80 Year old Man attacked by burglars, One shot.

[captneil19]

Back when I was in le the old man would've have nothing to worry about.The day didn't tolerate things like,for instance a similar story to guys tried to rob this house an they got out but the owner shot both of them one in the back and one line the side,le shows up an tells them to drag them inside we will be back I 20 min.,so they come back an help them write the report and the day dismisses the case.OF course this was 40 years ago,I feel sorry for the old man,an yes he run his mouth too much.IF I was on the jury I would not vote guilty, sorry guys.I know they were fleeing the scene an he was in no immediate danger as they are going to call it ,but not guilty.

[OldMarksman]

Posted by captneil19: I know they were fleeing the scene an he was in no immediate danger as they are going to call it ,but not guilty.

?????

If they were in fact fleeing the scene, and if the man was in no immediate danger, and if he shot them knowingly and willingly, he was most certainly guilty.

The only remaining question is the severity of the charges.

[Grant D]

I heard on the news this morning the other suspect was apprehended, and is being charged with murder, as she was killed in the commission of a felony.
They didn't mention the older gentleman.

[jeager106]

If the female burglar was indeed pregnant & if she has relatives/children/ etc. there mostly likely will be a law suit. Even if a person is involved in a righteous shoot, no criminal charges, a civil suit most likely is coming.
Provided of course the elderly shooter has anything worth taking as a result of a civil action.
I've been sued 4 times that went all the way to jury. The experiences were freaking horrible & frankly I was a nervous wreck each time.
As a defendant in a civil suit I can speak with some authority that lawyers will find ways of making even a saint look awful.
I was never found culpable of anything despite the efforts of a well respected firm from Cleveland that almost convinced me that I most certainly did something wrong!
I would encourage anyone that considers lethal force for self defense to study court room survival & aftermath material.
Massad Ayood has some very good printed material that could be available on the net. There are others equally as good.
About the "old days" when cops might have said "shoot 'em & drag 'em inside, we'll be back in 20 minutes".
Poppycock! IF any copper was stupid enough to do such a thing then that cop has the I.Q. of a road killed 'possum! That kind of thing would absolutely & w/o a doubt, get out and burn everyone involved.
Doing such is a one way ticket to prison AND bankruptcy.

[Water-Man]

I'd give him a pat on the back. Score one for us older gentlemen.

[zxcvbob]

Quote:
Posted by zxcvbob: The old man didn't choose the time and the place for this to happen, the robbers did.
That is completely irrelevant.

But he did choose to chase them outside. Bad move.

Quote:
He was injured and probably not thinking totally clearly.

He almost certainly wasn't thinking clearly.
Bad decisions result in bad consequences.

So what do you want to do about it now, string him up?

[manta49]

I'd give him a pat on the back. Score one for us older gentlemen.

Give him a pat on the back for shooting a pregnant woman in the back killing her and her unborn child.

So what do you want to do about it now, string him up?

No he should be investigated just like anyone else who shot and killed someone and the law should take its course. If a criminal shoots and kills someone he should face the law, same goes for someone that killed someone claiming self defence if it turns out that it was not justified.

[OldMarksman]

So what do you want to do about it now, string him up?

The charging authority will decide what to do next. If the reports are accurate, he will undoubtedly be charged with having knowingly and willingly used deadly force that resulted in death, without lawful justification.

If he will not or cannot reach a plea agreement, the case will undoubtedly go to trial.

I would not predict what the jury will do. But if the reports are accurate, there appears to be likely little in the way of an objective basis for acquittal.

What happens if he is found guilty? Sentencing. I would not want to predict the terms.

IIRC, a pharmacist over in Oklahoma City ended up with a life sentence not too long ago under circumstances that do not appear all that different.

At his age, a much less severe sentence could amount to the same thing.

[Water-Man]

That's right Manta. Since when do pregnant women get a free pass to commit crime?

Not in my house.

[manta49]

Since when do pregnant women get a free pass to commit crime?

No One said they did get a free pass, we have all made mistakes in our lives she made a mistake and paid with her life. He knew she was pregnant and shot her anyway when she was not a threat. You might think someone deserves a pat on the back for killing an unborn baby I am glad that I don't.

[Water-Man]

Manta,

It seems you're having a problem with reading comprehension.

I didn't say he deserved it for shooting the baby. I did say he deserved it for shooting a criminal female who invaded his home and caused him injury.

[manta49]

I didn't say he deserved it for shooting the baby. I did say he deserved it for shooting a criminal female who invaded his home and caused him injury.

I have no problem comprehending, he knew she was pregnant and he shot her killing her and the baby you can't separate the two. I would not be giving him a pat on the back for shooting dead a defenceless woman in the back who was not a threat pregnant or not. When I have no compassion in that type of situation I will start to get concerned about myself.

The perpetrators began to flee the scene when the woman begged “Don’t shoot me, I’m pregnant! I’m going to have a baby!” Greer shot her anyway and had no regrets. “She was dead. I shot her twice, she best be dead.

[jasmith85]

Talking to the media was a bad idea but I think that his biggest problem is chasing them to the alley. I don't care if someone was in your house robbing you or not, if you have to chase them down to get a shot off that is no longer self defense.

[LockedBreech]

With the disclaimer that I don't know what happened in this particular situation because I wasn't there and the facts we have are unreliable...

You don't get to kill people because you think they deserve to die. You don't get to kill people because they DID put you in danger a minute ago. You don't get to kill people because they are the scum of the earth.

You are permitted to kill if you are at imminent risk of death or severe bodily harm or defending another from same. (this isn't a legal opinion but a generalization, the rule varies by jurisdiction).

That's it. This is a society, not anarchy. We have courts and laws to punish crimes and to look at the underlying facts to determine the truth. If a person decides to kill based on aggression, not based on a threat, even if they were the victim a moment ago, I have little sympathy and am happy with that person seeing at the very least manslaughter charges.

Reading the opinions of people who are almost gleeful over the death is, to me, horrifying, especially in the context of a gun forum where most or all of us presumably have lethal tools at our disposal and should be setting an example as firearm owners in a public forum. Using lethal force should always be the absolute last option used when there isn't another option available. It is nothing to look forward to and is certainly nothing to celebrate.

[Grant D]

I think we need to wait on the autopsy, they said she didn't look pregnant.
And God forbid a criminal saying she was pregnant to save her life.
Either way, he's going to have problems with the back shooting.

[manta49]

Reading the opinions of people who are almost gleeful over the death is, to me, horrifying, especially in the context of a gun forum where most or all of us presumably have lethal tools at our disposal and should be setting an example as firearm owners in a public forum. Using lethal force should always be the absolute last option used when there isn't another option available. It is nothing to look forward to and is certainly nothing to celebrate.

I couldn't agree more , you said it better than I could.

[zxcvbob]

It's a bad situation, but I don't see that prosecuting the old man makes it any better. He didn't go looking for trouble, it came looking for him and got more than it bargained for.

It's not up to me; we'll have to wait and see what the prosecutor says.

[SHR970]

How about some up to date local news? L.A. Times

This isn't over......

Edit to add More L.A. Times.

[Jim243]

and if the man was in no immediate danger,

That's pure popycock, He was attacked, this is the third time the house was broken into, what no danger of them coming back do you see.

I doubt that he will be prosecuted it would be a waste of taxpayer's money, 1) no jury will convict him, 2) Any finding other than "Not Guilty" will be a death sentience for the 80 year old, 3) since when do we take the side of the criminal over that of the victim. Trying to break into his safe, what you think these are not professional criminals? Where is the THIRD man or woman, the inside person that told then were they could find everything, and 4) I am sure we are going to find out these two have a rap sheet 2 miles long.

And I don't care after they jumped him (then games on) if they were one legged wearing nuns outfits hopping away, they should have been treated like any other mad dog on the street.

I suppose you think Bonnie Parker should not have been shot either.

Jim

[zxcvbob]

That's pure popycock, He was attacked, this is the third time the house was broken into, what no danger of them coming back do you see.

The legal problem is immediacy. Allegedly moving the body also isn't good.

I would still no-bill or acquit him.

Maybe the DA can get him to plead guilty to some kind of misdemeanor and the judge give him a year probation or something if justice demands that he be punished.

[OldMarksman]

Posted by Jim243:...what no danger of them coming back do you see

That has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with immediate danger, which is what is relevant.

Any finding other than "Not Guilty" will be a death sentience for the 80 year old,...

True, sad, and irrelevant.

Trying to break into his safe, what you think these are not professional criminals? ...I am sure we are going to find out these two have a rap sheet 2 miles long

.Completely irrelevant.

[JeffK]

Latest news I read is, the pregnancy claim was a lie, which is not surprising. I don't know the climate in Long Beach, but given that he's 80 years old, it was right in the midst of violent confrontation that broke his collarbone, and the records of the perps (probably meth addicts too, judging by the photos...), I'm betting he won't be charged, even though he made a huge misake in talking to the media. Other shooters in other circumstances, might be charged, especially in CA.

[Mokumbear]

In Florida, shooting an unarmed BG in retreat is a no-no.

On the other hand, he was an older gentleman and had been brutally beaten by these two.

In FL, there are more stringent laws for those who assault the elderly.
(As well as there should be).

I think that they will look at the big picture and his brutal beating
and take that into consideration.

That being said, exercise you right to remain silent no matter what LEO threatens you with.

Retain a lawyer and increase your chances of being treated fairly.

[jeager106]

Quote:
Talking to the media was a bad idea but I think that his biggest problem is chasing them to the alley. I don't care if someone was in your house robbing you or not, if you have to chase them down to get a shot off that is no longer self defense.

Talking to anyone in the manner the shooter did is an awful idea.
The pregnancy issue,if true could add a manslaughter charge, otherwise it's irrelevant. (except for really bad press)
If he did indeed leave the safety of his house to chase them down an alley to shoot one of them I'd guess the old fellow is in deep doo-doo.
Sad.
If you'd like I'll tell a sickening story of a case I handled in which the shooter went to prison for at least 3 yrs manditory & he was 76 yrs old shooting in what I thought was self defense. Anti-gun liberal judge ate him for lunch!

[Jim567]

The whole thing is a mess

They are trying to pass a law now that will enable prosecution of a mother to be harming her fetus with drugs ect.

Exactly why she was robbing the guy - to get drugs to harm her fetus.

Just a mess all the way around