Scary Encounter recently..... - Page 3

skipjack · January 12, 2007, 09:24 AM

Hopefully,if nothing else, the lesson was learned to not allow entry into your home by a stranger. No one gains entry to my home, unless I know them or are expecting a repairman, etc. I'm glad you and your girlfriend are okay.

AR15fan, are you just trying to stir the pot?

Are you opposed to folks defending themselves with firearms?

What state do you live in that prohibits you from possessing a firearm in your domicile?

Do you actually know what "premeditated murder" means?

AR15FAN · January 12, 2007, 09:28 AM

No skipjack, I am just voicing my opinion as is everyone else. Just because I am for responsible gun ownership and use and don't mindlessly +1 every gun issue doesn't mean I am "stirring" any pot.

Premeditate:
Function: verb
transitive verb : to think about and revolve in the mind beforehand
intransitive verb : to think, consider, or deliberate beforehand

gvf · January 12, 2007, 09:56 AM

[original deleted in error-gvf]

Sorry Galiarm, your reaction to the whole thing after the fact - together with what the police did NOT do, (charge him with anything) - brings me back to my original reaction. You're happy a man who you pulled a gun on and were prepared to shoot suffered that fear, and was put in handcuffs and had to deal with the cops and, thereby, was taught a lesson. However, the police after their investigation, charged him with nothing, found nothing criminal in his actions, not even trespass, and verified he was what he said he was: a salesman. "So, they had to let him go" is your ultimate response. Yes, maybe everything you did was justified by whatever the impression you had was, I don't know, but I feel the satisfaction you express, the lack of relief that you escaped killing someone which - as it turns out - would have been unnecessary.... disturbing and aggressive.

I am sure of one obligation that goes with carrying a lethal weapon: it is to reflect and be aware before it is put on, and after we have the misfortune to be involved in an "episode" if that happens. So that the enormity of what we can do in an instant is fully appreciated, that we know our knee-jerk motivations, our biases, our fears, and be able to distinguish those from the reality of what we are seeing. Then we can act wisely in the heat of the moment. All this seems missing in you. So, in answer to your original request for comments and suggestions on what else you could have done: mine is that you seem irresponsible, and you could get rid of the self-righteous gloating and give this event the quiet and grave reflection it deserves.

bye and luck
gvf

GalilARM · January 12, 2007, 10:12 AM

Irresponsible? Self Righteous Gloating? Disturbingly Aggressive? Where in the world did you get those ideas? I'm relieved that it ended the way it did, without any violence. I was scared as hell when I had to point a gun at this stranger who was where he didnt belong. I was nervous and scared, but I didnt let any "emotions or knee jerk responses" get the best of me. I just meant that I wish he would have gotten in a little trouble for what he did, rather than just a lecture. How is that disturbingly aggressive or irresponsible? Are you saying that I wish I could have killed the guy? Because that couldn't be further from the truth. ReRead the original post and maybe you'll understand. I think I used my head, kept my cool, and handled it as best and as responsibly as I could have.

Prophet · January 12, 2007, 11:37 AM

ARM,

You might as well quit tring to talk to gvf and AR15 because they are just trying to cause trouble and/or get you thread closed most of us know you did the right thing you know you did the right thing we should just leave it at that and quit giving them what they want.(us to get upset and start a flame war).

AR15FAN · January 12, 2007, 11:56 AM

I am not trying to get the thread closed, dialogue is good. And since when is having a differing opinion a flame war? I am just having conversation in a forum, you take the course of action you like its your life and responsibility. No skin off my nose.....

Prophet · January 12, 2007, 12:02 PM

Well, AR your just trying to stir up trouble the other guy is trying to start a flame war with his Obscene comments, exactly what post were you reading where you got that ARM wanted to kill this guy and was sad the he let the moment pass him? thats what I want to know are we reading the same thing here.

Slideman · January 12, 2007, 12:07 PM

Rare is the professional author whose descriptions of people and events give the reader the sense of being there, of visualizing the surroundings and feeling the tension. It would be almost beyond belief that an author on this board could relay all he felt, saw and what led him to certain decisions in the space of the paragraph or two he is willing to write and we are willing to read.

A little lattitude in interpreting the written word here may be prudent. There may have been a lot more clues leading to a decision that a threat was imminent... or not. Awful hard to judge from this viewpoint.

As amateur writers and readers of same, it might be better to suggest that the actor in the play we didn't witness should be considering certain other possible answers to conclusions he made. Certainly reinforcing the awesome responsibility surrounding the use, contemplated use or even inferred use of lethal force is appropriate everywhere on this forum.

gvf · January 12, 2007, 01:08 PM

Re Prophet: We were asked to comment by a poster about a potentially lethal situation between three people. And by extension, the aftermath of others that could occur involving still other people since the one carries a lethal weapon and will continue to. I did.

Your being upset because it dosen't agree with what you consider a communal mindset is secondary to me, nor that anyone is upset. I gave an honest response for all the people involved, and that could be in a future incident.

AR15FAN · January 12, 2007, 01:20 PM

Prophet, it seems to me you are stirring up more trouble then anyone else. Its a forum which means exchanging ideas, not just +1'ing every pro gun comment. The free and open exchange of ideas, freedom of speech, its one reason we have guns.

brj · January 12, 2007, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Hopefully,if nothing else, the lesson was learned to not allow entry into your home by a stranger. No one gains entry to my home, unless I know them or are expecting a repairman, etc.

Bingo. If it's an unsolicited visit I don't even bother to answer the door. Same goes with answering the phone. When I'm home it's my space and my time and if you are uninvited then I have to option to acknowledge or not to acknowledge.

However, if someone rings the doorbell at what I would consider an unusual hour of the day, I would check it out and would not be empty handed.

skipjack · January 12, 2007, 02:44 PM

Ar15fan wrote:

"Yeah just happened to have this loaded gun in my hand your honor. I don't think so, in the sober light of day in a courtroom with a jury that you are trying to sell this bill of goods to, good luck"

Ar15fan, I am curious to know if your definition of "responsible" gun ownership includes defending yourself in your home. Should one be forced to have all firearms unloaded and secure at all times?

How could one commit premeditated murder on a person he/she does not know and has no idea when said victim would appear?

Dino. · January 12, 2007, 02:54 PM

Before a moderator locks this thread, please allow me to say this ...

There is nothing wrong with a friendly debate as long as it's done intelligently and respectfully.

If someone can't handle the topic of discussion or the fact that thier opinions are being challenged, then maybe they should reconsider responding.

As far as the topic at hand (GalilARM) ...
Yes, this salesman may have been a nusiance, but in all honesty, all I'm really hearing is that you were intimidated by this person's size, color, and what he MAY have been capable of doing.
Next time call the police.

Capt. Charlie · January 12, 2007, 03:01 PM

OK, as so often happens when opinions reach an impasse, emotions are running high and folks are getting angry.

I think this one needs a "cooling down" period, so I'm closing it for 24 hours.

During that time, count to ten in multiple languages.

After that time, think twice, post once.

Capt. Charlie · January 13, 2007, 07:59 PM

Thread re-opened. I hope everybody's nice & chilled now.

PLEASE!..... Keep it civil!

threefivesevenmag · January 13, 2007, 08:33 PM

As stated earlier, it's good no person was hurt during this incident.

If someone is at your door and you do not believe they should be there...do not open it. Have your dialogue with them behind the locked door. It is fine to be armed, but opening the door to a potential threat puts you behind the curve.

Also, people can see if you are looking through your peephole, as your form will block light exiting the hole.

Again, your home is your castle, keep it safe. Unlocking the door to someone you find suspect, isn't great for any situation.

rgoers · January 13, 2007, 08:45 PM

Glad no one was hurt. From your description, I doubt this was an ordinary salesman. He was up to no good, if you ask me.

Sounds like you really kept your cool in both circumstances. Good job! As for answering the door armed - good for you! Where I live, there's no requirement to retreat. I can understand why others in less gun-friendly areas might take issue with what you did... unnecessarily, of course.

Donovan655 · January 14, 2007, 12:49 PM

GalilArms showed as much restraint as he could. Texas has property and home defense laws that are legendary in their leniency towards people defending themselves, their property, or others with deadly force. Mr. Magazine salesman should be thankful all he got were some handcuffs.

I live in College Station which is "near" Waco and I've had the same experience with people hasseling me at all hours for random and petty crap. I'm fairly certain that the overwhelming majority of the people that come to my door for cigs, a quarter, selling magazine subscriptions, etc... are casing my apt.

BillCA · January 14, 2007, 10:22 PM

I will typically take a handgun with me to answer the door when an unexpected visitor knocks or the person outside is someone I don't know. To some, this may smack of paranoia. But I live alone, have been burglarized before (and lost a dozen guns), have computers & stereo gear among other nice stuff and it's not too unusual to see the PD heilo orbiting a high-risk car stop within 3 blocks. Should someone force their way in and seize control, I might be at a serious disadvantage to stop them.

When answering the door with the gun out of display or view, the only way anyone will know it is there is by their applicaton of force where it it neither wanted or desired. There is no intent here at all, except to prevent the visitor from illegally entering the residence and posing a threat to me. A person at the door who forces their way inside is clearly a threat to me and others present because, in my view, because he is betting his freedom on his ability to control the persons in the house and prevent them from calling the PD and he's already shown inclination to violence by forcing his way inside.

What I don't understand is the theory that a person, in their own home, who picks up a firearm in response to an unexpected knock at their door, could be charged with a premeditated murder, if the person at the door forces their way into the home. Murder, by our state's definition requires "malice aforethought" and an unlawful killing. It also states that homicide is justified "against one who manifestly intends and endeavors, in a violent, riotous or tumultuous manner, to enter the habitation of another...", such as forcing the door open against the owner's resistance.

GalilARM · January 15, 2007, 12:54 AM

Amen.

gvf · January 15, 2007, 02:09 AM

Just to review the facts:

A man pulls his gun on another on two occasions -(the second with a third person present) - because he feels this man is is an immient threat to their lives. A lethal weapon involved, it is possible any or all of the three people could be killed.

The police investigate and find that: the man was not lethally threatening anyone and he is not charged with this serious crime; he is not charged with a less serious crime; he is not charged with a violation of a local ordinance. His record reveals no past history of placing anyone under lethal threat or he would have been held for further investigation. His statement during the incident that he was a door-to door salesman reveals he is a door-to-door salesman. He is not held for further investigation but is released quickly, perhaps at the scene.

The person who pulled the gun has a sole reflection on the incident and the discrepancy of what he felt the situation was, and what it actually was - (including the inherent possibility he could have killed an innocent person or any of those present); the reflection is a desire that more would have happened to the man he pulled the gun on.

Take care and adios,
GVF

GalilARM · January 15, 2007, 05:03 AM

GVF, we addressed your point of view once before.....Firstly, a gun was pulled ONCE, and that was when he would not leave her house. I explained this in the original post and then explicitly in subsequent posts.

Once again, the police told me that I was in the right, and that it was not the first time the man had been trouble. Why they didnt take further action is beyond me. Not my problem though, I guess.

This guy attempted to push his way into my apartment, claiming he was selling magazines. Maybe he was actually selling magazines, but the fact remains, his behavior was WAY out of line and I acted in accordance to a threat that I thought existed. I had no idea whether this guy was ACTUALLY a salesman or whether he was a home invader. His behavior certainly lent itself to the latter. If thats not enough, he forced entry into her house, remained inside AFTER BEING ASKED TO LEAVE REPEATEDLY. If thats not a threatening situation then I dont know what is. I had no idea whether this guy was a real magazine salesman or some armed robber.

I can understand an aggressive seller who wants to make that extra buck, but what I do not understand and will not tolerate is someone who pushes his way into the home of a young woman, thinking he can intimidate her into buying a magazine subscription or something.

I'll say it one more time. The police told me I was perfectly justified, I think I was perfectly justified, she thought it was more than perfectly justified, and if given another opportunity, I would have handled this the exact same way. Thanks for your opinions, but they are just that, your opinions. I rest my case.

threegun · January 15, 2007, 07:24 AM

Galilarm, Please stop explaining yourself. Both of those guys would have answered the door with a gun on or in hand if they saw a large out of place stranger at their door. If they didn't then they just made a huge tactical bo-bo. You did what most here would have done. No man has the right to push his way into your home. Once in no man should wonder why a gun is in his face. If you were forced to shoot him you are at no more risk of prosecution than the home owner who hears a noise outside and arms himself to investigate and is forced to shoot. It is ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

What can you do better? Be more forceful in your voice commands. Don't be afraid to hurt someones feelings. Being polite is construed as weakness by some. Get the #$@%$ out of my house NOW. Other than that you did good.

gvf · January 15, 2007, 08:43 AM

Deleted by gvf

Lutefisk · January 15, 2007, 08:47 AM

If you don't know who it is, don't open the door. Stay on alert at all times for people on the street-it can be easy to drop your guard.
Although I totally understand emotionally, your tactics of opening the door with your .45 in hand were the result of a distracted mind.
I've got a better story for you that happened about 10 years ago. It was the night after Christmas and the wife and I are awoken by someone aggressively pounding the door and juggling the doorknob of our condo. Guess who it was? Some poor man with Alzheimers (senility) who lived in the complex. Now, I didn't open the door, I called the police and that's why everything ended happily- I found out who he was (not a criminal) and why he was doing what he was doing (demented).
Believe me though, I sympathize with you and wish there weren't the ever increasing number of parasites (some dangerous, some merely very stupid) in our society. Stay on Yellow or Orange at all times.

January 12, 2007, 09:24 AM	#51
skipjack Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2002 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 140	Hopefully,if nothing else, the lesson was learned to not allow entry into your home by a stranger. No one gains entry to my home, unless I know them or are expecting a repairman, etc. I'm glad you and your girlfriend are okay. AR15fan, are you just trying to stir the pot? Are you opposed to folks defending themselves with firearms? What state do you live in that prohibits you from possessing a firearm in your domicile? Do you actually know what "premeditated murder" means? Last edited by skipjack; January 12, 2007 at 09:25 AM. Reason: spelling

January 12, 2007, 09:28 AM	#52
AR15FAN Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2006 Posts: 179	No skipjack, I am just voicing my opinion as is everyone else. Just because I am for responsible gun ownership and use and don't mindlessly +1 every gun issue doesn't mean I am "stirring" any pot. Premeditate: Function: verb transitive verb : to think about and revolve in the mind beforehand intransitive verb : to think, consider, or deliberate beforehand __________________ Use your most powerful weapon first, your brain..... Last edited by AR15FAN; January 12, 2007 at 10:19 AM.

January 12, 2007, 09:56 AM	#53
gvf Junior member Join Date: July 30, 2006 Posts: 1,226	Sorry but... [original deleted in error-gvf] Sorry Galiarm, your reaction to the whole thing after the fact - together with what the police did NOT do, (charge him with anything) - brings me back to my original reaction. You're happy a man who you pulled a gun on and were prepared to shoot suffered that fear, and was put in handcuffs and had to deal with the cops and, thereby, was taught a lesson. However, the police after their investigation, charged him with nothing, found nothing criminal in his actions, not even trespass, and verified he was what he said he was: a salesman. "So, they had to let him go" is your ultimate response. Yes, maybe everything you did was justified by whatever the impression you had was, I don't know, but I feel the satisfaction you express, the lack of relief that you escaped killing someone which - as it turns out - would have been unnecessary.... disturbing and aggressive. I am sure of one obligation that goes with carrying a lethal weapon: it is to reflect and be aware before it is put on, and after we have the misfortune to be involved in an "episode" if that happens. So that the enormity of what we can do in an instant is fully appreciated, that we know our knee-jerk motivations, our biases, our fears, and be able to distinguish those from the reality of what we are seeing. Then we can act wisely in the heat of the moment. All this seems missing in you. So, in answer to your original request for comments and suggestions on what else you could have done: mine is that you seem irresponsible, and you could get rid of the self-righteous gloating and give this event the quiet and grave reflection it deserves. bye and luck gvf Last edited by gvf; January 12, 2007 at 10:02 AM. Reason: re-post due to mistaken deletion

January 12, 2007, 11:56 AM	#56
AR15FAN Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2006 Posts: 179	I am not trying to get the thread closed, dialogue is good. And since when is having a differing opinion a flame war? I am just having conversation in a forum, you take the course of action you like its your life and responsibility. No skin off my nose..... __________________ Use your most powerful weapon first, your brain.....

January 12, 2007, 01:08 PM	#59
gvf Junior member Join Date: July 30, 2006 Posts: 1,226	Common Views Re Prophet: We were asked to comment by a poster about a potentially lethal situation between three people. And by extension, the aftermath of others that could occur involving still other people since the one carries a lethal weapon and will continue to. I did. Your being upset because it dosen't agree with what you consider a communal mindset is secondary to me, nor that anyone is upset. I gave an honest response for all the people involved, and that could be in a future incident. Last edited by gvf; January 12, 2007 at 01:09 PM. Reason: spelling

January 12, 2007, 10:12 AM	#54
GalilARM Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2007 Location: TX Posts: 267	Irresponsible? Self Righteous Gloating? Disturbingly Aggressive? Where in the world did you get those ideas? I'm relieved that it ended the way it did, without any violence. I was scared as hell when I had to point a gun at this stranger who was where he didnt belong. I was nervous and scared, but I didnt let any "emotions or knee jerk responses" get the best of me. I just meant that I wish he would have gotten in a little trouble for what he did, rather than just a lecture. How is that disturbingly aggressive or irresponsible? Are you saying that I wish I could have killed the guy? Because that couldn't be further from the truth. ReRead the original post and maybe you'll understand. I think I used my head, kept my cool, and handled it as best and as responsibly as I could have.

January 12, 2007, 11:37 AM	#55
Prophet Junior member Join Date: November 20, 2006 Location: Great State of TEXAS Posts: 244	ARM, You might as well quit tring to talk to gvf and AR15 because they are just trying to cause trouble and/or get you thread closed most of us know you did the right thing you know you did the right thing we should just leave it at that and quit giving them what they want.(us to get upset and start a flame war).

January 12, 2007, 12:02 PM	#57
Prophet Junior member Join Date: November 20, 2006 Location: Great State of TEXAS Posts: 244	Well, AR your just trying to stir up trouble the other guy is trying to start a flame war with his Obscene comments, exactly what post were you reading where you got that ARM wanted to kill this guy and was sad the he let the moment pass him? thats what I want to know are we reading the same thing here.

January 12, 2007, 12:07 PM	#58
Slideman Member Join Date: December 20, 2006 Location: Idaho Posts: 78	Rare is the professional author whose descriptions of people and events give the reader the sense of being there, of visualizing the surroundings and feeling the tension. It would be almost beyond belief that an author on this board could relay all he felt, saw and what led him to certain decisions in the space of the paragraph or two he is willing to write and we are willing to read. A little lattitude in interpreting the written word here may be prudent. There may have been a lot more clues leading to a decision that a threat was imminent... or not. Awful hard to judge from this viewpoint. As amateur writers and readers of same, it might be better to suggest that the actor in the play we didn't witness should be considering certain other possible answers to conclusions he made. Certainly reinforcing the awesome responsibility surrounding the use, contemplated use or even inferred use of lethal force is appropriate everywhere on this forum.

January 12, 2007, 01:20 PM	#60
AR15FAN Senior Member Join Date: November 17, 2006 Posts: 179	Prophet, it seems to me you are stirring up more trouble then anyone else. Its a forum which means exchanging ideas, not just +1'ing every pro gun comment. The free and open exchange of ideas, freedom of speech, its one reason we have guns. __________________ Use your most powerful weapon first, your brain.....

January 12, 2007, 02:44 PM	#62
skipjack Senior Member Join Date: December 10, 2002 Location: Maryland, USA Posts: 140	Ar15fan wrote: "Yeah just happened to have this loaded gun in my hand your honor. I don't think so, in the sober light of day in a courtroom with a jury that you are trying to sell this bill of goods to, good luck" Ar15fan, I am curious to know if your definition of "responsible" gun ownership includes defending yourself in your home. Should one be forced to have all firearms unloaded and secure at all times? How could one commit premeditated murder on a person he/she does not know and has no idea when said victim would appear? Last edited by skipjack; January 12, 2007 at 02:45 PM. Reason: spelling

January 12, 2007, 02:54 PM	#63
Dino. Junior member Join Date: November 2, 2006 Posts: 908	Before a moderator locks this thread, please allow me to say this ... There is nothing wrong with a friendly debate as long as it's done intelligently and respectfully. If someone can't handle the topic of discussion or the fact that thier opinions are being challenged, then maybe they should reconsider responding. As far as the topic at hand (GalilARM) ... Yes, this salesman may have been a nusiance, but in all honesty, all I'm really hearing is that you were intimidated by this person's size, color, and what he MAY have been capable of doing. Next time call the police.

January 12, 2007, 03:01 PM	#64
Capt. Charlie Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 24, 2005 Location: Steubenville, OH Posts: 4,446	OK, as so often happens when opinions reach an impasse, emotions are running high and folks are getting angry. I think this one needs a "cooling down" period, so I'm closing it for 24 hours. During that time, count to ten in multiple languages. After that time, think twice, post once. __________________ TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does *your* post make *you?* I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do. --Capt. Charlie

January 13, 2007, 07:59 PM	#65
Capt. Charlie Moderator Emeritus Join Date: March 24, 2005 Location: Steubenville, OH Posts: 4,446	Thread re-opened. I hope everybody's nice & chilled now. PLEASE!..... Keep it civil! __________________ TFL Members are ambassadors to the world for firearm owners. What kind of ambassador does *your* post make *you?* I train in earnest, to do the things that I pray in earnest, I'll never have to do. --Capt. Charlie

January 13, 2007, 08:33 PM	#66
threefivesevenmag Senior Member Join Date: May 8, 2005 Posts: 406	As stated earlier, it's good no person was hurt during this incident. If someone is at your door and you do not believe they should be there...do not open it. Have your dialogue with them behind the locked door. It is fine to be armed, but opening the door to a potential threat puts you behind the curve. Also, people can see if you are looking through your peephole, as your form will block light exiting the hole. Again, your home is your castle, keep it safe. Unlocking the door to someone you find suspect, isn't great for any situation.

January 13, 2007, 08:45 PM	#67
rgoers Member Join Date: November 29, 2006 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 51	Did fine Glad no one was hurt. From your description, I doubt this was an ordinary salesman. He was up to no good, if you ask me. Sounds like you really kept your cool in both circumstances. Good job! As for answering the door armed - good for you! Where I live, there's no requirement to retreat. I can understand why others in less gun-friendly areas might take issue with what you did... unnecessarily, of course.

January 14, 2007, 12:49 PM	#68
Donovan655 Senior Member Join Date: February 17, 2006 Posts: 138	GalilArms showed as much restraint as he could. Texas has property and home defense laws that are legendary in their leniency towards people defending themselves, their property, or others with deadly force. Mr. Magazine salesman should be thankful all he got were some handcuffs. I live in College Station which is "near" Waco and I've had the same experience with people hasseling me at all hours for random and petty crap. I'm fairly certain that the overwhelming majority of the people that come to my door for cigs, a quarter, selling magazine subscriptions, etc... are casing my apt.

January 14, 2007, 10:22 PM	#69
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	I will typically take a handgun with me to answer the door when an unexpected visitor knocks or the person outside is someone I don't know. To some, this may smack of paranoia. But I live alone, have been burglarized before (and lost a dozen guns), have computers & stereo gear among other nice stuff and it's not too unusual to see the PD heilo orbiting a high-risk car stop within 3 blocks. Should someone force their way in and seize control, I might be at a serious disadvantage to stop them. When answering the door with the gun out of display or view, the only way anyone will know it is there is by their applicaton of force where it it neither wanted or desired. There is no intent here at all, except to prevent the visitor from illegally entering the residence and posing a threat to me. A person at the door who forces their way inside is clearly a threat to me and others present because, in my view, because he is betting his freedom on his ability to control the persons in the house and prevent them from calling the PD and he's already shown inclination to violence by forcing his way inside. What I don't understand is the theory that a person, in their own home, who picks up a firearm in response to an unexpected knock at their door, could be charged with a premeditated murder, if the person at the door forces their way into the home. Murder, by our state's definition requires "malice aforethought" and an unlawful killing. It also states that homicide is justified "against one who manifestly intends and endeavors, in a violent, riotous or tumultuous manner, to enter the habitation of another...", such as forcing the door open against the owner's resistance. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

January 15, 2007, 12:54 AM	#70
GalilARM Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2007 Location: TX Posts: 267	Amen.

January 15, 2007, 02:09 AM	#71
gvf Junior member Join Date: July 30, 2006 Posts: 1,226	Just to review... Just to review the facts: A man pulls his gun on another on two occasions -(the second with a third person present) - because he feels this man is is an immient threat to their lives. A lethal weapon involved, it is possible any or all of the three people could be killed. The police investigate and find that: the man was not lethally threatening anyone and he is not charged with this serious crime; he is not charged with a less serious crime; he is not charged with a violation of a local ordinance. His record reveals no past history of placing anyone under lethal threat or he would have been held for further investigation. His statement during the incident that he was a door-to door salesman reveals he is a door-to-door salesman. He is not held for further investigation but is released quickly, perhaps at the scene. The person who pulled the gun has a sole reflection on the incident and the discrepancy of what he felt the situation was, and what it actually was - (including the inherent possibility he could have killed an innocent person or any of those present); the reflection is a desire that more would have happened to the man he pulled the gun on. Take care and adios, GVF Last edited by gvf; January 15, 2007 at 02:25 AM. Reason: spelling

January 15, 2007, 05:03 AM	#72
GalilARM Senior Member Join Date: January 6, 2007 Location: TX Posts: 267	GVF, we addressed your point of view once before.....Firstly, a gun was pulled ONCE, and that was when he would not leave her house. I explained this in the original post and then explicitly in subsequent posts. Once again, the police told me that I was in the right, and that it was not the first time the man had been trouble. Why they didnt take further action is beyond me. Not my problem though, I guess. This guy attempted to push his way into my apartment, claiming he was selling magazines. Maybe he was actually selling magazines, but the fact remains, his behavior was WAY out of line and I acted in accordance to a threat that I thought existed. I had no idea whether this guy was ACTUALLY a salesman or whether he was a home invader. His behavior certainly lent itself to the latter. If thats not enough, he forced entry into her house, remained inside AFTER BEING ASKED TO LEAVE REPEATEDLY. If thats not a threatening situation then I dont know what is. I had no idea whether this guy was a real magazine salesman or some armed robber. I can understand an aggressive seller who wants to make that extra buck, but what I do not understand and will not tolerate is someone who pushes his way into the home of a young woman, thinking he can intimidate her into buying a magazine subscription or something. I'll say it one more time. The police told me I was perfectly justified, I think I was perfectly justified, she thought it was more than perfectly justified, and if given another opportunity, I would have handled this the exact same way. Thanks for your opinions, but they are just that, your opinions. I rest my case.

January 15, 2007, 07:24 AM	#73
threegun Junior member Join Date: March 1, 2006 Location: Tampa,Fl Posts: 4,000	Galilarm, Please stop explaining yourself. Both of those guys would have answered the door with a gun on or in hand if they saw a large out of place stranger at their door. If they didn't then they just made a huge tactical bo-bo. You did what most here would have done. No man has the right to push his way into your home. Once in no man should wonder why a gun is in his face. If you were forced to shoot him you are at no more risk of prosecution than the home owner who hears a noise outside and arms himself to investigate and is forced to shoot. It is ridiculous to suggest otherwise. What can you do better? Be more forceful in your voice commands. Don't be afraid to hurt someones feelings. Being polite is construed as weakness by some. Get the #$@%$ out of my house NOW. Other than that you did good.

January 15, 2007, 08:43 AM	#74
gvf Junior member Join Date: July 30, 2006 Posts: 1,226	last time... Deleted by gvf Last edited by gvf; January 15, 2007 at 01:55 PM. Reason: deleted by gvf

January 15, 2007, 08:47 AM	#75
Lutefisk Member Join Date: January 15, 2006 Posts: 48	Simple If you don't know who it is, don't open the door. Stay on alert at all times for people on the street-it can be easy to drop your guard. Although I totally understand emotionally, your tactics of opening the door with your .45 in hand were the result of a distracted mind. I've got a better story for you that happened about 10 years ago. It was the night after Christmas and the wife and I are awoken by someone aggressively pounding the door and juggling the doorknob of our condo. Guess who it was? Some poor man with Alzheimers (senility) who lived in the complex. Now, I didn't open the door, I called the police and that's why everything ended happily- I found out who he was (not a criminal) and why he was doing what he was doing (demented). Believe me though, I sympathize with you and wish there weren't the ever increasing number of parasites (some dangerous, some merely very stupid) in our society. Stay on Yellow or Orange at all times.