.223 60gr Hornady VMAX loads - Trust Hodgdon or Hornady? :(

DaveInPA · December 12, 2008, 10:59 AM

This is driving me absolutely crazy. I'm trying to load some test rounds of a 60gr Hornady VMAX over Hodgdon Varget powder. Hodgdon lists a start charge of 25.0 grains and a max charge of 27.0 grains (compressed).

So, I loaded up 5 rounds each of 25, 25.5, 26.0, and 26.5 grains. Now today, I signed up for loaddata.com and printed out all of their .223 data. In the data pulled from Hornady's 7th edition manual, they list a start charge of 21.7 grains and max charge of 24.9 grains!!!!

So, in review, Hodgon says 25.0 - 27.0 grains
Hornady says 21.7 - 24.9 grains

So I think you see why I'm about ready to pull my hair out here. If I listen to Hodgdon, my loads should be ok as long as I test them from low to high charge and look for pressure signs.

But, if I listen to Hornady, ALL of the rounds are ABOVE MAX according to them!

This is CRAZY. Why are these sets of data so different? Who do I trust? The powder manufacturer or the bullet manufacturer???

Loader9 · December 12, 2008, 11:33 AM

If it were me, I'd shoot the 25.0 gr and look for pressure signs. According to the Hodgdon site, they used the V Max bullet and I would tend to go with them on it. FWIW, I'm shooting a 62 gr bullet and using Varget. The load is higher than 25.0 grs and it is not an extreme pressure load. Frankly, if I could get more powder in the case and seat the bullet I'd go up more.

Al Norris · December 12, 2008, 12:32 PM

Dave, some factors in the data your looking at.

In the Hornady 6th (no change in 7th) data, they are using
Charge: Varget, 21.7gr to 24.9gr
Case: Winchester
Primer: WSR
Rifle: Remington 700
Barrell: 26", 1 in 12" twist

In the Hodgdon data they are using:
Charge: Varget, 25.0gr to 27.0gr (compressed)
Case: Win
Primer: WSR
Rifle: Universal receiver
Barrel: 24", 1 in 12" twist

Just to complicate the data, look at Lyman's 48th:
Charge: Varget, 24.4gr to 27.2gr (compressed)
Case: Remington
Primer: Rem 7 1/2
Rifle: Universal receiver
Barrel: 24", 1 in 12" twist
Rifle: Colt AR15
Barrel: 20", 1 in 7" twist

What's a guy to do!

Because I've been loading for an AR platform, because I've noticed that Hornady's data always seems too conservative (never get close to their published velocities - for any firearm I shoot), I will generally look at Hodgdon's (for their powders) or to Lyman's. In my case, I used Lyman's data as a starting base simply because they used a Colt AR15 in their testing.

Granted that I've only been loading for about 4 years, but for the powders I use, Lyman's almost always have the data I need and their published velocity is close to what I actually get.

Personal question: Is there any particular reason you are using Varget?

DaveInPA · December 12, 2008, 12:43 PM

Antipitas, thank you very much. That is very helpful to see that the Lyman manual is so close to Hodgdon's data. I also appreciate the info regarding Hornady's load suggestions being too light.

I'm using Varget because I have it on hand for my 69gr Sierra Matchking loads. I also have BL(C)-2 on hand, but I've been told many times over that Varget is the better of the two powders for bullets 60gr and over. Why? What powder would you recommend for the 60gr V-Max?

Al Norris · December 12, 2008, 01:36 PM

I'll admit that I like Varget for 69gr Matchkings also.

For me I've found that H335 seems to do a better job for everything under that weight. Perhaps it's because it just performs better in -0 to 110 degree weather. Varget seems to perform better in larger calibers, like .308. But that's probably just my preferences talking.

wpcexpert · December 12, 2008, 05:11 PM

I haven't used Varget yet. I have shot up a pound of H335. It seemed to do good. Now this was out of my AR and with 55gr plinking loads.

For accuracy, I've been stuck on Benchmark. It seems to be doing well.

I was dabbling over on some varminter forums where they having some great results with Varget in the .223 and .204. Getting some screamer loads that were turning out very accurate. i just haven't gotten a pound yet to give it a go.

kmaltby1 · December 12, 2008, 07:16 PM

I load 26.4 gn of varget under the 60 gn v-max with no problems. This is out of an ar with 16" barrel.

Alleykat · December 12, 2008, 07:50 PM

Most accurate rounds I ever shot through my old Bushy Shorty were with Berger bullets and H335 powder. Shot some honest, five-shot groups @ 100 yds. Barrel is free-floated; JP trigger pulls at 2.5#.

Recently built an AR, using a RRA 20" 1-in-8 twist varmint barrel. Just got in a box of 250, 55gr V-maxes, and I'm going to load up some of 'em, using the 1# of 335 that I have left. Most of my loading for my AR has been with 2200, which is o.k., but it's just not as accurate, in my experience, as the slightly-slower 335.

December 12, 2008, 10:59 AM	#1
DaveInPA Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2008 Location: Berks County, PA Posts: 1,106	.223 60gr Hornady VMAX loads - Trust Hodgdon or Hornady? :( This is driving me absolutely crazy. I'm trying to load some test rounds of a 60gr Hornady VMAX over Hodgdon Varget powder. Hodgdon lists a start charge of 25.0 grains and a max charge of 27.0 grains (compressed). So, I loaded up 5 rounds each of 25, 25.5, 26.0, and 26.5 grains. Now today, I signed up for loaddata.com and printed out all of their .223 data. In the data pulled from Hornady's 7th edition manual, they list a start charge of 21.7 grains and max charge of 24.9 grains!!!! So, in review, Hodgon says 25.0 - 27.0 grains Hornady says 21.7 - 24.9 grains So I think you see why I'm about ready to pull my hair out here. If I listen to Hodgdon, my loads should be ok as long as I test them from low to high charge and look for pressure signs. But, if I listen to Hornady, ALL of the rounds are ABOVE MAX according to them! This is CRAZY. Why are these sets of data so different? Who do I trust? The powder manufacturer or the bullet manufacturer???

December 12, 2008, 05:11 PM	#6
wpcexpert Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2008 Location: Central Arkansas Posts: 791	I haven't used Varget yet. I have shot up a pound of H335. It seemed to do good. Now this was out of my AR and with 55gr plinking loads. For accuracy, I've been stuck on Benchmark. It seems to be doing well. I was dabbling over on some varminter forums where they having some great results with Varget in the .223 and .204. Getting some screamer loads that were turning out very accurate. i just haven't gotten a pound yet to give it a go. __________________ When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil. - Thomas Jefferson

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December 12, 2008, 11:33 AM	#2
Loader9 Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2008 Posts: 949	If it were me, I'd shoot the 25.0 gr and look for pressure signs. According to the Hodgdon site, they used the V Max bullet and I would tend to go with them on it. FWIW, I'm shooting a 62 gr bullet and using Varget. The load is higher than 25.0 grs and it is not an extreme pressure load. Frankly, if I could get more powder in the case and seat the bullet I'd go up more.

December 12, 2008, 12:32 PM	#3
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	Dave, some factors in the data your looking at. In the Hornady 6th (no change in 7th) data, they are using Charge: Varget, 21.7gr to 24.9gr Case: Winchester Primer: WSR Rifle: Remington 700 Barrell: 26", 1 in 12" twist In the Hodgdon data they are using: Charge: Varget, 25.0gr to 27.0gr (compressed) Case: Win Primer: WSR Rifle: Universal receiver Barrel: 24", 1 in 12" twist Just to complicate the data, look at Lyman's 48th: Charge: Varget, 24.4gr to 27.2gr (compressed) Case: Remington Primer: Rem 7 1/2 Rifle: Universal receiver Barrel: 24", 1 in 12" twist Rifle: Colt AR15 Barrel: 20", 1 in 7" twist What's a guy to do! Because I've been loading for an AR platform, because I've noticed that Hornady's data always seems too conservative (never get close to their published velocities - for any firearm I shoot), I will generally look at Hodgdon's (for their powders) or to Lyman's. In my case, I used Lyman's data as a starting base simply because they used a Colt AR15 in their testing. Granted that I've only been loading for about 4 years, but for the powders I use, Lyman's almost always have the data I need and their published velocity is close to what I actually get. Personal question: Is there any particular reason you are using Varget?

December 12, 2008, 12:43 PM	#4
DaveInPA Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2008 Location: Berks County, PA Posts: 1,106	Antipitas, thank you very much. That is very helpful to see that the Lyman manual is so close to Hodgdon's data. I also appreciate the info regarding Hornady's load suggestions being too light. I'm using Varget because I have it on hand for my 69gr Sierra Matchking loads. I also have BL(C)-2 on hand, but I've been told many times over that Varget is the better of the two powders for bullets 60gr and over. Why? What powder would you recommend for the 60gr V-Max?

December 12, 2008, 01:36 PM	#5
Al Norris Moderator Emeritus Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 9,660	I'll admit that I like Varget for 69gr Matchkings also. For me I've found that H335 seems to do a better job for everything under that weight. Perhaps it's because it just performs better in -0 to 110 degree weather. Varget seems to perform better in larger calibers, like .308. But that's probably just my preferences talking.

December 12, 2008, 07:16 PM	#7
kmaltby1 Member Join Date: December 4, 2008 Posts: 25	I load 26.4 gn of varget under the 60 gn v-max with no problems. This is out of an ar with 16" barrel.

December 12, 2008, 07:50 PM	#8
Alleykat Junior member Join Date: July 26, 2007 Posts: 3,668	Most accurate rounds I ever shot through my old Bushy Shorty were with Berger bullets and H335 powder. Shot some honest, five-shot groups @ 100 yds. Barrel is free-floated; JP trigger pulls at 2.5#. Recently built an AR, using a RRA 20" 1-in-8 twist varmint barrel. Just got in a box of 250, 55gr V-maxes, and I'm going to load up some of 'em, using the 1# of 335 that I have left. Most of my loading for my AR has been with 2200, which is o.k., but it's just not as accurate, in my experience, as the slightly-slower 335.