1st smelt

[QBall45]

I just finished my first smelt. It went much better than I had thought it would. The worst part was figuring out that I need to wait while the load in the pan got hot. Melted half a 5 bucket of wheel weights. THis yelded me 39.5 muffins. Now I just need to get my bullet mold. I can't wait to grap another bucket of WW from the tire shop. I think that I am goiing to like this hobby extension. It started with shooting then reloading and now casting my own lead. What is next?

I think that with almost free lead my cost to reload is down to about $5 per 100 for 45ACP. How can a guy go wrong?

[Gbro]

How can a guy go wrong?

Without a good quality respirator there is much that can go wrong.

I just finished my first smelt.

The last meal of those little wigglers has lasted me 20 years.
You are fortunate to have a supply of WW, as many places are not giving them away anymore. In fact some places do not even sell them outright.
I reclaim batteries for casting boolets, good thing baking soda is cheep!
Good luck with your new interest.

Greg

[hornady]

A couple suggestions, One stay away from batteries, they are not worth your health, Also Lyman puts out a cast bullet book for about $25.00 it will save you a lot of grief, And has lots good info as well as. Loads for Rifle and Handgun cast loads, also a big mistakes a lot of new casters make they don’t flux well enough. I use Marvel from mid-way but you can use plain Bees wax and burn the smoke off. The trick is to use a small ladle like Lee puts out and keep pushing the flux down with the ladle up side down to mix air in. and keep it up till the Lead on top has a mirror look to it. Wheel weights work great for mid range loads just don’t push them to hard unless you mix Linotype with them or heat treat as they will lead a Barrel. Good luck I have cast for 30 years and saved a bunch of money. And it adds a whole new dimension to reloading

[snuffy]

Without a good quality respirator there is much that can go wrong.

What for? Melting lead at under 1200 degrees does not produce lead fumes. Nor does it produce lead dust.


You are fortunate to have a supply of WW, as many places are not giving them away anymore. In fact some places do not even sell them outright.
I reclaim batteries for casting boolits, good thing baking soda is cheap!
Good luck with your new interest.

++++2 on what Hornady said. Lead/acid batteries contain several toxic,(as in poisonous), compounds that can kill you. Not worth the risk.

http://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?t=40769

Qball, did you run into any zinc WW? Gotta be careful not to get the zinc melted in with the rest. Keeping the lead under 750 degrees will allow the zinc weights to float out along with the clips.

Did a little smelting the last couple weekends.







Range lead scrap.

[darkgael]

Just being picky. You are using "smelt" in a very broad sense, as you are cleaning a lead alloy and separating various undesirable parts - like metal clips - from the lead. Smelting usually refers to the process of separating metal from its ore - a tad more technical than what you and I do when we melt down WWs and cast the melt into ingots.
I haven't used muffin pans for ingots. How did you find them as far as releasing the solidified metal? I'm probably going to go that route and am curious.
Pete

[snuffy]

I haven't used muffin pans for ingots. How did you find them as far as releasing the solidified metal? I'm probably going to go that route and am curious.
Pete

Pete, the muffin pans work great. BUT, some of them are actually tin plated. Pouring hot lead into them, solders the lead in FIRMLY! Those in my pics are bare steel, and Teflon coated aluminum.

This pic shows both, but the smaller Teflon tins are hard to see at the bottom of the pic.



They don't stack as neatly as the Lyman 4 bangers, especially when the Lyman's are filled completely to the top to tie the 4 cavities together. The bigger ones are 3 pounds, the smaller are a little over 2#.

I wish I had another couple of the big 2 cavity molds in the above pic. It cast right at 5#, but still will fit in my Lee 20 pound pot.

[hornady]

I live in Pa and with the pot holes and winters wheel weights are plentifully I can usually get them for 10 to 15 cents a pound at a couple tire stores, I found some thick Aluminum muffin pans at a yard sale they work great. Two suggestions. I too have a Lee 20 pound pot but I melt the weights in a separate pot to clean the clips out. And then only put the clean pigs in the Lee. Also the stick on weights are a lot softer than the clip on. They are harder then pure lead but not much., I shoot mid range loads in hand gun and you want them pretty hard. The stick on I shoot out of muzzle loader. I cast them to.

[QBall45]

Ya I did find a few zinc ones. They floated to the top with the clips.

Snuffy> Where did ya fid that burner in your pic? THat looks like what I need. High output and sturdy. I used the side burner on an old grill. While it worked, I what to find something else.

[snuffy]

Snuffy> Where did ya find that burner in your pic? THat looks like what I need. High output and sturdy. I used the side burner on an old grill. While it worked, I what to find something else.

That's a turkey deep fryer base. I got it at a local fleet farm store. No, I never tried a deep fried turkey! That one has had some reinforcement done to it. It won't hold that much lead, as it was only supposed to hold up a pot, oil, and a turkey. That 6 quart dutch oven, when full, weighs 150 pounds, and in fluxing, skimming, and stirring I wanted it to be real sturdy. I put 4- 3/8 rods between the bottom and top, welded them in to make it much stiffer.

I tried something yesterday that was recommended on another forum. I bought a weed burner propane torch from Harbor freight. Playing the huge flame on the top of the pile of range lead, helped melt the whole works much quicker. Speed, but at a price of probably double consumption of propane. Getting the top hot at the same time as the bottom, shortened the melt time from 25 minutes, to less than 15.

[QBall45]

If only I could find someone that has handles for Lee's 6 cavity molds in stock... I can firn the mold I want but everywhere I look the handles are out of stock...

I guess I'll just have to get me some more WW and make some more muffins till I can get the mold/handle set I want.

[darkgael]

Serious question: What do you all do with the "slag" that you skim off the melt? I understand that it is more than a little toxic.
Not stuff that you'd want to keep around.

Also - your chemistry may be better than mine but

Melting lead at under 1200 degrees does not produce lead fumes. Nor does it produce lead dust.

I wonder about that since ALL recommendations are to do what we do in a well-ventilated area. If there are no fumes, why bother? A few years ago, I did some casting indoors. I don't cast at very high temps; I don't eat when I am casting; I don't smoke; I wear gloves; I wash my hands carefully when done. Well, my lead blood count shot up to 40. When I stopped casting indoors, it went down. No fumes? Is there a variable that I'm missing?

Pete

[hornady]

Good points on the lead fumes, I do all my casting out side .I wait till the weather is good and move everything needed out side .the Garage. And as said keep your hands away from your mouth and nose. Lead is a heavy medal , most exposure comes from hand to mouth, cigarette, chew, gun, or others , I have fluxed with bees wax and some of the old stand byes but now I only use marvelux. There is a lot less smoke and it dose a great job. Lead poisoning is nothing to fool around with. There have been some post on here and other sights, as to having high lead levels from Tumbling brass as well. The slag ends up in sealed contained in the trash.

[snuffy]

The local land fill isn't worried about lead contaminated garbage. The range where I got all that lead is being re-built by a local contractor. He said that the remaining sand and lead in the trap will be put in a container, then taken to the land fill. If I hadn't rescued what I did, it would have ALL gone there, wasted. Same goes for the slag, which consists of a little of the sand from the bullet trap, jacket material, gravel, and lead oxide that didn't re-combine with the lead. It has been put in buckets, it will go in our garbage pick up, will end up in the same landfill.

As to the fumes, what you see coming out of a re-melt,(smelt actually refers to getting lead out of ore), is smoke from whatever carbon compound you use to flux, steam, and dust. The dust IS dangerous, but in normal casting indoors, it should already be gone.

Lead boils at 3180 degrees F. Then it really churns out vapor. No need to ever get it that hot for casting, nor could you if you had to. At 1200 degrees, some vapor is generated. 1200 degrees is nearly impossible to reach with our electric lead pots. Normal casting temps seldom reach 900 degrees. At any temp over melting temp, little or no lead vapor is generated. If there's any, it hugs the surface of the lead. Because it's a heavy metal, so is the vapor. You would have to purposely try to get it up in the air. Then inhale it.

I cast in an enclosed bedroom, that's also my loading room. In winter there's NO ventilation. Summers find a window opened, and a fan blowing on me to keep ME cool. I had my lead-blood level checked at the VA in 01-08, it was 5.0. Again this Jan, it was 4.0. A week doesn't go by that I don't have the pot hot, casting boolits. I have no clue why you had a high lead level.

[CrustyFN]

Sounds good Qball. Fun isn't it?

I haven't used muffin pans for ingots. How did you find them as far as releasing the solidified metal?

I would have never paid that much for these but my wife knew I wanted some muffin pans and bought me some cast iron ones, the lead muffins drop easy.


The rectangular molds I made from scrap steel from work.

Snuffy> Where did ya fid that burner in your pic?

I got this burner on-line. It's a Bayou Classic 185,000 BTU and sells for around $45.



Rusty

[QBall45]

I reveived the mould I'd ordered so I went to melt some lead and give it a try. things went ok, but.

How can I tell if I melted some zinc wheel weights?

the melt is rather grainy... Not what I would have expected. Is this a sign that I have zinc in my lead? or am I not quite hot enough?

The bullets that I have made look ok I guess. But, I'm feeling as though I am not doing something quite right. THey exit the mold nice and shiny smooth. Then cool down frosted. Which I am ok with. However when cool they have a grainy texture to 'em.

Have any ideas?

[snuffy]

Well, I didn't see what mold you bought, but if the driving bands are well filled out, I wouldn't worry about grainy appearance. What you're seeing is lack of tin. WW usually don't have quite enough to produce those show-case, shiny boolits. The antimony crystallizes on the surface after they cool a bit. No harm, actually it tends to hold the lube better.

Get a roll of solder from the hardware store. Get the 95% tin 5% antimony solder, put about an 18" chunk in with 20# of your WW alloy.

I don't think it's zinc contamination. Again, if your boolits are well filled out, with sharp crisp bases and driving bands, you do NOT have a zinc problem.

[darkgael]

I cast in an enclosed bedroom, that's also my loading room. In winter there's NO ventilation. Summers find a window opened, and a fan blowing on me to keep ME cool. I had my lead-blood level checked at the VA in 01-08, it was 5.0. Again this Jan, it was 4.0. A week doesn't go by that I don't have the pot hot, casting boolits. I have no clue why you had a high lead level.

Thanks for that info. Makes me wonder. I've never had a lead level lower than 8.0. I keep wondering that I may be picking it up in some other way.
Happy to see that there's someone else who gets himself tested.
Pete

[QBall45]

Snuffy,
Thanks for the info. I will be getting to the store to pick up some tin solder.

[HisSoldier]

My bottom pour batchpot, for mixing alloy. I may use it for melting WW as it has a thermometer so I can keep the temp low enough to float 100% of any errant zinc WW. Note the bullet trap of my own design in the background. It's made of T1 3/16" thick with a mild steel "snail" deceleration trap at the back.

[QBall45]

Adding a bit oh Tin sure helped the lead fill mould out better.

Snuffy, the mould I got was a LEE TL452-200-SWC.

I loaded some up today and went out back to the range. They grouped ok. Kept em inside the 6 ring. almost ok for a 4 inch barrel.

[Joat]

HisSoldier - Can I get more pictures or a diagram of your bottom pour batch pot? (especially the gate and control rod) That is a nice looking pot.

Joat

[HisSoldier]

Showing thermometer in protected housing, the thermometer screws into a 303 1" dia. holder that goes into the melt to protect the probe, I've made many such probe holders for babbit pots for lumber mills.


Looking down into the pot, the valve rod is 1/2" dia. 303, in fact all the valve parts are 303 or 304 except the bolt and roll pin. At the bottom of the pot is a 1" diameter valve body that screws into the base plate of the pot, there is ample guide area above the valve opening to ensure that the rod cannot come clear out of the valve body, which of course would be a catastrophe!

The top of the valve link, simple minds, simple designs.

You didn't ask, but here's a sideview of my snail trap. I have a 5 page set of drawings for anyone who PM's me, suitable for any plasma torch programmer to get burnouts made. 3/16" T-1 at maximum 30 degree angle to the strike, handles (Not in drawings) to lift and carry, and prong holders (not in drawings again) to hang targets on.

[HisSoldier]

Oh yeah, note the bullet strike in the bottom of the steel door in the last photo, a .45 ACP shot into a phone book earlier I think, one that got through!

[Joat]

Thank you for the pictures. I see said the blind man...

Joat

[Gbro]

I just finished searching the city storage buildings looking for old lead water pipes. No luck but we did find the old melting pots and stove used in the past. I will try and purchase them from the city. There is also an old forge with a hand crank blower in mint condition stored away in the attic. I have to research that item some.
What is a good source of pure lead?? The local hardware store states they have no source for it anymore.