December 15, 2014, 11:19 PM | #51 |
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Yup, sounds like a short stroking slide. Under powered ammo or limp wristing most likely.
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December 16, 2014, 02:06 AM | #52 |
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Remington doesn't make a golden saber JHP 115 grain load the 9mm saber loads are 124 and 147 grain loads.
Riding the slide comes to mind, but did you visually check the feed ram and chamber mouth for burrs before trying to chamber rounds or after you had issues?
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December 16, 2014, 03:50 AM | #53 | |
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My very own .45 USP Elite has choked on a significant number of the 400 rounds I've put through it, both FMJs and SD JHPs of various types, for a failure rate of ~6%. Almost entirely failures to feed, with the round jammed hard against the bottom of the feed ramp. The build quality of the pistol is evident, nonetheless, and I'm pretty confident that HK will be able to make it right without having to tear down and completely rebuild the gun. |
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December 16, 2014, 04:42 AM | #54 |
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Simple fix. Let someone with LOTS of experience shoot the gun.
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December 16, 2014, 09:20 AM | #55 | |
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December 16, 2014, 10:52 AM | #56 |
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Well, if you know what "limp wristing" is and you shoot other semi-autos, then that ought to be ruled out. The "Limp" is reducing the ability of the gun to re-cycle another round. The ammunition you are using is all standard stuff. It should be working okay.
I'm wondering if there is some sort of trouble with the spring being defective, under powered, or a manufacturing bur is impeding its operation; or, if not the spring then the linkage is gummed up. This would relate to the stove pipes. If the gun is also jamming on feeding a new round, I usually think first about the ammo being wrong or the lips on the magazine off but two magazines producing the same result would make me look elsewhere. Once again you are using standard loads- should not be a problem. If the spring is weak or not functioning or the linkage is gummed up and under powering things- might cause the trouble- I'm not sure. I'd call the manufacturer. Something is wrong. That gun has a good reputation for quality but nothing is infallible. |
December 16, 2014, 11:20 AM | #57 |
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Before sending your gun back to HK, try ordering a lighter recoil spring. It's a $5 part, and if it's the cause, it should get you back in action much quicker than sending it back.
If the recoil spring is too heavy, the slide moves back with less force than usual. This could mess up the timing and cause the shell casing to eject more softly, causing a stovepipe - especially of shooting low-powered target rounds. I have to confess - that was exactly my impression when the OP talked about oiling the feed ramp and slowly riding the slide forward to test feeding. |
December 16, 2014, 01:36 PM | #58 |
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The OP reeks of being a rank amateur when it comes to firearms. Always blaming the firearm for being the problem. Even one with an impeccable reputation for reliability (HK). The problem is most likely operator error. Either by improper shooting technique and/or using crappy ammo.
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December 16, 2014, 02:52 PM | #59 | |
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December 16, 2014, 03:21 PM | #60 | |
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HK will take care of you if it is the guns fault.
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December 16, 2014, 04:19 PM | #61 |
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I had a HK P30 that loved to spit brass into my chest. It ejected everything, just rearward at 6 o'clock. This was with Winchester NATO, Fiocchi 124 gr, and American Eagle 147 gr. Now it never jammed but it was annoying. I had run about 600 RDS of such ammo at this time. On calling HK they assured me that I obviously was running weak ammo. When I let them know what I was shooting they changed their tune and declared that I was limpwristing. Flat out on the phone. When I informed them that I had and do own USP Compacts, P2000s, all in 9mm and had been able to run those out of the box with 115 gr Federal Champion with no issues ever they declared that the recoil systems were different. The P2000/P30 come with the same manual and have the same disassembly (admittedly the recoil springs are different). When I asked about that I was told that I had been told what to do and the person on the phone stopped talking and waited for me to hang up, before which he said goodbye. Never at any point did they offer to take the gun in. This was I think 18-24 months ago. At the time I was doing about 8000 RDS of 9mm a year almost all with HKs. I finally broke it in by racking the slide about 200 times a day and leaving it locked back for a week (we have countless threads about how locking a slide back doesn't wear in springs, all I know is my experience). About a year later I bought another P30. I broke it in with 115 gr ammo no problem and it ran like a Swiss watch from day 1. I neither changed my shooting style nor exercise regimen during that time.
My point? I own mostly German cars. I am often told a certain bug or oddity is a "feature" and if I disagree then I am told I must not be using the car properly (luckily I now know the main service writer so well that he listens when I say there is a problem and takes me seriously). My dad has owned dozens of cars in his lifetime (family of long distance commuters). He says that if you tell a Japanese automaker they have an issue they apologize and fix it when possible. If you tell an American automaker they listen politely but mostly ignore you. If you tell a German automaker they become angry and ask you why you insist on misusing their car. This attitude is, to me, prevalent in my experience with HK. I don't think the OP is lying and I know what it is like to be called the crazy guy because "something like this doesn't happen". |
December 16, 2014, 05:07 PM | #62 |
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@Tunnelrat
I reached HK CS, called at around 10 15, they sent me a shipping label but did advise that it might take a little longer due to holiday. |
December 16, 2014, 05:29 PM | #63 |
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Thanks for the update, Gahaha! Please be sure to update us with your results! I suspect it will be pretty smooth sailing. Good luck!
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December 16, 2014, 05:47 PM | #64 |
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When you get it up and running okay please post what the trouble was- we're all on a continuous learning curve.
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December 16, 2014, 05:52 PM | #65 | |
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December 16, 2014, 05:59 PM | #66 |
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Lol. The same is true for just about any fan boy. I remember and I am sure you do too that the old limpwristing remark flew like crazy with the Gen 4 Glocks. I like HK products myself I just try and be realistic about mechanical devices.
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December 16, 2014, 06:20 PM | #67 | ||
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http://olive-drab.com/archive/NSIAD-86-122_9mm.pdf Pg 34: Quote:
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December 16, 2014, 06:58 PM | #68 | |
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December 16, 2014, 07:29 PM | #69 |
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HK certainly can make the occasional dud, but saying it literally stovepipes or fails to feed every other shot certainly makes me raise my eyebrows. Not saying it can't happen, and I'm definitely no HK fanboy.
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December 16, 2014, 07:31 PM | #70 | ||
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Further since one is an XD, another polymer frame pistol of the same caliber, one could also infer that he/she has at least an idea as to how not to limp wrist. At least that was how I read the OP. That said, I'm glad the OP had a good initial conversation with HK, and hopefully a solution is in the mix. Quote:
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December 16, 2014, 08:05 PM | #71 |
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There are always some who say 'limp wristing ' doesn't exist . I tried once to limpwrist with just trigger finger and thumb -it didn't happen ! I do know that some guns require more resistance to firing than others.Without the resistance the gun won't operate !
I've faced the " logic" of the "I never heard of it so it doesn't exist " people .I'm an engineer with long experience solving those type of problems . Been shooting for many years ,been to gunsmithing school etc. If I can't get a pistol to malfunction holding just with thumb and trigger finger I've been looking in the wrong places. The only thing I can think of is that some shooters are actually pulling back the gun as they fire !! A good possibility ,hard to see, feel.It would require sensitive equipment to prove it ! How else could you absorb the recoil so the gun wouldn't function ?? I've never heard this question asked ,I've asked this a couple of times but got no answer . Do some thinking !!!
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December 16, 2014, 08:06 PM | #72 |
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I have to say, I'm kind of surprised that so many people have experienced stovepipes on HK pistols as a result of limp-wristing. Again, I have only shot one HK pistol, a USP .40 compact that I've put about a thousand rounds through, but it's almost immune to operator error.
I mean not only have I limp-wristed it, but I've even given this gun to people with very little firearms experience to shoot and they have had 0 problems even in spite of visibly appearing to limp-wrist the gun. I took a friend of mine shooting for her first time. After letting her get the hang of it with some light .38 special loads on my Arminius Titan she said she wanted to try the USP. She went through three magazines with no problems at all. Are USP pistols really that prone to limp-wristing failures? |
December 16, 2014, 08:17 PM | #73 | ||
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_Uqtz2asE4 My wife is a small woman with tiny hands and not very strong wrists. I have seen her induce limpwrist malfunctions in Glocks. Despite rather poor technique she has never been able to do the same in any of my HKs. Limpwristing is sort of a catch all in terms of problem diagnosis, one I don't typically accept unless I witness it firsthand.
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December 16, 2014, 09:54 PM | #74 |
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Add to my post --- people do strange things when shooting . Best example is to put a blank in a shooters gun without him knowing . Afraid of the recoil especially a magnum the shooter may push the gun forward as he pulls the trigger . That barrel may end up pointing 45* downward when he hits the blank !
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December 16, 2014, 09:59 PM | #75 | |
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