never fired a real gun until he participated in the Olympics. He practiced with an airgun.

manta49 · May 28, 2015, 01:02 PM

Fair play for keeping up the training up, some good suggestion posted. Personally if I was going abroad firearms training would be the last thing on my mind. PS Be careful drawing a pretend handgun and pointing no one sees you, they might think you have lost the plot.

aarondhgraham · May 28, 2015, 01:59 PM

Airsoft guns, Air guns, or Paintball,,,
Those seem to be the only options available.

Aarond

.

Slopemeno · May 28, 2015, 05:27 PM

Paintball- if you take it seriously- can be a great skill builder. Airguns too.

James K · May 28, 2015, 08:40 PM

Paintball is fine for "playing war" but it is a bit limited for practicing SD and other handgun skills, plus the residue makes it less than ideal for indoor practice. My recommendation would be to buy an air/CO2 gun that is as close as possible to the real gun you use at home. There are air/CO2 guns that mimic revolvers and auto pistols. They may not be perfect, but will help keep your hand in and usually are quiet enough to be used in detached homes or basements without disturbing others. A light bullet trap or even a wood backstop will stop the pellet.

Some countries that ban or heavily restrict ownership of firearms still allow ranges and rental guns and gun clubs; a few ban even tools that resemble guns. So you may have to actually be there before you can decide what you can do, if anything, to keep up your skills.

Jim

Dragline45 · May 29, 2015, 03:17 PM

Umarex makes airsoft copies of certain guns that are pretty darn close to the originals right down to the trigger pull. Plenty of dry fire practice with them and popping beer cans in the backyard will help hone your skills. Also this might be a good excuse to pick up archery if you haven't already.

http://www.umarexusa.com/cart.php?m=...istIds=&venID=

Sharkbite · May 29, 2015, 04:11 PM

You dont say what country you will be in, so it's hard to give solid advice.

Generally, airsoft guns have come a LONG WAY, becoming identical in fit and function to the firearms they mimic

If they are allowed where you are going that would be my pick.

Glenn E. Meyer · May 29, 2015, 04:56 PM

SIRT pistols.

Kimio · May 29, 2015, 05:04 PM

I'll be going to Japan to be specific, pretty sure that even Airsoft pistols are heavily regulated there.

Dragline45 · May 29, 2015, 08:04 PM

Quote:

I'll be going to Japan to be specific, pretty sure that even Airsoft pistols are heavily regulated there.

Airsoft is very big in Japan. Chris Costa just went there recently and actually participated in an Airsoft event.

Kimio · May 29, 2015, 09:03 PM

Looking at where I'm going, it looks like I will not be allowed to own an airsoft gun, though I may need to verify that.

EDIT: Yep, I'm most definitely NOT allowed to own let alone really handle one. Sadly.

Dragline45 · May 29, 2015, 10:57 PM

You sure about that, I know it's Wikipedia but check out the entry for Airsoft legality by country.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_i..._airsoft#Japan

Also check out this thread

http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/to...guns-in-japan/

When browsing guns on youtube I will often come across vids from Japan of people showing off their replica airsoft guns.

Kimio · May 29, 2015, 11:15 PM

It's not so much Japanese law, but more so military law that prohibits me from having one sadly.

DA/SA Fan · May 31, 2015, 01:29 PM

What about one of those plastic laser target systems? Aside from that spend time thinking. Run scenarios through your head. This is how you can cut down your real world reaction time and be better prepared for reacting to real life SD scenarios. I believe you can build a muscle memory though imagination.

Sharkbite · May 31, 2015, 01:50 PM

Man!!!. If i was going to be in Japan for 2+ years, id find me a good Aikido dojo and put all my training efforts into that.

What a great Opportunity

T. O'Heir · May 31, 2015, 02:16 PM

Airsoft pistols(a lot of which are made in Japan. Big time players in Japan too.) and paint ball guns are toys and have nothing to do with real firearms. A good quality air pistol is not. No Olympic Airsoft shooters, but there are air pistols at the Olympics.
Wouldn't get caught shooting even an air gun without looking into Japanese law first. May not be legal for a foreigner to possess.

AK103K · May 31, 2015, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Airsoft pistols(a lot of which are made in Japan. Big time players in Japan too.) and paint ball guns are toys and have nothing to do with real firearms.

A higher end airsoft is far from a toy, and you can do things with them, that you cant with a "real" firearm, or other type air pistol.

I can use the airsoft that duplicates my carry gun and its accessories in my normal holster and gear, practice everything I practice with a live gun, and a good bit more, like working on drills in the house, or force on force against an live opponent, etc. The gas airsoft function very much like your real gun, and while they dont have blast, and true recoil, they do have a recoil impulse and you need to track the sights (if youre using them), just like the real thing.

There may not be Olympic airsoft shooters, but Im not practicing for the Olympics either. I wouldnt use one of those Olympic air pistols for real world practice either. Use the right tool for the job.

Big Shrek · May 31, 2015, 10:10 PM

If you are a member of the US military, each base of decent size has a gun range.
You simply check with the armorer for times/events to shoot at.

Video games are not to be dismissed.
Some are pretty helpful in speed, presentation, shoot/no shoot, and other drills.
The old "Police Trainer" arcade game helped me get fast as heck...
spent HOURS working every possible angle...
which paid off in huge benefits in SASS, GSSF, IDPA, and IPSC competitions.
Beware the old geezer that ain't as geezerly as he looks

Um...lemme think...on Okinawa...
Camp Hansen Rifle Range
Camp Schwab Pistol Range
Skeet at Kadena AFB, check with MWR
been many moons, so anything may have closed/opened since...

If you are a Marine, please do NOT get involved with local gals...
if Papa-san/Mama-san don't like you, they can and will enter a rape charge on yer butt...
by the time its all figured out that you never even got to second base,
the locals are rioting, you're up in front of the Old Man, and they gotta ship you home in shame...
or worse, to Area 52 in the Antarctic...or Adak, or some other hole inna ground
where nobody ever really wants to be, and only gets there if they screw up.
Be Warned.

On the upside, get as far away from Okinawa as possible when taking leave.
Kyoto, Tokyo, and other cities are a BLAST!!
Some places are non-friendly to US Mil, so stay in at least a group of 3 or 4.
Move on if someone gets loud and confrontational...be polite.
Don't mess with the tattooed guys...especially the full-body ones.
Yes, the haircut is a dead give-away, so is walking in step with the other group members...
learn as much Nihongo as you can before getting there...
Becoming a "Conversational English Instructor" is VERY lucrative...
and can get you friends & more

Erno86 · June 1, 2015, 12:39 PM

Maybe you can buy one of those blue plastic dummy guns. My personal preference would be a wooden or synthetic samurai sword. On my preseason scouting missions for deer...I take to the woods with my wooden or synthetic samurai sword --- slashing spider webs, vines, mosquitos, gnats and bees.

Kimio · June 1, 2015, 01:43 PM

@Big Shrek I appreciate the advice, I'm actually USAF, and am half Japanese/Thai. I was in Tokyo back in '07 and had a blast then. I know a little bit of Japanese, enough to barely get around (Ask where X is, how much is Y in yen, my name is etc.)

No worries about getting involved with the local girls, seeing as I have one that already like here in the states. Also, yes, Yakuza, not wise to get too chummy with them, that and Pachinko parlors are a definite no no.

Reading around, it looks like it's pretty much impossible to have any kind of firearm in Japan nowadays, even more so if you live off base. Handguns are out of the question, so I'm not going to even try with that.

I may look into one of those plastic laser trainer guns, I don't think they'll have any problems with those, seeing as it's VERY obvious that it's not a real, functioning firearm.

Big Shrek · June 2, 2015, 04:50 PM

Yeah, you are stuck with Issue Guns Only at those ranges.
On the upside, they probably still have quite a few of the Antiques lying about

May 28, 2015, 10:38 AM	#1
Kimio Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,171	methods of training when real firearms are not available? I'm going to be out of the country for the next couple years in a country that prohibits the ownership of personal firearms. That said, I'd like to know if there is any real way that I can keep my skills as sharp as I can despite this. I think air soft is still legal where I'm going as well as paint ball, so I was considering doing that. Nothing comes close to actual trigger time at the range though I imagine. EDIT: To specify what country I'll be going to, I'll be going to Japan Any suggestions would be appreciated. Last edited by Kimio; May 29, 2015 at 05:04 PM.

May 28, 2015, 11:52 AM	#2
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	Practice point shooting: Draw you hand from how ever you carry, pointing your index finger. We all know that we're suppose to keep the finger off the trigger until ready to shoot. This safety tidbit helps in point shooting. When drawing a pistol the trigger finger lays along the slide, POINTING, when drawing a revolver the finger lays under the cylinder, POINTING. In my CCW classes I spend a great deal of time having he students draw and point without a firearm. You'd be surprised how that helps your point shooting. Practice you presentation speed: You defiantly don't want to use a gun for this. it does require a partner. Have your partner stand close with his arms bent at the elbow, shoulder width apart. Hands extended. When he sees you start to draw, he is suppose to slap his hands together before you get your pointed finger up to his hands. If in slapping any part of your hand, you won. You'd be surprised how easy it is to draw and beat the guy slapping his hand. If you cant do it, then you should re-evaluate your method of carry. Shoot - Don't Shoot: This exercise is good for active shooter situations where you are hunkered down waiting for either the bandit or responding officers to pop around the corner. Again you need a partner. You hunker down in a corner ready to draw. Your partner pops around the corner, but you don't know if he has his gun (pointed hand) or empty closed hand. If he has a would be gun (representing the bandit) you need to draw and point, if he doesn't have his would be gun (representing a first responder), you produce empty hands. These are good drill whether or not you are visiting a gun free area or not. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

May 28, 2015, 12:33 PM	#3
4V50 Gary Staff Join Date: November 2, 1998 Location: Colorado Posts: 21,833	Recall there was a Japanese Olympic winner who never fired a real gun until he participated in the Olympics. He practiced with an airgun. __________________ Vigilantibus et non dormientibus jura subveniunt. *Molon Labe!*

May 28, 2015, 01:59 PM	#5
aarondhgraham Senior Member Join Date: December 1, 2009 Location: Stillwater, OKlahoma Posts: 8,638	Airsoft, Airguns, or Paintball,,, Airsoft guns, Air guns, or Paintball,,, Those seem to be the only options available. Aarond . __________________ Never ever give an enemy the advantage of a verbal threat. Caje: The coward dies a thousand times, the brave only once. Kirby: That's about all it takes, ain't it? Aarond is good,,, Aarond is wise,,, Always trust Aarond! (most of the time)

May 29, 2015, 04:56 PM	#10
Glenn E. Meyer Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2000 Posts: 20,064	SIRT pistols. __________________ NRA, TSRA, IDPA, NTI, Polite Soc. - Aux Armes, Citoyens

May 28, 2015, 01:02 PM	#4
manta49 Senior Member Join Date: July 15, 2011 Location: N Ireland. UK. Posts: 1,809	Fair play for keeping up the training up, some good suggestion posted. Personally if I was going abroad firearms training would be the last thing on my mind. PS Be careful drawing a pretend handgun and pointing no one sees you, they might think you have lost the plot.

May 28, 2015, 05:27 PM	#6
Slopemeno Senior Member Join Date: January 19, 2007 Posts: 2,663	Paintball- if you take it seriously- can be a great skill builder. Airguns too.

May 28, 2015, 08:40 PM	#7
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Paintball is fine for "playing war" but it is a bit limited for practicing SD and other handgun skills, plus the residue makes it less than ideal for indoor practice. My recommendation would be to buy an air/CO2 gun that is as close as possible to the real gun you use at home. There are air/CO2 guns that mimic revolvers and auto pistols. They may not be perfect, but will help keep your hand in and usually are quiet enough to be used in detached homes or basements without disturbing others. A light bullet trap or even a wood backstop will stop the pellet. Some countries that ban or heavily restrict ownership of firearms still allow ranges and rental guns and gun clubs; a few ban even tools that resemble guns. So you may have to actually be there before you can decide what you can do, if anything, to keep up your skills. Jim

May 29, 2015, 03:17 PM	#8
Dragline45 Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2010 Posts: 3,513	Umarex makes airsoft copies of certain guns that are pretty darn close to the originals right down to the trigger pull. Plenty of dry fire practice with them and popping beer cans in the backyard will help hone your skills. Also this might be a good excuse to pick up archery if you haven't already. http://www.umarexusa.com/cart.php?m=...istIds=&venID=

May 29, 2015, 04:11 PM	#9
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	You dont say what country you will be in, so it's hard to give solid advice. Generally, airsoft guns have come a LONG WAY, becoming identical in fit and function to the firearms they mimic If they are allowed where you are going that would be my pick.

May 29, 2015, 05:04 PM	#11
Kimio Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,171	I'll be going to Japan to be specific, pretty sure that even Airsoft pistols are heavily regulated there.

May 29, 2015, 09:03 PM	#13
Kimio Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,171	Looking at where I'm going, it looks like I will not be allowed to own an airsoft gun, though I may need to verify that. EDIT: Yep, I'm most definitely NOT allowed to own let alone really handle one. Sadly. Last edited by Kimio; May 29, 2015 at 09:10 PM.

May 29, 2015, 10:57 PM	#14
Dragline45 Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2010 Posts: 3,513	You sure about that, I know it's Wikipedia but check out the entry for Airsoft legality by country. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_i..._airsoft#Japan Also check out this thread http://www.airsoftforum.com/board/to...guns-in-japan/ When browsing guns on youtube I will often come across vids from Japan of people showing off their replica airsoft guns.

May 29, 2015, 11:15 PM	#15
Kimio Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,171	It's not so much Japanese law, but more so military law that prohibits me from having one sadly.

May 31, 2015, 01:29 PM	#16
DA/SA Fan Senior Member Join Date: May 30, 2014 Location: Missouri Posts: 661	What about one of those plastic laser target systems? Aside from that spend time thinking. Run scenarios through your head. This is how you can cut down your real world reaction time and be better prepared for reacting to real life SD scenarios. I believe you can build a muscle memory though imagination. __________________ "Badges? We don't need no stinkin' badges!" CASTLE DOCTRINE STRONGLY ENFORCED "Happiness is a warm gun"

May 31, 2015, 01:50 PM	#17
Sharkbite Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2013 Location: Western slope of Colorado Posts: 3,679	Man!!!. If i was going to be in Japan for 2+ years, id find me a good Aikido dojo and put all my training efforts into that. What a great Opportunity

May 31, 2015, 02:16 PM	#18
T. O'Heir Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 12,453	Airsoft pistols(a lot of which are made in Japan. Big time players in Japan too.) and paint ball guns are toys and have nothing to do with real firearms. A good quality air pistol is not. No Olympic Airsoft shooters, but there are air pistols at the Olympics. Wouldn't get caught shooting even an air gun without looking into Japanese law first. May not be legal for a foreigner to possess. __________________ Spelling and grammar count!

May 31, 2015, 10:10 PM	#20
Big Shrek Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: NorthWest Florida Posts: 1,358	If you are a member of the US military, each base of decent size has a gun range. You simply check with the armorer for times/events to shoot at. Video games are not to be dismissed. Some are pretty helpful in speed, presentation, shoot/no shoot, and other drills. The old "Police Trainer" arcade game helped me get fast as heck... spent HOURS working every possible angle... which paid off in huge benefits in SASS, GSSF, IDPA, and IPSC competitions. Beware the old geezer that ain't as geezerly as he looks Um...lemme think...on Okinawa... Camp Hansen Rifle Range Camp Schwab Pistol Range Skeet at Kadena AFB, check with MWR been many moons, so anything may have closed/opened since... If you are a Marine, please do NOT get involved with local gals... if Papa-san/Mama-san don't like you, they can and will enter a rape charge on yer butt... by the time its all figured out that you never even got to second base, the locals are rioting, you're up in front of the Old Man, and they gotta ship you home in shame... or worse, to Area 52 in the Antarctic...or Adak, or some other hole inna ground where nobody ever really wants to be, and only gets there if they screw up. Be Warned. On the upside, get as far away from Okinawa as possible when taking leave. Kyoto, Tokyo, and other cities are a BLAST!! Some places are non-friendly to US Mil, so stay in at least a group of 3 or 4. Move on if someone gets loud and confrontational...be polite. Don't mess with the tattooed guys...especially the full-body ones. Yes, the haircut is a dead give-away, so is walking in step with the other group members... learn as much Nihongo as you can before getting there... Becoming a "Conversational English Instructor" is VERY lucrative... and can get you friends & more __________________ Marlin Specialist Calico Specialist A gun should be a tool in the hands of a deadly weapon, not a deadly weapon in the hands of a tool. Last edited by Big Shrek; May 31, 2015 at 10:17 PM.

June 1, 2015, 12:39 PM	#21
Erno86 Senior Member Join Date: September 22, 2012 Location: Marriottsville, Maryland Posts: 1,739	Maybe you can buy one of those blue plastic dummy guns. My personal preference would be a wooden or synthetic samurai sword. On my preseason scouting missions for deer...I take to the woods with my wooden or synthetic samurai sword --- slashing spider webs, vines, mosquitos, gnats and bees. __________________ That rifle hanging on the wall of the working class flat or labourer's cottage is the symbol of democracy. It is our job to see that it stays there." --- George Orwell

June 1, 2015, 01:43 PM	#22
Kimio Senior Member Join Date: January 2, 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 1,171	@Big Shrek I appreciate the advice, I'm actually USAF, and am half Japanese/Thai. I was in Tokyo back in '07 and had a blast then. I know a little bit of Japanese, enough to barely get around (Ask where X is, how much is Y in yen, my name is etc.) No worries about getting involved with the local girls, seeing as I have one that already like here in the states. Also, yes, Yakuza, not wise to get too chummy with them, that and Pachinko parlors are a definite no no. Reading around, it looks like it's pretty much impossible to have any kind of firearm in Japan nowadays, even more so if you live off base. Handguns are out of the question, so I'm not going to even try with that. I may look into one of those plastic laser trainer guns, I don't think they'll have any problems with those, seeing as it's VERY obvious that it's not a real, functioning firearm.

June 2, 2015, 04:50 PM	#23
Big Shrek Senior Member Join Date: August 6, 2009 Location: NorthWest Florida Posts: 1,358	Yeah, you are stuck with Issue Guns Only at those ranges. On the upside, they probably still have quite a few of the Antiques lying about __________________ Marlin Specialist Calico Specialist A gun should be a tool in the hands of a deadly weapon, not a deadly weapon in the hands of a tool.