Winchester primers?

aerod1 · April 21, 2009, 08:34 AM

Anyone use Winchester primers for 223, AR-15 type rifles?
I have heard they are too soft. Opinions?
Thanks.

Fox1 · April 21, 2009, 09:23 AM

I use them all the time.

No slam fires yet.

When the primers are seated, they are just a bit "deep" or below the plain of the rim.

kraigwy · April 21, 2009, 09:32 AM

I haven't used them in Semi''s however when I got my White Oak Service Rifle Upper, it came with a warning NOT to use Winchester Primers because of the thin jackets and the possiblitiy of slam fires.

Like I said, I haven't tried them, I figured the folks who built the upper might know something I don't so I'll heed their warning.

Besides I've developed fine loads with other primers (Rem 7 1/2), I'm of the school that says IF IT AINT BROKE, DONT FIX IT.

**Mal H** · April 21, 2009, 10:04 AM

Winchester Primers too soft? I know that Federal primers are a little softer than other brands, but never heard that Winchesters are.

hornady · April 21, 2009, 10:59 AM

I have never had this problem and have used several type of primers. I know a mistake a lot of guys make is to trim the Mil, crimp, if you take too much you end up with loose primers, you should use an RCBS primer pocket swag. They work like a punch and leave the base metal. I think a lot of the slam fire comes from loose primers backing out under fire

Scorch · April 21, 2009, 11:32 AM

I have used Winchester primers exclusively since about 1990. I own and fire my RRA NMA4 AR15 in matches every month. I have never had a slam fire. Never. For what it's worth.

JAYBIRD78 · April 21, 2009, 02:52 PM

I probably only have around 500 rounds threw my Armalite .223. I have only used Winchester primers and all rounds have been my handloads.

NO SLAMFIRES AS OF DATE

FWIW

sleepercaprice1 · April 21, 2009, 03:23 PM

I've loaded thousands of .223 rounds with WSP's and never had a problem. I don't load maximum loads, though. My midrange loads seem more accurate and the brass lasts longer.

REMINGTON DUDE · April 21, 2009, 03:29 PM

I don't own a AR but I do reload for a Remington 7400 autoloader, and I only use Winchester primers, and have no problems or slam fires ever. I use a Lee Hand Primer

longranger · April 21, 2009, 04:41 PM

My experience is like all others,I use them for every thing.

NuJudge · April 21, 2009, 05:48 PM

. . . both the old nickel plated ones, and the newer brass colored ones. Never a bit of trouble.

Some of the Service Rifle websites talk about them piercing in the firing pin impression, but I've never seen any discussion of them slam-firing. See here:
http://www.whiteoakprecision.com/info-reloading.htm

A lot of Service Rifle shooters reload trying to get the last FPS out of the .223, and I believe that's where they get their piercing problem.

CDD

Slamfire · April 21, 2009, 08:23 PM

The brass colored WSR primers are thin. A lot thinner than the old nickle plated WSR.

I bought 5000 of the new brass WSR, after they came out in 2000. With loads that never bothered the nickle WSR, these brass WSR just pierced and pierced. Often I would have two pierced primers per ten round rapid fire string.

The tips of AR firing pins dish when you get a pierced primer. The dished point cause more stress points on the primer. So you start getting even more pierced primers.

Highpower shoots really push their .223 bullets. You have to. Other Highpower shooters starting having pierced primer problems with the new brass WSR. And the word has gotten out.

Firing pins are not free either. They cost money to replace. I have never had enough pierced primers to erode the firing pin hole of the bolt, but bolts ain't free either.

I radically cut my loads to be able to use those WSR primers, and I loaded the last of them in rock blasting ammo.

Never had a problem with CC#41's. They take the same loads as the old nickle WSR and shoot just fine.

So CCI #41's replaced WSR in my AR's.

Deer Slayer 270 · April 30, 2009, 01:55 PM

I have had similar problem with pierced WSR primers in my 204 Ruger hand loads. Now that I hear about other people experiencing the same thing, I see it has to be the primer. last month at the range I fired 10 rounds and had four of them with pierced primer. that is crazy. Winchester need to do something about this. I have been using Winchester primers almost exlusively since started reloading about 4 years ago, but I am switching to Federal now over this issue and over some cosmetic issues with WLR primers where a whole box of them had tarnish and discoloration (looked like antique brass, not that it made any difference in performance, but I take pride in my hand loads and I want them to look good too).

Jmac2387 · May 1, 2009, 06:04 PM

I have loaded just less than 10K in .223 (9884 according to my reloading log on excel) and have never had a problem or slam fire. In fact I prefer these primers as they of a higher quality in roundness than the others I have tried.

IE remington and CCI. My two cents-- your mileage may vary JM

marsofold · May 2, 2009, 09:21 PM

A moot question since almost nobody has Winchester primers in stock!

Mark whiz · May 3, 2009, 12:48 PM

Ditto with everyone else......................Winchesters are my preferred primers and I've shot tons through my M1A with narry a problem.

CrustyFN · May 3, 2009, 01:10 PM

Same for me. I have used a lot of WSR primers in my AR15 without any problems.
Rusty

April 21, 2009, 08:34 AM	#1
aerod1 Senior Member Join Date: April 12, 2000 Location: Garland Texas U.S.A. Posts: 734	Winchester primers? Anyone use Winchester primers for 223, AR-15 type rifles? I have heard they are too soft. Opinions? Thanks. __________________ NRA Life Member, TSRA Life Member, C&R 03 FFL, Texas LTC Recreational Reloader U.S. Navy Veteran (USS Midway V-1 Division)

April 21, 2009, 09:32 AM	#3
kraigwy Senior Member Join Date: June 16, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 11,061	I haven't used them in Semi''s however when I got my White Oak Service Rifle Upper, it came with a warning NOT to use Winchester Primers because of the thin jackets and the possiblitiy of slam fires. Like I said, I haven't tried them, I figured the folks who built the upper might know something I don't so I'll heed their warning. Besides I've developed fine loads with other primers (Rem 7 1/2), I'm of the school that says IF IT AINT BROKE, DONT FIX IT. __________________ Kraig Stuart CPT USAR Ret USAMU Sniper School Distinguished Rifle Badge 1071

April 21, 2009, 11:32 AM	#6
Scorch Senior Member Join Date: February 13, 2006 Location: Washington state Posts: 15,248	I have used Winchester primers exclusively since about 1990. I own and fire my RRA NMA4 AR15 in matches every month. I have never had a slam fire. Never. For what it's worth. __________________ Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs. But what do I know? Summit Arms Services

April 21, 2009, 02:52 PM	#7
JAYBIRD78 Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2007 Location: People's Republik of Illinois...in "gun valley" Posts: 366	I probably only have around 500 rounds threw my Armalite .223. I have only used Winchester primers and all rounds have been my handloads. NO SLAMFIRES AS OF DATE FWIW __________________ Forgive me ....I can not spell. NRA LIFE MEMBER 2009

April 21, 2009, 05:48 PM	#11
NuJudge Member Join Date: October 17, 2005 Location: SE Michigan Posts: 86	I've shot thousands of them . . . . . . both the old nickel plated ones, and the newer brass colored ones. Never a bit of trouble. Some of the Service Rifle websites talk about them piercing in the firing pin impression, but I've never seen any discussion of them slam-firing. See here: http://www.whiteoakprecision.com/info-reloading.htm A lot of Service Rifle shooters reload trying to get the last FPS out of the .223, and I believe that's where they get their piercing problem. CDD

April 21, 2009, 09:23 AM	#2
Fox1 Senior Member Join Date: September 27, 2008 Posts: 300	I use them all the time. No slam fires yet. When the primers are seated, they are just a bit "deep" or below the plain of the rim.

April 21, 2009, 10:04 AM	#4
Mal H Staff Join Date: March 20, 1999 Location: Somewhere in the woods of Northern Virginia Posts: 16,948	Winchester Primers too soft? I know that Federal primers are a little softer than other brands, but never heard that Winchesters are.

April 21, 2009, 10:59 AM	#5
hornady Senior Member Join Date: April 6, 2009 Location: SWPA Posts: 428	I have never had this problem and have used several type of primers. I know a mistake a lot of guys make is to trim the Mil, crimp, if you take too much you end up with loose primers, you should use an RCBS primer pocket swag. They work like a punch and leave the base metal. I think a lot of the slam fire comes from loose primers backing out under fire

April 21, 2009, 03:23 PM	#8
sleepercaprice1 Junior Member Join Date: December 27, 2008 Location: Illinois Posts: 10	I've loaded thousands of .223 rounds with WSP's and never had a problem. I don't load maximum loads, though. My midrange loads seem more accurate and the brass lasts longer.

April 21, 2009, 03:29 PM	#9
REMINGTON DUDE Member Join Date: September 25, 2008 Posts: 34	I don't own a AR but I do reload for a Remington 7400 autoloader, and I only use Winchester primers, and have no problems or slam fires ever. I use a Lee Hand Primer

April 21, 2009, 04:41 PM	#10
longranger Senior Member Join Date: November 4, 2008 Location: Buffalo WY Posts: 1,056	My experience is like all others,I use them for every thing.

April 21, 2009, 08:23 PM	#12
Slamfire Senior Member Join Date: May 27, 2007 Posts: 5,261	The brass colored WSR primers are thin. A lot thinner than the old nickle plated WSR. I bought 5000 of the new brass WSR, after they came out in 2000. With loads that never bothered the nickle WSR, these brass WSR just pierced and pierced. Often I would have two pierced primers per ten round rapid fire string. The tips of AR firing pins dish when you get a pierced primer. The dished point cause more stress points on the primer. So you start getting even more pierced primers. Highpower shoots really push their .223 bullets. You have to. Other Highpower shooters starting having pierced primer problems with the new brass WSR. And the word has gotten out. Firing pins are not free either. They cost money to replace. I have never had enough pierced primers to erode the firing pin hole of the bolt, but bolts ain't free either. I radically cut my loads to be able to use those WSR primers, and I loaded the last of them in rock blasting ammo. Never had a problem with CC#41's. They take the same loads as the old nickle WSR and shoot just fine. So CCI #41's replaced WSR in my AR's.

April 30, 2009, 01:55 PM	#13
Deer Slayer 270 Member Join Date: January 6, 2007 Posts: 49	I have had similar problem with pierced WSR primers in my 204 Ruger hand loads. Now that I hear about other people experiencing the same thing, I see it has to be the primer. last month at the range I fired 10 rounds and had four of them with pierced primer. that is crazy. Winchester need to do something about this. I have been using Winchester primers almost exlusively since started reloading about 4 years ago, but I am switching to Federal now over this issue and over some cosmetic issues with WLR primers where a whole box of them had tarnish and discoloration (looked like antique brass, not that it made any difference in performance, but I take pride in my hand loads and I want them to look good too).

May 1, 2009, 06:04 PM	#14
Jmac2387 Member Join Date: September 11, 2004 Location: Lone Star State/ Hawaii/ Alaska/ Oklahoma Posts: 21	WSR in .223? I have loaded just less than 10K in .223 (9884 according to my reloading log on excel) and have never had a problem or slam fire. In fact I prefer these primers as they of a higher quality in roundness than the others I have tried. IE remington and CCI. My two cents-- your mileage may vary JM __________________ Today everyone fights! No one quits. If you run I will shoot you myself - 1st Lt MOB inf Malson this goes for you to. No more leaving the firefight to go find something.

May 2, 2009, 09:21 PM	#15
marsofold Member Join Date: January 18, 2008 Location: PENNSYLVANIA Posts: 46	A moot question since almost nobody has Winchester primers in stock!

May 3, 2009, 12:48 PM	#16
Mark whiz Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Wabash, IN Posts: 227	Ditto with everyone else......................Winchesters are my preferred primers and I've shot tons through my M1A with narry a problem. __________________ "Every moving thing that liveth, I give unto you as meat" (Gen 9:3) Aim small.........miss small. Trust God..........but keep your powder dry!

May 3, 2009, 01:10 PM	#17
CrustyFN Senior Member Join Date: June 4, 2006 Location: West Virginia Posts: 2,258	Same for me. I have used a lot of WSR primers in my AR15 without any problems. Rusty __________________ I don't ever remember being absent minded.