July 10, 2010, 10:16 PM | #76 | |
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July 10, 2010, 10:33 PM | #77 | |
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Aggression is met with heightened aggression among people whose lives involve violence, be it through prior incarceration, gang involvement, or general criminal activity. That's their life, they've probably been beat down more times than most people have stubbed their toe. Knives, guns, and imminent violence is their daily reality. Some guy they've been marking for a week isn't going to leave them shaking in their boots just because he pulled a Gat or yelled "Stop!" |
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July 11, 2010, 01:10 AM | #78 | |
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booker_t - yeah, I recognized that, but my point was to illustrate that situations other than an active attack on you might result in someone "surrendering" to you.
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If you were justified in shooting the perp, then his actions were those that threatened you with death or great bodily injury. That means he wanted to kill you or do serious violence to you. Thus, I am not taking the risk of getting within arm's reach (or leg reach) of him, conscious or not. If he is conscious, I can provide him with first aid items to render aid to himself. If he's unconscious, I have no idea if he's faking it or if he'll suddenly "wake up" while my hands are busy and try to choke me to death. If, as you say, he has a throat full of #4 buckshot or my .45 round turned his head into a canoe, there's not a lot I'll be able to do anyhow. I still have the concern of whether he was alone or not to deal with and/or calling 911 for aid. Yes, my first impulse would normally be to render some kind of aid. But the more I think of the potential for things to go wrong, the less likely I'm inclined to take the risk...or let a loved one take the risk in my place.
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July 11, 2010, 04:51 PM | #79 | |
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Lets think this through........a poll of prison inmates locked up for the crime of burglary showed that their #1 fear is the armed homeowner followed by a large dog. That tells me that most don't want to be shot. I have had only positive results from pulling my firearm. Once a car burglar being held at gunpoint by my cousin decided to plea their case with me as I searched the vehicle for a revolver left in it overnight. I pulled my pistol and simply said stop go sit down now and it was done instantly. Another time I was playing basketball when a large group of ghetto youth came to cause trouble. I pulled my pistol held it down by my side and made a slow peaceful retreat. The pistol immediately stopped the advancing group without a word from me. In fact every incident of this type involving friends and family except microgunners has seen the bad guy either stop, comply, or run. So I have to believe that it is more uncommon for someone to continue in the face of an armed citizen. I really think its the loonies or drug addicts and not hardened thugs who do this. |
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July 11, 2010, 06:03 PM | #80 |
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*yawn*
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July 11, 2010, 06:43 PM | #81 |
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Bored??? Go read another book. Seems your responses come from books quite often.
Psychology 101 perhaps? In the real world "most" of the time they run. When they don't run there seems to be a screw loose or under the influence of something. Tough upbringings may lead them to a tough lifestyle but they run or stop when lead is getting ready to fly most of the time in the real world. |
July 11, 2010, 07:34 PM | #82 | |
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July 12, 2010, 05:54 AM | #83 | ||
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My point above is simply to dispel the notion that hardened thugs and gangsters are more apt to ignore the pulling of a firearm and press on. This simply goes against all the video footage I have seen and all the personal stories I have heard. Truth is most sane folk don't want to be shot. Most SD scenarios involve someone pulling a gun and that ends the situation. Quote:
If I am reading this wrong Mr Ayoob please feel free to correct me. |
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July 12, 2010, 10:34 AM | #84 | |
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In SC - to use your firearm, you must either BELIEVE you are in danger of losing your life or ACTUALLY be in such danger. The belief may cause me to draw my weapon, the actuality may cause me to shoot. |
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July 12, 2010, 10:44 AM | #85 | |
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July 12, 2010, 11:22 AM | #86 |
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If 2 youth , one with a knife, approach you in a hallway jabbering in spanish........and they stop 10 feet away cause they see a gun in your hand pointing at the chest of the knife wielder.........the knife guy continues to jabber while cutting the air .....and what little spanish you know, the other kid is telling him to ‘stop’........but he doesn’t and after a half minute of this you point your gun at between his legs and ask him ‘if he wants to pi$$ like a women the rest of his life’? seems he understands english cause this action calms him right down and they both leave.
Is this what you mean? at 14 or 17 years old (in the 1970's anyways) you have seen the other kids on the block/gang get shot or cut and scars are a sign of the streets--get you respect. but threaten his manhood........now you have his attention.
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July 12, 2010, 01:15 PM | #87 | |
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Having said that, yes, that is exactly what I was thinking and I believe it has probably been done successfully by someone, some time somewhere - if not a number of ones, a number of times, "a number of wheres." I believe there is a time when any guy will very quickly picture in his mind his possible condition a few moments later, respond with more than a ho-hum level of distaste and quickly conclude he'd really rather be some place else.
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July 12, 2010, 04:03 PM | #88 | ||
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July 12, 2010, 08:37 PM | #89 |
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Does it?
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July 13, 2010, 07:42 AM | #90 | |
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Many folks even justify carrying a mousegun because most folks will comply without needing to be shot. |
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July 14, 2010, 03:34 AM | #91 |
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Probably the majority of incidents occur when a perp wants to score money to get his fix, not while he's high. When a gun is introduced, they realize that they can get hurt and also that the effort to score money just got too large. They can flee and go hit up someone else in 20 minutes to score.
If your assailant is on drugs, it's doubtful that a can of spray seasoning or even shock treatment can dissuade him from taking what he wants. Even the threat of a gun may not be realized if his focus is on taking something from you. The person's mentail state is a non-issue for me. If he's coming at me in a threatening manner, I'm going to avoid, evade and move to put barriers between us if I can do so easily. If the sight of a gun doesn't deter¹ and the attack approach continues, I'll double tap as needed until he stops. ¹ One can impress upon a jury that most rational people will stop or back away if a gun is pointed at them. Those who continue towards an armed man ready to defend himself are not rational and are unafraid of deadly force. You can offer no more convincing arguments to deter him and are forced into shooting him.
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July 14, 2010, 08:51 AM | #92 | |
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July 18, 2010, 10:39 AM | #93 |
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I Had BG in My House Attempting Burglary
It cannot be coincidence that I join this forum and find this topic today. On October 21, 2004, my wife and I are awakened by our 6 month old puppy. He was all bristled up and growling and I just told him hush. About that time, I heard someone talking and hear furniture in my living room being moved. We have an emergency plan that if our home is broken into she is to grab our son at the end of our hallway and go through our master bath and get on our large walk in closet, flat on the floor. I am an avid firearms collector and my father is an ex-special forces and Texas State Trooper and I have never not known how to behave around a firearm and when old enough, carry and use a firearm. I retrieve my 12 gauge Remington 870 Marine, six in the tube and one in the chamber and eight on the side rail of OO Buck. Once I knew I was between what I knew to be two large men and my wife, I took up the phone and called 911. I informed the dispatcher my home was being burglarized and I was armed with a shotgun and described my clothing. Staying on the phone, I yelled at the top of my lungs, "you better grab what you got and leave immediately, I am armed and on the phone with the police". Now my home is large and our doors are solid wood but I had taken a position in my bedroom where if a round were to come through the door it could not hit me. The dog is going crazy, the dispatcher is pleading with me not to leave my bedroom and I hear four rounds go off at chest level though my bedroom door and into the sheetrock. I had no desire to kill anyone over a dam*ed TV set or DVD player, and all my firearms are in my home office-study. I chose the shotgun for self defense because I did not want rounds passing through my walls and going out a window and hitting either some innocent neighbor, or the police who I can now hear are coming. I have too many guns to count (they are inventoried and serial numbers recorded) and thousands of rounds ammunition. But I know I have to stop this threat and now the threat is to my wife and young son and not to my property and I cannot wait for them to enter my bedroom. I take the weapon off safe and I open the door and have the weapon down with the butt touching my shoulder, I slip against the hall wall and bring the weapon up and turn on the tactical light ready to fire, the light makes a large black male raise his hand holding a semi-auto stainless steel pistol to block the light in his eyes and I fire at his head, and I see another figure run through the light and see, not hear, because my ears are ringing, flashes as he runs behind the other man. I know I hit him and he is probably dead, but can't look down because I know I'm being fired on. I bring the light up ahead of the last flash and a second man is crouched in a combat position and has a black semi-auto pistol in both hands and he is firing. I cut my light off and simultaneously start moving to my right, his left and cut my light back on, he is still firing where I was and I fire three times at him, first at his head, then his chest, then his waist. Now I can see what the buckshot has done to him, but I am still not sure about the first intruder. Now there are police all around my house, sirens are howling, and my ears can barely hear the sirens. What I am concentrating on is the first man, if not down or dead, is between me and my family. I move arournd and step on broken electronics in the dark, and take a position in the hall and bring my gun up, ready to fire and cut on the light. I only needed a second to know it's over. I laid the gun down and ran to my bedroom closet and my wife and child are screaming but I cannot hear anything. I scream as loud as I can that she needs to help me find the phone so I can tell the dispatcher where we are, where my shotgun is, in my bedroom behind the door, and we are not moving until the police come to the closet. She gets on the phone and within seconds, a police officer is speaking to my wife through the door and she takes my hand and my son's hand and makes us back up against the wall and this officer walks in gun drawn, and quickly holsters his pistol. He starts asking me questions, and looking at my face and arms and my wife is pulling up my sleves and I realize they think I've been shot. I suddenly, I feel warm liquid running down my pajama legs and then my stomach and realize I am shot. Right under my left floating rib and blood is squiting out. The officer makes me lie down and I'm arguing let me lay on the bed and I still can't hear and I start to calm down and get real relaxed. When I wake up, I'm in the hospital. There is a doctor there that is saying over and over "do you want to see the bullet?" I said sure and he takes a small bullet out of his coat pocket and says "you're a lucky or crazy man, I can't tell which." I say I can barely hear you. He said your ears are going to be fine. My wife and son and same police officer come in and then a detective comes in and wants me to recount what happened. I tell them what I just told yall. Here in Texas, a lot of people have been carrying guns since they could lift one up. We announce our upcoming executions like they are football scores. Sometimes, they announce two or three in one night. Now if someone was stealing my TV or stuck a knife up and said hand me your wallet, even though I have a CWP, I would let them go. I still would not kill anyone over my wallet or TV. My wife and child were in danger, and maybe I should have stayed in the bedroom. People ask me all the time would I do it again. I am an attorney and the question comes up because I'm known as the guy who killed two people in his living room. I'll say this. I had to remodel my house. My cabinet, entertainment center, large flatscreen TV, sheetrock in three rooms and the moulding and furniture all had to be replaced. My second bathroom and guest bedroom all had buckshot damage, and in the end, my insurance forked over about $62,000.00 And I got shot in the side with a 40cal Taurus. But I had to take charge. I could not wait for those two men to make a forced entry into my bedroom. My wife and child were three doors and less than sixty feet away. I had to go out that door and I did not even remember pumping the shells into the chamber. My wife said the house look like a slaughter-house. Their blood, my blood and all that damage. Yes, if I pick up my shotgun or pull my concealed Glock, I am going to kill you.
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July 18, 2010, 12:23 PM | #94 |
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Congrats on surviving alive.
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July 18, 2010, 01:01 PM | #95 |
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A guy was going to mug me once, I pulled a Dan Wesson .357 on him and looked around for the cops.
He stopped, looked at it, then looked at me and took a half step forward. I had to stare at him in his eye and refine my point of aim straight at his face for him to believe I'd use it. Then he left after a short conversation. |
October 3, 2010, 07:01 PM | #96 |
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Hammerstrike44,
This is one of the most intense encounters I've ever seen described. Thankfully, you made it, and not the two criminals. I guess you've received some formal training in CQB and shotgun use? Please elaborate. |
October 3, 2010, 07:54 PM | #97 | |
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gtalk:renfes steamID: Sefner |
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October 4, 2010, 12:36 AM | #98 | |
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"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them." -Richard Henry Lee, Virginia delegate to the Continental Congress, initiator of the Declaration of Independence, and member of the first Senate, which passed the Bill of Rights. |
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October 4, 2010, 01:42 AM | #99 |
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HAMMERSTRIKE,
THAT STORY IS INTENSE!! I AM GLAD YOU ARE OK AS WELL AS YOUR FAMILY! Its all speculation, but I guess maybe these guys didn't hear you thru the solid walls when you told them you were armed.
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October 4, 2010, 02:49 AM | #100 |
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I have only had to draw a weapon for defense once:
In 2000, I was run off the road by a stupid driver, twice within 10 minutes, while returning from a shooting trip . The second time, the BG stopped his truck, and blocked my only exit from the barrow-pit he forced me into. As I was trying to figure out what the **** had just happened (70 mph to zero, off road, in a matter of seconds, while talking to the Highway Patrol on your cell phone, is a bit unnerving in a small car)... I looked in my rear-view mirror, and saw him handling what looked like a shotgun, while opening his door. I grabbed my Ruger P95, jumped out, and used my car for cover. The sound of me wracking the slide got his attention. The sight of me drawing down on him, even with his shotgun, was enough to get him to jump back in the truck and take off. The Highway Patrol told me the truck had been car-jacked, and the guy had shot a few other unfortunate souls. Yet, even with a shotgun, he fled from an armed citizen. Had he come any closer, or attempted to get the shotgun into firing position... he would have had a very bad day.
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