Degrease Finished Rounds?

Tanzer · February 22, 2007, 11:40 PM

I got just a touch tired of the dirty blast of smoke from my reloads. I've been using Win 231 - 4.0 grains for a 125grain RN lead bullet. I know this powder can do this @ low pressure, and the max is 4.4 grains. I also realize that the lead is coated with lube. Overall sizing/seating depth is within .004" of specs, and I don't want to seat deeper for fear of overly-increased pressure. I was talking to a fellow reloader about bumping up the charge, and he suggested adding a touch of degreaser (like gun scrubber) to my media and tumbling the finished rounds for a half hour or so. He's pretty sure of himself, but I thought I might get a few more opinions.
Anyone have any?
Thanks in advance.

mc223 · February 22, 2007, 11:57 PM

I've never heard of such nonsense. It does not matter how spotlessly sparkling clean you cases are or which primer or which higher charge of whatever powder you use. You will get smoke from a cast bullet.
Try some plated bullets like Berrys or Raniers. They smoke less, or just use jacketed bullets.

mrawesome22 · February 23, 2007, 12:14 AM

How would tumbling finished cartridges make them smoke less

Tanzer · February 23, 2007, 01:37 AM

His idea was that the lube on the lead was causing more smoke than need be. His reloads don't smoke much at all, and this method is what he swears by. I'm just worried that such a dry round may do some harm. I know a few folks who tumble finished rounds for appearance, some who add dryer sheets, BB's or other stuff to their liking, All I've ever added is a touch of Dillon brass cleaner to corn cob before reloading. I'd be willing to give it a try and report back, but I wondered if anyone heard anything negative about such an endeavor. I'd hate to say; "wish I didn't do that".

snuffy · February 23, 2007, 01:46 AM

He's FOS! Taking the lube off a cast boolit will result in leading! It's there for a reason. Gunscrubber is a highly volatile solvent, it evaporates in seconds. It wouldn't do a thing.

There's nothing wrong with tumbling for 15-20 minutes to take sizing lube off cases, won't hurt a thing.

mrawesome22 · February 23, 2007, 02:02 AM

Well, usually none of the bullet you see on a finished round touches the rifling. So you would still have lube on the rest of the bullet that is in the case. This is what did not make sense to me. Even if there was lube on the cone, there is no heat or friction to produce smoke from this part of the bullet. Which would be the only part being cleaned on a finished round. I'm thinking he meant tumble just the bullets before making cartridges. Which would defeat the purpose of buying pre-lubed bullets. I'd try a different powder.

Tanzer · February 23, 2007, 02:17 AM

There's a whole lot more that could be worse than a little smoke. I was just looking to make a better round.
Thanks!

cheygriz · February 23, 2007, 12:31 PM

I tumble jacketed bullet rifle loads 15-30 minutes in corncobs and mineral spirits to remove the lube from the cases, but I wouldn't tumble lead bullet loads. Not only would it not accomplish anything, but you would contaminate your media with lead.

Unless you shoot mostly on an indoor range, why let the smoke bother you????

If your cases get dirty, tumble or wash them. Clean your gun after shooting. Smokey pistol loads are no big deal. Just enjoy the shooting, and don't let the smoke bother you!

ziggy222 · February 26, 2007, 06:50 PM

putting a loaded round in a vibratory case cleaner so the primers can vibrate against each other and build up static electricity?not a good idea,however not unheard of.a friend of mine does it and has'nt been hurt yet,but my reloading manuel says that gunpowder has a coating and case cleaners vibrate that coating off and changes things like its burn rate.however i'm no one to judge,we used to spray lit lighter fluid at each others hands and feet as kids and put it out before we could get burned.

Ruger4570 · February 26, 2007, 10:41 PM

You better never get into shooting Black Powder loads if smoke bothers you.

inkie · February 27, 2007, 01:39 AM

Perhaps his fired rounds did not have as much smoke. Because: He may be using a cleaner powder

snuffy · February 27, 2007, 01:49 AM

Quote:

putting a loaded round in a vibratory case cleaner so the primers can vibrate against each other and build up static electricity?not a good idea,however not unheard of.a friend of mine does it and has'nt been hurt yet,but my reloading manuel says that gunpowder has a coating and case cleaners vibrate that coating off and changes things like its burn rate.however i'm no one to judge,we used to spray lit lighter fluid at each others hands and feet as kids and put it out before we could get burned.

Or urban myth. One of those that sounds right, so everyone just goes on repeating it.

The primers cannot hit together with enough force to detonate.

As for the coating being removed or altered, I and others have done tests by tumbling shells for hours, and some for months with no adverse affects. Ammunition companies do it all the time just before packaging.

Dogjaw · February 27, 2007, 06:00 AM

I don't get complicated when cleaning lube off of loaded ammo. It's called a rag. I wipe them as I put them in their boxes.

snuffy · February 27, 2007, 11:33 AM

Quote:

I don't get complicated when cleaning lube off of loaded ammo. It's called a rag. I wipe them as I put them in their boxes.

Uh huh, but when you do a couple thousand with a dillon, it gets old in a hurry!

benedict1 · February 27, 2007, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Uh huh, but when you do a couple thousand with a dillon, it gets old in a hurry!

Or a Lee Load Master!

I just put together 600 rounds of 45 ACP. Wiping them off could get tiresome--

rwilson452 · February 27, 2007, 06:46 PM

Only 600? That wasn't much of a task.

benedict1 · February 27, 2007, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Only 600? That wasn't much of a task.

Only had a little time before my nap--can't miss my nap!

ziggy222 · February 28, 2007, 02:42 AM

see this is why i read every reloading manuel cover to cover more than once.in 50th sierra anniversary edition rifle manuel on page 22 of the ballistic service section it states this as one of the common questions sierra technitions get- Q:i have tarnished ammo.can i just put it in my tumbler to clean it up? A: no aside from the possibility of a sharply pointed bullet striking a primer and causing a detonation,the deterent coating may be altered which speeds the burning rate.most tumblers would require the ammo to be tumbled for quite some time before it was thoroughly cleaned,possibly long enough to cause some break down of the powder or its deterrent coating.the simple answer here is no,don't do it.sierra rifle manuel 4th ed. i just did'nt want you to think i was spitting out old info from grandpa or making stuff up.maybe some powders act different so they have to put that down as a general rule.i have'nt tried to find out.

Dogjaw · February 28, 2007, 05:33 AM

I'll stick with my "tiresome" old rag. Thank you Ziggy.

Shoney · March 1, 2007, 09:14 PM

Commercial loaders have tumbled loaded rounds in cement mixers with shreaded newprint for decades. Not only does the newsprint degrease, it is abrasive enough to add a final polish.

TEDDY · March 4, 2007, 01:17 PM

SHONEY is right you can tumble loaded cases,what he is doing is clean lube off exposed lead.most all commercial reloaders do this.factories do this the military does not allow it to be done as they want to see the color of anneling.powder is tumbled with grafite to coat the grains if you tumble cart in loaded rds it would seem that coating would stay.

cheygriz · March 4, 2007, 01:42 PM

I tumble loaded rounds in a rotary Thumler's model B tumnbler. When I was in the commercial reloading business, we used concrete mixers, but still used corncobs and mineral spirits.

rwilson452 · March 4, 2007, 10:09 PM

I use a rag with Alcohol

Sorry denatured not grain.

February 22, 2007, 11:40 PM	#1
Tanzer Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2007 Posts: 884	Degrease Finished Rounds? I got just a touch tired of the dirty blast of smoke from my reloads. I've been using Win 231 - 4.0 grains for a 125grain RN lead bullet. I know this powder can do this @ low pressure, and the max is 4.4 grains. I also realize that the lead is coated with lube. Overall sizing/seating depth is within .004" of specs, and I don't want to seat deeper for fear of overly-increased pressure. I was talking to a fellow reloader about bumping up the charge, and he suggested adding a touch of degreaser (like gun scrubber) to my media and tumbling the finished rounds for a half hour or so. He's pretty sure of himself, but I thought I might get a few more opinions. Anyone have any? Thanks in advance. __________________ Only the ignorant find ignorance to be bliss. Only those of us who know better will suffer from it.

February 23, 2007, 01:37 AM	#4
Tanzer Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2007 Posts: 884	mrawesome... His idea was that the lube on the lead was causing more smoke than need be. His reloads don't smoke much at all, and this method is what he swears by. I'm just worried that such a dry round may do some harm. I know a few folks who tumble finished rounds for appearance, some who add dryer sheets, BB's or other stuff to their liking, All I've ever added is a touch of Dillon brass cleaner to corn cob before reloading. I'd be willing to give it a try and report back, but I wondered if anyone heard anything negative about such an endeavor. I'd hate to say; "wish I didn't do that". __________________ Only the ignorant find ignorance to be bliss. Only those of us who know better will suffer from it.

February 23, 2007, 01:46 AM	#5
snuffy Senior Member Join Date: May 20, 2001 Location: Oshkosh wi. Posts: 3,055	He's FOS! Taking the lube off a cast boolit will result in leading! It's there for a reason. Gunscrubber is a highly volatile solvent, it evaporates in seconds. It wouldn't do a thing. There's nothing wrong with tumbling for 15-20 minutes to take sizing lube off cases, won't hurt a thing. __________________ The more people I meet, the more I love my dog They're going to get their butts kicked over there this election. How come people can't spell and use words correctly?

February 23, 2007, 02:02 AM	#6
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	Well, usually none of the bullet you see on a finished round touches the rifling. So you would still have lube on the rest of the bullet that is in the case. This is what did not make sense to me. Even if there was lube on the cone, there is no heat or friction to produce smoke from this part of the bullet. Which would be the only part being cleaned on a finished round. I'm thinking he meant tumble just the bullets before making cartridges. Which would defeat the purpose of buying pre-lubed bullets. I'd try a different powder. Last edited by mrawesome22; February 23, 2007 at 02:52 AM.

February 23, 2007, 02:17 AM	#7
Tanzer Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2007 Posts: 884	I guess I get the point There's a whole lot more that could be worse than a little smoke. I was just looking to make a better round. Thanks! __________________ Only the ignorant find ignorance to be bliss. Only those of us who know better will suffer from it.

February 22, 2007, 11:57 PM	#2
mc223 Senior Member Join Date: January 20, 2007 Location: n/w Wisconsin Posts: 365	I've never heard of such nonsense. It does not matter how spotlessly sparkling clean you cases are or which primer or which higher charge of whatever powder you use. You will get smoke from a cast bullet. Try some plated bullets like Berrys or Raniers. They smoke less, or just use jacketed bullets.

February 23, 2007, 12:14 AM	#3
mrawesome22 Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2005 Location: Ohio, Appalachia's foothills. Posts: 3,779	How would tumbling finished cartridges make them smoke less

February 23, 2007, 12:31 PM	#8
cheygriz Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2002 Location: high up in the rockies Posts: 2,289	I tumble jacketed bullet rifle loads 15-30 minutes in corncobs and mineral spirits to remove the lube from the cases, but I wouldn't tumble lead bullet loads. Not only would it not accomplish anything, but you would contaminate your media with lead. Unless you shoot mostly on an indoor range, why let the smoke bother you???? If your cases get dirty, tumble or wash them. Clean your gun after shooting. Smokey pistol loads are no big deal. Just enjoy the shooting, and don't let the smoke bother you! __________________ If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.

February 26, 2007, 06:50 PM	#9
ziggy222 Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 2006 Posts: 184	putting a loaded round in a vibratory case cleaner so the primers can vibrate against each other and build up static electricity?not a good idea,however not unheard of.a friend of mine does it and has'nt been hurt yet,but my reloading manuel says that gunpowder has a coating and case cleaners vibrate that coating off and changes things like its burn rate.however i'm no one to judge,we used to spray lit lighter fluid at each others hands and feet as kids and put it out before we could get burned.

February 26, 2007, 10:41 PM	#10
Ruger4570 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2005 Location: Rochester, New York Posts: 2,136	You better never get into shooting Black Powder loads if smoke bothers you.

February 27, 2007, 01:39 AM	#11
inkie Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2006 Location: Eastern Pa. Posts: 137	Perhaps his fired rounds did not have as much smoke. Because: He may be using a cleaner powder

February 27, 2007, 06:00 AM	#13
Dogjaw Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2001 Location: S.W. Michigan Posts: 560	I don't get complicated when cleaning lube off of loaded ammo. It's called a rag. I wipe them as I put them in their boxes. __________________ There are three kinds of men: 1) The ones that learn by reading. 2) The few who learn by observation. 3) The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves..........

February 27, 2007, 06:46 PM	#16
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	Only 600? That wasn't much of a task.

February 28, 2007, 02:42 AM	#18
ziggy222 Senior Member Join Date: October 5, 2006 Posts: 184	wives tale see this is why i read every reloading manuel cover to cover more than once.in 50th sierra anniversary edition rifle manuel on page 22 of the ballistic service section it states this as one of the common questions sierra technitions get- Q:i have tarnished ammo.can i just put it in my tumbler to clean it up? A: no aside from the possibility of a sharply pointed bullet striking a primer and causing a detonation,the deterent coating may be altered which speeds the burning rate.most tumblers would require the ammo to be tumbled for quite some time before it was thoroughly cleaned,possibly long enough to cause some break down of the powder or its deterrent coating.the simple answer here is no,don't do it.sierra rifle manuel 4th ed. i just did'nt want you to think i was spitting out old info from grandpa or making stuff up.maybe some powders act different so they have to put that down as a general rule.i have'nt tried to find out.

February 28, 2007, 05:33 AM	#19
Dogjaw Senior Member Join Date: October 6, 2001 Location: S.W. Michigan Posts: 560	I'll stick with my "tiresome" old rag. Thank you Ziggy. __________________ There are three kinds of men: 1) The ones that learn by reading. 2) The few who learn by observation. 3) The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence and find out for themselves..........

March 1, 2007, 09:14 PM	#20
Shoney Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2002 Location: Transplanted from Montana Posts: 2,311	Commercial loaders have tumbled loaded rounds in cement mixers with shreaded newprint for decades. Not only does the newsprint degrease, it is abrasive enough to add a final polish. __________________ I pledge allegiance to the Flag - - -, and to the Republic for which it stands….Our Forefathers were brilliant for giving us a Republic, not a democracy! Do you know the difference??? and WHY?http://www.wallbuilders.com/LIBissue...les.asp?id=111

March 4, 2007, 01:17 PM	#21
TEDDY Junior member Join Date: December 10, 2006 Location: MANNING SC Posts: 837	tumble clean SHONEY is right you can tumble loaded cases,what he is doing is clean lube off exposed lead.most all commercial reloaders do this.factories do this the military does not allow it to be done as they want to see the color of anneling.powder is tumbled with grafite to coat the grains if you tumble cart in loaded rds it would seem that coating would stay.

March 4, 2007, 01:42 PM	#22
cheygriz Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2002 Location: high up in the rockies Posts: 2,289	I tumble loaded rounds in a rotary Thumler's model B tumnbler. When I was in the commercial reloading business, we used concrete mixers, but still used corncobs and mineral spirits. __________________ If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.

March 4, 2007, 10:09 PM	#23
rwilson452 Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2004 Location: Tioga co. PA Posts: 2,647	I use a rag with Alcohol Sorry denatured not grain.