Pardner Protector Dilemma - Page 2

Dreaming100Straight · November 15, 2013, 01:44 PM

I agree that the OP is not a troll, but do not understand how semi-problematic is going to buy his new barrel from H&R.

Quote:

Additional barrels will be fitted to the proper frame if the frame passes a detailed inspection. This inspection is performed by the repairman at the time the frame is received

Quote:

We do not sell additional barrels outright. All barrels must be factory fitted.

Quote:

In order to obtain an additional barrel(s), the stock, forend and frame (receiver) must be sent to us so that they may be properly hand-fitted to the barrel, to be sure they are correctly head-spaced and proof-tested.

southernpride · November 15, 2013, 01:45 PM

I guess I've officially been bestowed the title of "troll", I'm heartbroken

Noreaster, your input is exactly what I was hoping to get. I planned on purchasing 2 Police Magnums (so my bill would be well above a thousand bucks). I am now seriously considering the PP. I figure if I purchase 2 of them, I'll be spending 400 bucks max. And if they do turn out to be lousy, it won't be too great of a loss, I'll consider it a learning experience.

Onward, I never even looked at the Winchester 1300, will do so now. Thank you everyone for the advice, even Soilwork.

Dreaming100Straight · November 15, 2013, 01:52 PM

Someone I respect just contacted me and suggested that a new thread be started about the cheapest place to buy a POSS (POS Shotgun). Do not get the wrong idea.

I do not think the Pardner is a POS, but I you are fooling yourself if you think you are getting an 870 for $200. If you don't care about the advantages of the 870, of which the majors are accessory barrels and the ability to use parts and accessories without fitting and modification, get a Pardner.

Dreaming100Straight · November 15, 2013, 02:00 PM

Noreaster, Understand the problem with department 870s. How much is due to them being abused by the department whereas you maintain your personal pp.

Which do you use for a regular duty weapon, the 870 or the PP. If the 870, why not the PP?

southernpride · November 15, 2013, 02:04 PM

Dreaming, I understand exactly what your saying and respect that. If I end up getting the PP and it turns out to be a POS, it's on me.

If the 870 Police Magnum price would hit around $550, I'd purchase them in a heartbeat. The Mom and Pop store owner said it's very unlikely to happen.

Dreaming100Straight · November 15, 2013, 02:16 PM

It isn't a POS. The biggest problem I see with one is the barrels. While some say other 870 parts work on it, some say they need to be fitted. The bolt is supposed to be most troublesome but I don't know if that is true.

If you just want something for HD and nothing else, you might be happy. If you want a short barrel and a 28" VR, it isn't the way to go IMO. Some want more than two barrels (18.5, 28.4, 24, and a slug barrel). The pardner is definitely not for them. You may not know how many barrels you want until later.

What is it Spock said, "Be well and prosper."

southernpride · November 15, 2013, 02:26 PM

It would only be for home defense.

SoilworK777 · November 15, 2013, 04:36 PM

Quote:

even Soilwork

No problem.

I posted that when I was at work, and not in a good mood. I apologize.

semi_problomatic · November 15, 2013, 06:58 PM

I don't know...maybe it's rocket surgery. You send your gun in and say I want xxx barrel. They fit it and send it back.

Omaha-BeenGlockin · November 15, 2013, 07:55 PM

The PP is so cheap you can just go buy a whole new gun for slightly more than a Remington accessory barrel-----barrel length problems solved.

My PP field model is a better gun than any new Express made---Remington should start stamping their name on the PP and be done with it. Sad to say.

Sarge · November 15, 2013, 08:08 PM

My impression was that the Pardner is a pretty decent shotgun for the money. It could stand a little refinement; the trigger was gritty and the base of the sight bead just barely protruded into the bore, perhaps enough to queer the patterns a little. None of these are problems for the hobbyist gunsmith. I am tempted to buy one, clean up the rough spots and have a set of choke tubes installed.

http://www.thesixgunjournal.net/hrs-...ump-protector/

No, it ain't a 870. It is worth its asking price.

Dreaming100Straight · November 15, 2013, 08:38 PM

Quote:

I don't know...maybe it's rocket surgery. You send your gun in and say I want xxx barrel. They fit it and send it back.

Time and costs sending in.
How long does it take to check the frame and fit the gun?
Charges by H&R beyond price of barrels.
Time waiting for return shipment.

I want a barrel for my 870 I can order one from numerous online gun dealers, from Remington, from Mossberg which also makes barrels for the 870, or I can walk into many gun shops and buy one. For instance Bass Pro stocks them.

Forget that down the road a shooter decides they need another barrel. Perhaps they want to shoot clays or hunt birds or deer. Take the time and expense of dealing with H&R. But what if your barrel is suddenly damaged. It happens and sometimes just before your shooting trip.

If this is a dedicated defense gun, consider that if you really have need of it just when it is off in to the factory.

Then go back to the availability of used 870 barrels. I got one in great condition for $85 including shipping and a choke from a private party online.

You said you treat your pardner llke crap. I don't think it is crap, but it sounds like we know what you really think of your pp.

Sarge's assessment is fair. It is worth the $200 IF IT FILLS YOUR NEEDS and you can pay someone to smooth it out OR DO THE WORK YOURSELF LIKE SARGE. If you may be needing additional barrels it is a bad choice.

Quote:

The PP is so cheap you can just go buy a whole new gun for slightly more than a Remington accessory barrel-----barrel length problems solved.

a. You don't have to buy a barrel from Remington. Less expensive ones are marketed for the 870 by Mossberg.

b. Buying another PP everytime you need a barrel can be expensive. Many need 4 or more barrels and you may find it difficult to even find a gun with a riled slug barrel or a 24 inch barrel.

c. Because the 870 is so popular you can often get a good deal on a slightly used barrel.

d. Consider resale value of both the guns and the barrels.

Noreaster · November 15, 2013, 10:22 PM

I understand what your saying about the abuse of dept issued shotguns. We went from Benelli to Rem for whatever reason and the Rem (could just be a bad batch,) have been troublesome. The NEF is very smooth and always works for me. I only fire about 75 rds of slugs through it per year whereas the issued 870s see more during Dept. quals. I bought mine for sale at Dick's for under $200. Being in MA the replacement barrels are a short drive away in Gardner MA. I did have to wait a long time for my scope mount to come in the mail. It shoots Winchester 1oz slugs so well I use it deer hunting in zone 10.

Dreaming100Straight · November 15, 2013, 10:54 PM

Thanks for explaining about the department shotguns, Noreaster. Being able to get those barrels takes care of the biggest negative for the Pardner.

Dreaming100Straight · November 16, 2013, 02:12 AM

Noreaster, What you say about the 870 sticking sounds like the chamber issues that for quite a while were common to the Express and I know one guy who had such a tight chamber on his new Wingmaster that the local
Remington service center had to ream it out. The problem is fixable but shouldn't exist. I hope your department gave Remington hell for it. Then again, how were the maintained? Have other departments had a similar problem with P guns as far as you know.

Sarge · November 16, 2013, 05:01 AM

Quote:

Noreaster, What you say about the 870 sticking sounds like the chamber issues that for quite a while were common to the Express and I know one guy who had such a tight chamber on his new Wingmaster that the local
Remington service center had to ream it out. The problem is fixable but shouldn't exist.

I have been fortunate to gain approval for new Glocks and Sig 556's in the past couple of years. When circumstances dictated we needed a few NFA length shotguns, I went with old copshop 870's. They checked out healthy, run slick and have been utterly trouble free.

Noreaster · November 16, 2013, 09:26 AM

The sticking occurred during qualifications when the guns heated up. Since we moved from Winchester to Federal slugs the problem has pretty much gone away. But aside from that the Pardner runs better with less short strokes induced by the shooter. We also tried out a 590a1 and it ran smoother than the Rems. The Remingtons we have have heavy parkerized finishes that require a healthy amount of lube during range day.

Dreaming100Straight · November 16, 2013, 11:39 AM

Ah. I don't know enough to say, but that heavy parkerization and or lube may be the culprit. That the problem occurs more with one ammo than the other suggests that the problem has to do with the od of the casings as well as the gun. I rin my 870 vewry dry but I am sure I don't stress it like you guys. Anyway, best to you and stay warm in MA.

Dreaming100Straight · November 16, 2013, 11:44 AM

Sarge, When I first got into shotguns I was warned to stay away from used and especially leo surplus, as the armorers sometimes scavenger all the good parts before they go on sale. Now that I know a bit more I wouldn't hesitate to pick one up the next time a local department has an auction. Anaheim PD had a great one not a long time ago, and where could be a better place to get one than the home of Donald Duck?

semi_problomatic · November 16, 2013, 04:38 PM

Dreaming....I think you just like to talk and don't care if you know what you're talking about or not.

Since barrels are the "big" deal now (since everything else has been disproved) you can use 870 barrels if you want to. All it takes is a 3" spacer.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....mp-870-Barrels

Dreaming100Straight · November 16, 2013, 10:05 PM

semi-p has a pm.

For those who wish to go to the expense and trouble of making the spacer, that works and there are other ways to make one. Does anyone know what if any effect these spacers have as far as creating rust or slop, if any. I for one wouldn't Bubbize a gun depended on for home defense. I do wonder why no one markets a spacer. Last I looked a couple of years ago no one did.

semi_problomatic · November 17, 2013, 04:07 PM

Replied to your pm

PP's are not exclusive in their barrel problems. Ever try to get a barrel for a 870 HD? The 870 HD mimics the pardner's 5+1 capabilities and barrel selection. But if they do start making new barrels for the 870HD, know what else they'll fit? http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/a.../t-547333.html
What about the mossberg 500? It cannot get a mag extension at all unless you get a whole new mag tube and a barrel to match it.

Dreaming100Straight · November 17, 2013, 04:29 PM

Semi-Problo: Go back and read the part of my PM about seeing no percentage in further discussion with you and wishing you a good life.

semi_problomatic · November 17, 2013, 05:43 PM

Didn't know this was your thread. When did you take ownership of it?

southernpride · November 18, 2013, 01:50 PM

Did some searching for more info on the PP and found this review. It goes into quite a bit of detail (very extensive) and is broken down into several sections (Most of it above my head, LOL!). The gun is taken apart and pieces photographed/described. Also patterning is reviewed.

I hope this will prove useful:

http://www.gunsumerreports.com/revie...otector_p1.php

Personally, I'm going to wait till next year and see if the Rem 870 Police Magnum will drop in price (crossing my fingers). If not, I'll revisit the PP again.

November 15, 2013, 06:58 PM	#34
semi_problomatic Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2009 Location: Ft. Polk Posts: 883	I don't know...maybe it's rocket surgery. You send your gun in and say I want xxx barrel. They fit it and send it back. __________________ Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...

November 15, 2013, 07:55 PM	#35
Omaha-BeenGlockin Senior Member Join Date: December 13, 2001 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 1,183	The PP is so cheap you can just go buy a whole new gun for slightly more than a Remington accessory barrel-----barrel length problems solved. My PP field model is a better gun than any new Express made---Remington should start stamping their name on the PP and be done with it. Sad to say. __________________ I take the leech that's bleeding me Can't stop to save my soul I take the leash that's leading me -------Metallica

November 15, 2013, 08:08 PM	#36
Sarge Senior Member Join Date: May 12, 2002 Location: MO Posts: 5,457	My impression was that the Pardner is a pretty decent shotgun for the money. It could stand a little refinement; the trigger was gritty and the base of the sight bead just barely protruded into the bore, perhaps enough to queer the patterns a little. None of these are problems for the hobbyist gunsmith. I am tempted to buy one, clean up the rough spots and have a set of choke tubes installed. http://www.thesixgunjournal.net/hrs-...ump-protector/ No, it ain't a 870. It is worth its asking price. __________________ People were smarter before the Internet, or imbeciles were harder to notice.

November 16, 2013, 04:38 PM	#45
semi_problomatic Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2009 Location: Ft. Polk Posts: 883	Dreaming....I think you just like to talk and don't care if you know what you're talking about or not. Since barrels are the "big" deal now (since everything else has been disproved) you can use 870 barrels if you want to. All it takes is a 3" spacer. http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....mp-870-Barrels __________________ Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...

November 16, 2013, 10:05 PM	#46
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	semi-p has a pm. For those who wish to go to the expense and trouble of making the spacer, that works and there are other ways to make one. Does anyone know what if any effect these spacers have as far as creating rust or slop, if any. I for one wouldn't Bubbize a gun depended on for home defense. I do wonder why no one markets a spacer. Last I looked a couple of years ago no one did. Last edited by Dreaming100Straight; November 16, 2013 at 10:36 PM.

November 15, 2013, 01:45 PM	#27
southernpride Member Join Date: July 5, 2013 Posts: 20	I guess I've officially been bestowed the title of "troll", I'm heartbroken Noreaster, your input is exactly what I was hoping to get. I planned on purchasing 2 Police Magnums (so my bill would be well above a thousand bucks). I am now seriously considering the PP. I figure if I purchase 2 of them, I'll be spending 400 bucks max. And if they do turn out to be lousy, it won't be too great of a loss, I'll consider it a learning experience. Onward, I never even looked at the Winchester 1300, will do so now. Thank you everyone for the advice, even Soilwork.

November 15, 2013, 01:52 PM	#28
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	Someone I respect just contacted me and suggested that a new thread be started about the cheapest place to buy a POSS (POS Shotgun). Do not get the wrong idea. I do not think the Pardner is a POS, but I you are fooling yourself if you think you are getting an 870 for $200. If you don't care about the advantages of the 870, of which the majors are accessory barrels and the ability to use parts and accessories without fitting and modification, get a Pardner.

November 15, 2013, 02:00 PM	#29
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	Noreaster, Understand the problem with department 870s. How much is due to them being abused by the department whereas you maintain your personal pp. Which do you use for a regular duty weapon, the 870 or the PP. If the 870, why not the PP?

November 15, 2013, 02:04 PM	#30
southernpride Member Join Date: July 5, 2013 Posts: 20	Dreaming, I understand exactly what your saying and respect that. If I end up getting the PP and it turns out to be a POS, it's on me. If the 870 Police Magnum price would hit around $550, I'd purchase them in a heartbeat. The Mom and Pop store owner said it's very unlikely to happen.

November 15, 2013, 02:16 PM	#31
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	It isn't a POS. The biggest problem I see with one is the barrels. While some say other 870 parts work on it, some say they need to be fitted. The bolt is supposed to be most troublesome but I don't know if that is true. If you just want something for HD and nothing else, you might be happy. If you want a short barrel and a 28" VR, it isn't the way to go IMO. Some want more than two barrels (18.5, 28.4, 24, and a slug barrel). The pardner is definitely not for them. You may not know how many barrels you want until later. What is it Spock said, "Be well and prosper."

November 15, 2013, 02:26 PM	#32
southernpride Member Join Date: July 5, 2013 Posts: 20	It would only be for home defense.

November 15, 2013, 10:22 PM	#38
Noreaster Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2011 Location: New England Posts: 1,449	I understand what your saying about the abuse of dept issued shotguns. We went from Benelli to Rem for whatever reason and the Rem (could just be a bad batch,) have been troublesome. The NEF is very smooth and always works for me. I only fire about 75 rds of slugs through it per year whereas the issued 870s see more during Dept. quals. I bought mine for sale at Dick's for under $200. Being in MA the replacement barrels are a short drive away in Gardner MA. I did have to wait a long time for my scope mount to come in the mail. It shoots Winchester 1oz slugs so well I use it deer hunting in zone 10.

November 15, 2013, 10:54 PM	#39
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	Thanks for explaining about the department shotguns, Noreaster. Being able to get those barrels takes care of the biggest negative for the Pardner.

November 16, 2013, 02:12 AM	#40
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	Noreaster, What you say about the 870 sticking sounds like the chamber issues that for quite a while were common to the Express and I know one guy who had such a tight chamber on his new Wingmaster that the local Remington service center had to ream it out. The problem is fixable but shouldn't exist. I hope your department gave Remington hell for it. Then again, how were the maintained? Have other departments had a similar problem with P guns as far as you know.

November 16, 2013, 09:26 AM	#42
Noreaster Senior Member Join Date: January 30, 2011 Location: New England Posts: 1,449	The sticking occurred during qualifications when the guns heated up. Since we moved from Winchester to Federal slugs the problem has pretty much gone away. But aside from that the Pardner runs better with less short strokes induced by the shooter. We also tried out a 590a1 and it ran smoother than the Rems. The Remingtons we have have heavy parkerized finishes that require a healthy amount of lube during range day.

November 16, 2013, 11:39 AM	#43
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	Ah. I don't know enough to say, but that heavy parkerization and or lube may be the culprit. That the problem occurs more with one ammo than the other suggests that the problem has to do with the od of the casings as well as the gun. I rin my 870 vewry dry but I am sure I don't stress it like you guys. Anyway, best to you and stay warm in MA.

November 16, 2013, 11:44 AM	#44
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	Sarge, When I first got into shotguns I was warned to stay away from used and especially leo surplus, as the armorers sometimes scavenger all the good parts before they go on sale. Now that I know a bit more I wouldn't hesitate to pick one up the next time a local department has an auction. Anaheim PD had a great one not a long time ago, and where could be a better place to get one than the home of Donald Duck?

November 17, 2013, 04:07 PM	#47
semi_problomatic Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2009 Location: Ft. Polk Posts: 883	Replied to your pm PP's are not exclusive in their barrel problems. Ever try to get a barrel for a 870 HD? The 870 HD mimics the pardner's 5+1 capabilities and barrel selection. But if they do start making new barrels for the 870HD, know what else they'll fit? http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/a.../t-547333.html What about the mossberg 500? It cannot get a mag extension at all unless you get a whole new mag tube and a barrel to match it. __________________ Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...

November 17, 2013, 04:29 PM	#48
Dreaming100Straight Senior Member Join Date: February 3, 2013 Posts: 1,235	Semi-Problo: Go back and read the part of my PM about seeing no percentage in further discussion with you and wishing you a good life.

November 17, 2013, 05:43 PM	#49
semi_problomatic Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 2009 Location: Ft. Polk Posts: 883	Didn't know this was your thread. When did you take ownership of it? __________________ Freedom's just a word. If I'm gonna die for a word, my word is jello...

November 18, 2013, 01:50 PM	#50
southernpride Member Join Date: July 5, 2013 Posts: 20	Did some searching for more info on the PP and found this review. It goes into quite a bit of detail (very extensive) and is broken down into several sections (Most of it above my head, LOL!). The gun is taken apart and pieces photographed/described. Also patterning is reviewed. I hope this will prove useful: http://www.gunsumerreports.com/revie...otector_p1.php Personally, I'm going to wait till next year and see if the Rem 870 Police Magnum will drop in price (crossing my fingers). If not, I'll revisit the PP again.