The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old December 2, 2012, 05:25 PM   #1
Onward Allusion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2009
Location: Back in a Non-Free State
Posts: 3,133
Rationale of not carrying in Post Office

I can understand why individuals should not be allowed carry inside courthouses, and some other government buildings, but what exactly is the rationale for not being able to carry inside a POST OFFICE??? The only thing that comes to mind relates to receiving certified mail that contains bad tidings... Is this why?
__________________
Simple as ABC . . . Always Be Carrying
Onward Allusion is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 05:36 PM   #2
Nathan
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2001
Posts: 6,264
There is none. Same with government buildings.
Nathan is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 07:34 PM   #3
kilimanjaro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 23, 2009
Posts: 3,963
It's a Federal building, the rule is the same for all of them.
kilimanjaro is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 09:15 PM   #4
Jim March
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 14, 1999
Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA
Posts: 7,417
I think we're waiting for a US Supreme Court ruling on "carry" before challenging this crap.
__________________
Jim March
Jim March is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 10:10 PM   #5
Zekest Crowe
Member
 
Join Date: June 24, 2012
Location: WA
Posts: 36
What is the big deal? How many people need to go to the Post Office three times a day? If you job has you running from federal building to federal building all day long, then you need to deal with the carry issue, just as hundreds others do who have that type of job (lawyer) who cc.
Zekest Crowe is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 10:32 PM   #6
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,414
Quote:
Originally Posted by kilimanjaro
It's a Federal building, the rule is the same for all of them.
No, it isn't the same. The Federal law applying to most Federal buildings has an exception for "lawful purposes." Although it hasn't been tested in court and I would not knowingly volunteer to become the test case, it has been proposed that carry for self-defense with a state-issued license/permit to carry would be covered under that exemption. Also, the law applying to most Federal buildings uses the word "facility," which is defined as "building."

Carry in a post office is prohibited under a separate regulation adopted by the USPS. It does NOT contain any exemption for "other lawful purposes," and it applies to the entire property, not just the interior of the building.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 11:40 PM   #7
Baylorattorney
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 2011
Posts: 177
CFR (Code of Fed Reg) title 39 "conduct on postal property" states in pertinent part "NO PERSON while on postal property may carry firearms ...."
Baylorattorney is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 11:41 PM   #8
Baylorattorney
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 2011
Posts: 177
The rationale is you don't want people "going postal"
Baylorattorney is offline  
Old December 2, 2012, 11:43 PM   #9
Baylorattorney
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 9, 2011
Posts: 177
Frankly, at one time bandits targeted the post office like banks.
Baylorattorney is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 12:06 AM   #10
BarryLee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 29, 2010
Location: The ATL (OTP)
Posts: 3,942
The frustrating part isn’t the prohibition against carry inside the Post Office, but the fact that you cannot even have a gun in your car on their property. So, it isn’t matter of leaving a gun in the car, but having to leave it at home.
__________________
A major source of objection to a free economy is precisely that it ... gives people what they want instead of what a particular group thinks they ought to want. Underlying most arguments against the free market is a lack of belief in freedom itself.
- Milton Friedman
BarryLee is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 12:32 AM   #11
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,414
Quote:
Originally Posted by BarryLee
The frustrating part isn’t the prohibition against carry inside the Post Office, but the fact that you cannot even have a gun in your car on their property. So, it isn’t matter of leaving a gun in the car, but having to leave it at home.
For many people, this is the problem. I'm fortunate in that I can choose between two post offices. One is a storefront in a strip mall, so the parking lot isn't postal property. The other has no parking lot, so I just park at the curb and walk in.

But ... since Obama's election (the first time) the VA hospital has sprouted signs at all entrances to the PROPERTY saying no weapons are allowed on the PROPERTY. Of course, the authority they cite is the standard Federal law that specifically says "in" Federal facilities, and defines "facility" as a building, but when I tried to politely discuss this with a sergeant on the campus cop squad he copped an attitude and I decided discretion was the better part of valor -- so I beat a hasty retreat.

It's a significant difficulty for me because I live 15 miles west of the hospital, and the range where I shoot is 20 miles east. It used to be convenient to toss a range bag in the Jeep, go to an appointment, then continue on to the range. Now I have to reverse direction and schlep all the way back home before I head off to the range.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 01:00 AM   #12
Dr Big Bird PhD
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 26, 2012
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 779
All federal laws that restrict freedoms tend to be contradicting and not thoroughly thought out.
__________________
I told the new me,
"Meet me at the bus station and hold a sign that reads: 'Today is the first day of the rest of your life.'"
But the old me met me with a sign that read: "Welcome back."
Who you are is not a function of where you are. -Off Minor

Last edited by Dr Big Bird PhD; December 4, 2012 at 12:11 AM.
Dr Big Bird PhD is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 06:07 AM   #13
Odd
Member
 
Join Date: August 24, 2011
Location: Enjoying snacks by the fo
Posts: 15
Excluding post offices, aren't most government buildings usually staffed with guards? It is rather pointless to mandate a "gun free zone" when there are no means to enforce it or protect the people using the building.
__________________
Victim: A hapless individual who waits for third party intervention and/or gambles their life on what little good remains in the heart of their attacker.
Odd is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 08:37 AM   #14
krucam
Member
 
Join Date: September 21, 2010
Posts: 26
There IS a Federal Case addressing this, Bonidy v USPS:

http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=472340
__________________
Mark C.
DFW, TX
krucam is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 09:50 AM   #15
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,414
Quote:
There IS a Federal Case addressing this, Bonidy v USPS:
That looks like a good case, but the one I would really like to see is one testing the "other lawful purposes" exemption in the Federal law being cited to prohibit all firearms from Federal facilities besides post offices.
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 05:55 PM   #16
Onward Allusion
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2009
Location: Back in a Non-Free State
Posts: 3,133
Quote:
BarryLee
The frustrating part isn’t the prohibition against carry inside the Post Office, but the fact that you cannot even have a gun in your car on their property. So, it isn’t matter of leaving a gun in the car, but having to leave it at home.
THIS is the reason for my post. It is bang-my-head against the wall frustrating that one can't even leave their gun in the car if they have to pick up a certified letter or ship off a package.

I just don't understand what the rationale of heck those who wrote the USPS regulations. I wonder if they are afraid of their own going off the deep end...
__________________
Simple as ABC . . . Always Be Carrying
Onward Allusion is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 08:44 PM   #17
Aguila Blanca
Staff
 
Join Date: September 25, 2008
Location: CONUS
Posts: 18,414
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onward Allusion
I just don't understand what the rationale of heck those who wrote the USPS regulations. I wonder if they are afraid of their own going off the deep end...
What are you wondering about? Haven't you ever heard the expression "going postal"? What did you THINK that refers to?
Aguila Blanca is offline  
Old December 3, 2012, 10:24 PM   #18
ripnbst
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 24, 2010
Location: Spring, TX
Posts: 1,552
When I go to the post office I park in the business next door and walk over from there. Are all your guys' post offices really isolated? I understand that it's inconvenient but not impossible.

Last edited by ripnbst; December 3, 2012 at 10:34 PM.
ripnbst is offline  
Old December 4, 2012, 12:02 AM   #19
Crazy88Fingers
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 20, 2010
Location: WesTex
Posts: 958
Wait, are you asking for the rationale behind a federal law?

__________________
"And I'm tellin' you son, well it ain't no fun, staring straight down a .44"
-Lynyrd Skynyrd
Crazy88Fingers is offline  
Old December 4, 2012, 11:41 PM   #20
Al Norris
Moderator Emeritus
 
Join Date: June 29, 2000
Location: Rupert, Idaho
Posts: 9,660
The latest in the Bonidy case can be found here: Bonidy vs US Postal Service

If you take the time to read the defendants MSJ, you will see all the justification you would ever want to see, in why the USPS doesn't want any guns on property it controls.
Al Norris is offline  
Old December 5, 2012, 07:17 AM   #21
rebs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 10, 2012
Posts: 3,881
Quote:
The frustrating part isn’t the prohibition against carry inside the Post Office, but the fact that you cannot even have a gun in your car on their property. So, it isn’t matter of leaving a gun in the car, but having to leave it at home.
They have to power to disarm you when you leave your home and going to the post office. Thats is just not right, another violation of the 2nd. What if you get car jacked, robbed or worse on the the way to and from ? You are on your own ? I can see not bring a gun in the post office but you should have the right to leave it in your vehicle while you run in. This is like another form of gun control, isn't it ? What next a law saying you cannot CC while driving a vehicle because of the drive by shooting in the ghetto ?
The 2nd amendment is being limited more and more soon there will be no where you can CC. The 2nd amendment says the right to keep and bear arms, it does not say anything about except where the government says you can't.
rebs is offline  
Old December 5, 2012, 08:00 AM   #22
BGutzman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 2009
Location: Frozen Tundra
Posts: 2,414
If we are to take the post offices arguments against guns on postal property then I cant see why that same logic wouldn't or couldn't be applied to every ounce of federal property.

For myself I do not see a the post office as having some special need that out weights the right... Certainly any BG isn't going to obey the law so the only people left with out a firearm on postal property are lawful citizens...
__________________
Molon Labe
BGutzman is offline  
Old December 6, 2012, 06:09 AM   #23
iraiam
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 6, 2012
Location: Lakewood, CO
Posts: 1,057
Quote:
we are to take the post offices arguments against guns on postal property then I cant see why that same logic wouldn't or couldn't be applied to every ounce of federal property.
It's not that the property is owned by the guvmint, the wording is actually "federal facility".

The term "Federal facility" means a building or part
thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal
employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing
their official duties.

18 U.S.C. section 930

During one of the firearm classes I took, a lawyer said he believed that a ranger station or National Forest visitor center would also fall under this definition out to the parking lot.
__________________
NRA Lifetime Member Since 1999

"I ask, sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people except for a few public officials." George Mason

Last edited by iraiam; December 6, 2012 at 06:16 AM.
iraiam is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:21 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.07836 seconds with 10 queries