why do fools sell guns

[andrewstorm]

i went to a local pawn shop to purchase a muzzleloader,as i asked about the smoke pole i was informed that i would have to do a ncic check,for a antique?:barf:,i am not a prohibited person,i have no criminal record,and i don't believe in gun Nazis making their own rules,as i am an american thru and thru,my uncle casmere was one of the soldiers who liberated Dachau,my grand dad ate rats to stay alive in the trenches of ww1,and i don't like any snot nosed punk who also says we don't take C&R LICENCES either,as i see this as a violation of my rights by a private enterprise,I will never deal with these nazis again,THE NAME IS (AUCTION FOR DOLLARS),OR THE CASH EXCHANGE,IN CLINTON TWNSHP MI. DID ANYONE ELSE HAVE TO DO AN NCIC CHECK FOR A MUZZELOADER?

[noelf2]

Well I understand your anger, but don't confuse ignorance with being a Nazi (not that Nazi's weren't ignorant too). They probably didn't know any better, and they aren't going to take a customer's word for it. Best to just tell them their error, and if they don't check it out, their loss (of a sale). Plenty of other places to buy a muzzleloader. If you just HAD to have the one at the pawn shop, why not just go through with the NCIC check even though it's stupid and unnecessary? A good deal is a good deal no matter how ignorant the salesman.

[Ozzieman]

I think I can explain why they require NCIC checks for any guns they sell with one word.
“Lawyers”
There is a pawn shop in the city I live in that won’t sell any type of weapon (other than knives) without a NCIC and there reason is liability. A friend went there to buy a cross bow for hunting deer and they required a NCIC. Not because of any law but liability, nothing more.
It sucks, but if I owned a pawn shop I would probably do the same thing.

[surbat6]

If the price is right, I'll go through the check. Who cares?
If the price is right and I don't like the clerk's (or manager's) attitude, I'll buy the gun, go through the check and not return.
If I can get the same or a better price elsewhere, I'll go elsewhere.
Since a dealer is in danger of losing his license, he makes the rules in his shop. The clerk didn't tell you he wouldn't sell you the gun, he said you'd have to get checked. If that's the policy at the pawnshop, there's no judgement about you personally.
Are you aware that a gun dealer can refuse to sell you a gun if he has suspicions about you? I see this as analogous to a bartender refusing to serve someone who appears already drunk.

[armoredman]

In AZ if you have a CCW permit, (one of the last uses for one), you don't have to do the check anyway. I used to mail order black powder, but got out of it a while ago. Sounds like a guy who is probably very versed in the values of guitars and gold, but really doesn't know that much about guns.

[SIGSHR]

If there is a problem with sales help, it should be taken up with the management. The management probably has never read the fine print in the BATFE regulations, and even the BATFE bureacrats don't understand them most of the time. Plus there may be state laws involved-New Jersey started requiring pistol purchase permits for BP handguns in the 1970s.

[FL-Flinter]

Speaking as a vendor, I can assure you, if it was a "lawyer" issue, they wouldn't be selling anything because there's just as much liability exposure no matter if you sell a belt-fed class III or a blender ... it all depends on who wants to push it and how far they want to push it. For that matter, I can go to your garage sale, buy some piece of crap I haggled you down from fifty cents to a quarter then sue you over it and it'll cost you hundreds, sometimes thousands just to defend yourself. Matter of fact, in most states I don't even have to buy an item from you, I can steal it and still sue your butt off.

The issue comes in dealing with the BATFE and trying to avoid creating problems for themselves. It doesn't matter what the law says, it matter how much of a prick the g-man/g-woman is. ML's don't require NCIC but since it's inventory in/out, subject to sales tax and so forth, a store owner doesn't want to loose money trying to explain why a "gun" was sold without a NCIC being done - worse yet, it could end up being a trip to the pokey followed by a court case even if no wrong was done .... that all costs time and money.

If I were you and you wanted the gun and the price was right, what's the big deal in doing the NCIC?

Now, if it's an issue with moron/jerk clerk, then you walk out like I did at Johnstone Supply. I've been in the industrial business for 17 years and did tens of thousands of dollars with JS but the worthless piece of crap they hired as a store manager doesn't take any of that into account while he ran his mouth about "Florida law" yet he does not know the law because the more he ran his mouth like a big shot, the more his stupidity showed. I tried to follow that incident up with corporate but they could care less so I took my business to a couple family-owned suppliers, both with awesome customer service and far better prices too - of course when I do consulting work, I make sure the business goes anywhere except Johnstone. Perhaps it's small potatoes to them but one moron employee cost the company about $300k in sales over the last three years.

[Hardcase]

One of the local auction companies in my neck of the woods does that, too, Andrew. At least they'll take my CCW instead of making the call. For some reason, when a dealer calls on me, they always have to talk to some second level person, so it's always more than just a couple of minute phone call. That was the main reason that I got my CCW - I got tired of a simple NICS call turning into a 15 minute hassle.

So, yeah, there are a few yellow forms for black powder guns with my name on them.

[Andy Griffith]

IIRC, it is illegal for a gunshop to run a background check as required under the "Brady Law" for any reason other than the sale of a firearm. The shop that ran that check for the crossbow would be in trouble if it was ever pursued by BATFE. Doubt they ever would though.

[arcticap]

One local gun shop has started to have folks who buy black powder guns fill out the Federal transfer form but without doing any background check.
The owner said that he just wants a record of the person that he's selling it too in case there's a crime or injury committed with the gun or whatever other reason that he has in mind.
He also has a sign that says that he reserves the right to refuse to sell to anyone that he wants.
I respect his right and comply with the red tape.
It only takes a minute and a little cooperation and we all get what we want in the end.
Although it does miff me a little bit that they never used to ask to fill any forms out to buy a muzzle loader. What's the average buyer to do? If I don't buy the gun then I would be punishing myself and not just him.
So I just bite the bullet and cooperate with a gun shop owner and staff that I consider to be friends who always give me good service, good deals and treat me well.
When it's a stranger that's forcing compliance with unnecessary red tape then I guess that it's a lot easier to get peeved about it.

[WALKERsD210]

I worked at a Pawn/Gun shop for a time, and learned one valuable lesson there. We did all we could to cater to the customer and make them feel that they were the reason we were there to start with. However when you have even the slightest possibility of the BATF come visit it was better to lose one customer than have a visit from them. When they come in they have no sense of humor at all. It is also called PYOA - Protect Your Own A$$

[maxvauderk]

My last pawnshop muzzlelaoder a ruger m-77 came pre loaded for me! I was not impressed, luckily it was pointed in a safe direction when I tested out the 209 ignition! Pawnshop folks are often used to dealing with people other than sportsmen and firearms enthuiasists,

[mykeal]

I gather you installed a primer and pulled the trigger without knowing whether there was a main charge in the barrel. If so, that's a serious mistake. You should have checked the contents of the barrel first. That's your fault, not the pawnbroker's.

[Jbar4Ranch]

A crossbow on a 4473? That's a new one on me.

[rantingredneck]

A crossbow on a 4473? That's a new one on me.

NC has a "pistol permit" system leftover from the Jim Crow era, controlled by county Sheriff's. About 15 years ago IIRC, a felon in the Guilford Co. area (I think) legally purchased a crossbow and used it in the pre-meditated murder of his wife/girlfriend. In response our nanny-state decided that no crossbow can be sold in this state without getting a pistol permit from the local Sheriff's department to ensure that a background check is completed prior to sale.

I say that, to say this. When my father-in-law bought his crossbow (as he could no longer draw a compound after open heart surgery), he got his pistol permit and went down to Bass Pro Shops in Concord, NC. The counter monkey there not only took the pistol permit, but also made him fill out the 4473.

I was flabbergasted personally..........

[maxvauderk]

My pointing it in a safe direction and discharging it , put no ones life in danger however if I filed a complaint it could have cost the pawnshop their FFL.

[andrewstorm]

freedom from restraint,and oversight,by morons that like to dictate to you their interpretation of whats right,and how they see it,thank god we have a bill of rights,and ill say that anyone who deprives any American of any of his or her civil rights otta stand trial for conspiracy,liability or no,the right to keep and bear arms,shall not be infringed.because some redneck decided to end it all over a woman,has no bearing on the infallible 2nd amendment,god save americe,i can pass the redneck check,and sometimes work for a senator,the private sector had better get the rules straight or get out of the gun buisness

[mykeal]

My pointing it in a safe direction and discharging it , put no ones life in danger however if I filed a complaint it could have cost the pawnshop their FFL.

So you take no responsibility for knowing if the gun was loaded or unloaded?

It's good that you treated it as a loaded gun, as we have all been taught to do. But that doesn't excuse you from the responsibility of knowing it's condition.

[tanksoldier]

i see this as a violation of my rights by a private enterprise

Not at all. It's almost impossible for a private enterprise or individual to violate your rights.

It is within the owner of that private enterprise's rights to sell or decline to sell to anyone for almost any reason, or no reason at all. In other words, he doesn't HAVE to do business with you unless you meet the conditions he sets.

[andrewstorm]

I guess the Denny's in S.C. didn't violate the civil rights of those black folk they refused to serve because they have the right to refuse service to anyone,you sound like a rookie cop,(its almost impossible to violate civil rights by a individual)BELIVE ME ITS DISCRIMINATION,BECAUSE THE SUPREME COURT SAYS THE RIGHT TO KEEP ARMS FOR PERSONAL PROTECTIONG,IN GARUNTEED CONTITIOUNALY anyony hwo can leagaly own a gun should be allowed to purchase a antique,or curio,relic,bb gun paint ball ect. ought not to be subjected to a criminal backgruond check (NCIC) in michigan its a felony to do a check without a active case, thats allright anyways i got a new B.P. RIFLE AT WALLMART NO CHECK THERE,ONLY TOOK THEM AN HOUR TO FIND THE BOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Shane Tuttle]

OK, I think we get the point. The original intent of having to do a background check for an antique rifle has been shoved aside for general ranting...without providing cognative script.

This one's run it's course. Closed.