The REAL Browning Automatic Rifle

dakota.potts · April 24, 2013, 10:44 PM

I've tried to look up the old Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) to find some research on the market, but so far I've only been able to find Browning's new line named the BAR. I'm looking for the one they produced that saw use during World War II. I'm curious what the automatic ones go for on the market but, more realistically (and more importantly to this forum), if anybody manufactures them or a similar platform in semi auto. I haven't been able to find anything. Anybody know of something or any links?

armoredman · April 24, 2013, 11:11 PM

Yes, there is a semi-auto version out there, but rare and very expensive. Not as rare and expensive as the originals, I am guessing - I have no idea what an NFA BAR would go for.

tahunua001 · April 24, 2013, 11:26 PM

a class 3 BAR would cost in excess of $15,000 that's a little out of most peoples price ranges.

there is a company that makes a semi auto version, I don't recall the name of the company but they are pretty convincing replicas, they however still cost about $6000 IIRC.

dakota.potts · April 24, 2013, 11:33 PM

Thanks guys, a little closer to the information I was unable to find for whatever reason.

I dream about owning an NFA weapon but that will not be a reality for a long time if at all. I am curious about a semi auto version but $6,000 is a lot

sprouticus · April 24, 2013, 11:59 PM

You want to look at Ohio Ordnance Works; they make a semi-auto version for $4,300 (currently).

http://www.ohioordnanceworks.com/Fir...1918A3_SLR.rif

I do believe they make the receiver than use as many USGI parts as they can after that.

5.56RifleGuy · April 25, 2013, 12:22 AM

A full auto BAR just sold at auction (Rock Island) for about $32,000. Add a 15% buyers premium to that too. Ouch.

Fishbed77 · April 25, 2013, 10:17 AM

Quote:

A full auto BAR just sold at auction (Rock Island) for about $32,000. Add a 15% buyers premium to that too. Ouch.

Makes you wonder how free this country is when an average man can not afford one of these mass-produced full-auto pieces of history.

At least we can still get our $625 Garands from the CMP!

5.56RifleGuy · April 25, 2013, 01:53 PM

..

James K · April 25, 2013, 01:59 PM

There were three principal military versions of the BAR. The M1918 was selective fire, full and semi-auto, with no bipod. The M1918A1 had a bipod in front of the handguard. The M1918A2 had a bipod at the muzzle and instead of semi and full auto had a slow and rapid fire selector. The slow fire was 300-350 rounds per minute; the normal (rapid) rate of fire was 500-600 rpm. An expert rifleman could work the trigger in slow fire to achieve what amounted to semi-auto fire.

The slow fire was achieved by redesigning the buffer to incorporate an actuator, which was driven to the rear by the operating slide, then came forward to trip the sear. The movement of the actuator caused the delay, resulting in a slow fire rate. In combat, the actuators tended to become inoperable, so most BAR men always used the normal (rapid) fire, which they felt was more effective anyway.

The bipod was moved to the muzzle for an unusual reason - it reduced the accuracy of the gun. The BAR, with its heavy fixed barrel, will routinely shoot 2 minutes of angle off a rest in semi-auto mode. But in a machinegun there is no desire to put all 20 rounds into an enemy soldier's belt buckle. As someone said, you want to "spread out the blessings". With the muzzle-mounted bipod, the gun would jump around more and disperse the shots over a larger area.

The semi-auto guns look like the M1918A2 but are different internally to meet BATFE's requirement that they not be readily convertible to FA fire. They fire from a closed bolt and have only SAFE and FIRE selector positions.

Jim

P.S. If you want more info, don't Google BAR or Browning Automatic Rifle, search on "M1918A2"; there is a lot of info out there. There is also a book, Rock in a Hard Place, by James L. Ballou, available from Collector Grade Publications.

JK

defcon · April 25, 2013, 08:33 PM

damn $32k and $4.3k?

i made my own 1918 BAR clone in a .22LR version for $360

Stevie-Ray · April 27, 2013, 09:46 PM

One of my old bosses had one. I remember him telling me about the hassle of moving to a new neighborhood and having to tell the local cop shop about it. Of course the first question was "Whaddya want that for?"

And, of course his answer was contentious as well- "It's not a question of want-it's MINE."

I knew then it would be expensive, but I had no idea of 30K+

April 24, 2013, 10:44 PM	#1
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	The REAL Browning Automatic Rifle I've tried to look up the old Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR) to find some research on the market, but so far I've only been able to find Browning's new line named the BAR. I'm looking for the one they produced that saw use during World War II. I'm curious what the automatic ones go for on the market but, more realistically (and more importantly to this forum), if anybody manufactures them or a similar platform in semi auto. I haven't been able to find anything. Anybody know of something or any links?

April 24, 2013, 11:26 PM	#3
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	a class 3 BAR would cost in excess of $15,000 that's a little out of most peoples price ranges. there is a company that makes a semi auto version, I don't recall the name of the company but they are pretty convincing replicas, they however still cost about $6000 IIRC. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

April 25, 2013, 12:22 AM	#6
5.56RifleGuy Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2010 Location: USA Posts: 1,212	A full auto BAR just sold at auction (Rock Island) for about $32,000. Add a 15% buyers premium to that too. Ouch. __________________ Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus

April 25, 2013, 01:53 PM	#8
5.56RifleGuy Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2010 Location: USA Posts: 1,212	.. __________________ Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Last edited by 5.56RifleGuy; April 25, 2013 at 01:58 PM. Reason: Not on topic

April 27, 2013, 09:46 PM	#11
Stevie-Ray Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: The shores of Lake Huron Posts: 4,783	One of my old bosses had one. I remember him telling me about the hassle of moving to a new neighborhood and having to tell the local cop shop about it. Of course the first question was "Whaddya want that for?" And, of course his answer was contentious as well- "It's not a question of want-it's MINE." I knew then it would be expensive, but I had no idea of 30K+ __________________ Stevie-Ray Join the NRA/ILA I am the weapon; my gun is a tool. It's regrettable that with some people those descriptors are reversed.

April 24, 2013, 11:11 PM	#2
armoredman Senior Member Join Date: May 22, 2007 Location: Arizona Posts: 5,297	Yes, there is a semi-auto version out there, but rare and very expensive. Not as rare and expensive as the originals, I am guessing - I have no idea what an NFA BAR would go for.

April 24, 2013, 11:33 PM	#4
dakota.potts Senior Member Join Date: February 25, 2013 Location: Keystone Heights, Florida Posts: 3,084	Thanks guys, a little closer to the information I was unable to find for whatever reason. I dream about owning an NFA weapon but that will not be a reality for a long time if at all. I am curious about a semi auto version but $6,000 is a lot

April 24, 2013, 11:59 PM	#5
sprouticus Member Join Date: September 17, 2011 Location: Minnesota Posts: 38	You want to look at Ohio Ordnance Works; they make a semi-auto version for $4,300 (currently). http://www.ohioordnanceworks.com/Fir...1918A3_SLR.rif I do believe they make the receiver than use as many USGI parts as they can after that.

April 25, 2013, 01:59 PM	#9
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	There were three principal military versions of the BAR. The M1918 was selective fire, full and semi-auto, with no bipod. The M1918A1 had a bipod in front of the handguard. The M1918A2 had a bipod at the muzzle and instead of semi and full auto had a slow and rapid fire selector. The slow fire was 300-350 rounds per minute; the normal (rapid) rate of fire was 500-600 rpm. An expert rifleman could work the trigger in slow fire to achieve what amounted to semi-auto fire. The slow fire was achieved by redesigning the buffer to incorporate an actuator, which was driven to the rear by the operating slide, then came forward to trip the sear. The movement of the actuator caused the delay, resulting in a slow fire rate. In combat, the actuators tended to become inoperable, so most BAR men always used the normal (rapid) fire, which they felt was more effective anyway. The bipod was moved to the muzzle for an unusual reason - it reduced the accuracy of the gun. The BAR, with its heavy fixed barrel, will routinely shoot 2 minutes of angle off a rest in semi-auto mode. But in a machinegun there is no desire to put all 20 rounds into an enemy soldier's belt buckle. As someone said, you want to "spread out the blessings". With the muzzle-mounted bipod, the gun would jump around more and disperse the shots over a larger area. The semi-auto guns look like the M1918A2 but are different internally to meet BATFE's requirement that they not be readily convertible to FA fire. They fire from a closed bolt and have only SAFE and FIRE selector positions. Jim P.S. If you want more info, don't Google BAR or Browning Automatic Rifle, search on "M1918A2"; there is a lot of info out there. There is also a book, Rock in a Hard Place, by James L. Ballou, available from Collector Grade Publications. JK

April 25, 2013, 08:33 PM	#10
defcon Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 160	damn $32k and $4.3k? i made my own 1918 BAR clone in a .22LR version for $360

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