The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Skunkworks > Handloading, Reloading, and Bullet Casting

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old April 21, 2007, 09:19 PM   #1
Kato_Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 26, 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 212
powder scale inaccuracies

I have a lee bar scale. I throw the powder, trickle up til it comes level. then I lift the pan off and then set it back on and it weighs too much. Most times when I lift the pan off then set it back on it shows a different weight. is there something wrong with mine or is this the lee scale???
Kato_Guy is offline  
Old April 21, 2007, 11:11 PM   #2
Mike Irwin
Staff
 
Join Date: April 13, 2000
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 41,374
Do you have a set of scale check weights?

I'd suggest you get one, as the way it sounds right now you don't know what charge weight you're throwing.
__________________
"The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza

Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.
Mike Irwin is offline  
Old April 21, 2007, 11:28 PM   #3
benedict1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2006
Location: Southern California
Posts: 245
Is the Vernier scale moving when you take the pan off and put it back on? Is the scale level; does it move at all when you take the pan on and off? All this can cause changes in weight.

The scale is extremely sensitive--.05 gr difference can move the pointer several millimeters--0.1 gr can move it nearly a centimeter.

How much movment are you getting and what size is the charge? If it is moving only 0.1 gr or so in weigts of 15-20 grains, forget it.

I have repeatedly checked mine against Lyman test weights and it weighs right on the money in the range from 2 to 20 grains.

Last edited by benedict1; April 21, 2007 at 11:29 PM. Reason: spelling
benedict1 is offline  
Old April 22, 2007, 01:25 AM   #4
T. O'Heir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2002
Location: Canada
Posts: 12,453
"...the pan..." Did you zero the scale with the empty pan on or off? Is the scale level?
T. O'Heir is offline  
Old April 22, 2007, 06:44 AM   #5
qajaq59
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2005
Posts: 139
This may sound silly, but is your scale anywhere near an open window or AC vent. It takes very little breeze to make a scale react strangely.
qajaq59 is offline  
Old April 22, 2007, 07:16 AM   #6
Kato_Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 26, 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 212
OK.. I will start from the bottom up...


I always close the window when working on my bench...

I zero the scale with the pan on..


I make sure I dont bump the scale when I take the pan off and put it back on I zero my scale before use. when is is off it is maybe off by about half inch I know it is not off by a lot. I will check into some check weights.

thanks for the fast replies. It sounds like its may only be off by about a.1 grains or so

I will get the check weights to double check tho

thanks
kyle
Kato_Guy is offline  
Old April 22, 2007, 09:36 AM   #7
Art Eatman
Staff in Memoriam
 
Join Date: November 13, 1998
Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA
Posts: 24,798
I fairly often blow gently on the pan, just to make sure it's going to settle at zero. I'd rather have the beam swing and settle, rather than ooch to zero as I trickle in the last few granules of powder.

However, if you're consistent in the amount of "over" or "under", you can just allow for that when you set the weight to begin with.

Art
Art Eatman is offline  
Old April 22, 2007, 09:51 AM   #8
sundog
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 22, 1999
Location: Green Country, OK
Posts: 782
How many times did you remove the pan (with powder) and put it back on? Try repeated weighings with the same.

A good scale should be accurate, sensitive, and repeatable. Accuracy means just that. Does it weigh a known weight correctly. Sensitive. Zero the scale with empty pan. Drop a quarter in square of 20# bond paper in the pan. Does the pointer move? Repeatable means that subsequent charges (provided your dump is working correctly) measure the same.

If your scale does not meet these requirements, look a getting a different scale.

One other thought. Check the balance point for cleanliness.
__________________
safety first
sundog is offline  
Old April 22, 2007, 09:59 AM   #9
Jim Watson
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 25, 2001
Location: Alabama
Posts: 18,486
Art is right. "Ootching" up to zero with a trickler will most likely give you more powder than setting a full pan on the scale. But he is also right that if the balance is good it will be consistent. I went back to a balance for trickling loads; the digital "snapping" from tenth to tenth was even worse about giving a higher reading when the pan was lifted and set back down. (Then I bought one of the automatic dispensers, but that was because I am lazy, not because I was not getting good loads with a trickler.)
Jim Watson is offline  
Old April 22, 2007, 10:15 AM   #10
crazylegs
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 29, 2004
Posts: 145
What you have is a failure of your scale to repeat. Check weights will do nothing to solve that problem. I bought one of those years ago and never used it as I had the same problem. I even built a leveling platform to ensure everything was set up correctly. Come to find out, the knife edge was walkin up the V as the beam was moving up and down. I have no warm fuzzy feelings for that pos. That scale is still sitting, boxed up, in my desk drawer. I won't even give it away. I bought a Dillon beam scale right after, and never looked back.
Crazylegs
crazylegs is offline  
Old April 22, 2007, 10:34 AM   #11
cheygriz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 11, 2002
Location: high up in the rockies
Posts: 2,289
Buy a scale made by Ohaus scale company. These are sold by Lyman, RCBS and, I think others. Quality doesn't cost, it pays!

And buy scale check weights.
__________________
If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.
cheygriz is offline  
Old April 22, 2007, 11:48 AM   #12
brickeyee
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2004
Posts: 3,351
Check the knife edges for burs and sharpness, and check the pivots to be sure they are clean.
No lubricant of any type should be on the scale bearing points.
It needs to be clean and dry.

Damaged knife edges are a common cause of repeatability errors.
brickeyee is offline  
Old April 22, 2007, 02:41 PM   #13
castnblast
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 2, 2006
Location: Corpus Christi TX
Posts: 1,148
I've wondered the same w/ mine... I was getting some incredibly tight groups, now they are fairly inconsistant on my 22-250. I have not ruled the scale out yet though...It may be a scope problem in my case. I trickle mine, and it seems to have worked great in the past. So in otherwords, I don't know what the problem is, but I read this post because I was wondering the same thing...
__________________
VEGETARIAN...old indian word for bad hunter
castnblast is offline  
Old April 22, 2007, 04:47 PM   #14
Kato_Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 26, 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 212
if it is below and I trickle a little bit into the pan I bump the pan (not the stand) to get the beam to move a little and see where it settles. I eventually get it to settle where I want it. It would just be nice if I could throw low and trickle the last little bit to the needed grain weight.

kyle
Kato_Guy is offline  
Old April 23, 2007, 06:33 PM   #15
ShootingNut
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,475
Is this the Old Days

Just wondering, why do some prefer using a "pan and scale" to dump and weigh powder charges?
Is it because of going with single stage loading equipment, rather than the press with a disk powder drop? Not that they are always "nut's on", but to me seem decades ahead of the pan and scale routine.
That said, I'm new to reloading and have a lot to learn for sure, so I'm not being critical, just curious and learning.
Best
ShootingNut is offline  
Old April 23, 2007, 06:51 PM   #16
cheygriz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 11, 2002
Location: high up in the rockies
Posts: 2,289
Quote:
Just wondering, why do some prefer using a "pan and scale" to dump and weigh powder charges?
I use the pan and scale to SET the powder measure, and to check the measure every 100 rounds.

I agree with you completely on weighing charges, and trickling. It makes no sense to me.

My HB 6MM Remington shoots less than 1/2 MOA with ammo loaded on a Dillon 650.

I've always figured that if bench rest shooters don't weigh charges, there's no point in me doing it.
__________________
If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.
cheygriz is offline  
Old April 23, 2007, 07:06 PM   #17
Kato_Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 26, 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 212
I have a little thing that people call obsessive compulsive disorder. I weigh every load just for my own sanity and that way I am 100% sure that everything is correct.
Kato_Guy is offline  
Old April 23, 2007, 07:46 PM   #18
Zippy06
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 1, 2007
Location: S.E. MI
Posts: 117
You could always send back to Lee. They are only $19.99. I'm sure they will check it.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=712103

Or.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpag...eitemid=713372

On the subject of OCB.
I try to be perfect. That's as good as it gets.
__________________
Zippy06.
U.S.N. Vet. NRA.
Lee Turret(circa 1986). 9mm, .357 Mag., .40 S&W, .223 Rem., .30-30 Win., .308 Win.
G17, S&W 686, G22C, Colt H-Bar, Marlin, Savage 10FP. Be safe. Be happy
Zippy06 is offline  
Old April 23, 2007, 07:50 PM   #19
Kato_Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 26, 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 212
my wife told me I should buy a digital scale. I was looking at the pact powder scale and the lyman, but am still thinking on which one to get.
Kato_Guy is offline  
Old April 23, 2007, 07:51 PM   #20
Edward429451
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2000
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 9,494
I do it like Art does. ootch it up to close and blow in the pan to forgo sticking.
My scale is over 15 - 20 yrs old and I actually prefer it to digitals or disks. I have more confidence in my balance scale than the new stuff. It's finicky a little and its like it has a sort of personality that has to be catered to but its solid on the money when I'm done. To set the measure, for single stage maxish loads. Target loads get measured.
Edward429451 is offline  
Old April 24, 2007, 05:21 AM   #21
qajaq59
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2005
Posts: 139
After all is said and done you really are going to need another scale of some kind. Or else get the factory to work on that one until you're sure it's ok.
An inaccurate scale is not only frustrating, it can be downright dangerous. I can't think of anything that would mess up your shooting more then the thought that "Maybe I have too much powder in this case."
qajaq59 is offline  
Old April 24, 2007, 06:26 PM   #22
TEDDY
Junior member
 
Join Date: December 10, 2006
Location: MANNING SC
Posts: 837
scales

lee scales work well,however sometimes any scale can have a problem.I hade a lee that had a problem sent it to factory they sent me a new one end of problem.
TEDDY is offline  
Old April 24, 2007, 08:14 PM   #23
Kato_Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 26, 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 212
I just got back from the local sprting goods store and bought the rcbs range pro. I threw some powder and my lee measured it at 28.0gr and the rcbs digital read it at 27.9gr that is pretty close I guess.

I threw a couple more and after looking at the digital scale I couldn't believe that the lee powder thrower always threw within a grain one way or the other.

Shoulda never doubted my LEE equipment. What do I do with my rcbs now keep it return it what??

and NO I am not going to sell it to YOU for half price!!!

happy loading!
kyle
Kato_Guy is offline  
Old April 24, 2007, 08:25 PM   #24
ShootingNut
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 27, 2006
Location: Wisconsin
Posts: 1,475
kato

" threw a couple more and after looking at the digital scale I couldn't believe that the lee powder thrower always threw within a grain one way or the other."

Your Lee varies a whole grain, one way or the other? I thought mine was bad with 2-4 tenths variance.
ShootingNut is offline  
Old April 24, 2007, 08:59 PM   #25
Kato_Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 26, 2006
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 212
sorry I meant to say a tenth!!!

yea a grain would be bad!!!
Kato_Guy is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:23 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2021 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Page generated in 0.11928 seconds with 10 queries