accurate load for .223 with 1/8 twist?

USMC0811 · March 19, 2006, 07:59 PM

hello,
I have a rock river arms ar15 varmiter with a 1 in 8 twist barrel (24"). ive been shooting factory ammo for a while now, (aprox. 1000 rds) but i just cant seem to get it under 2 moa at 100m. I have access to reloading tools, and would like to start reloading.
what grain bullet would be best for a 1/8 twist? (sierra, or hornady is the brands i prefer, but am willing to try whatever)
what type powder is best, and where should i start with powder ammount? (my friend has some IMR 4064, but he reloads .308, will that work?)
what type primers? (are federal match primers good?)
ive got a bunch of once fired brass from black hills i was planning on using, unless you sujest something else.
thanks in advance.

Jim Watson · March 19, 2006, 11:12 PM

id use a 75 gr hornady amax or 80 grain sierra or nosler in a 8 in twist.
4064 powder is fair you might be up to a compressed load by the time you got up to full speed.
varget is the best commonly available powder i have found but re15 is good if you can round some up.
most target shooters are running at the top end of published data if not somewhat hot. federal match primers are good, cci benchrest are too.
www.imrpowder.com
www.hodgdon.com
www.alliantpowder.com

HSMITH · March 19, 2006, 11:22 PM

Best load I have found for my 8 twist AR so far has been the 68 Hornady match bullet and Varget. Sierra 55 Gamekings are a close second.

Lycanthrope · March 20, 2006, 01:44 AM

Pretty much anything (69 gr Sierra Match King being the favored) over 24.5 grains of Varget and CCI 400 primers. That will get you started.

gary2905 · March 20, 2006, 06:38 AM

USMC,
Have the same RRA varminter and it LOVES the 68 gr HPBT over Varget.
Second, equally good powder is VV- N 135.
Both meter extremely well even in my progressive and shoot lights out.
You cannot go wrong with either.
BTW, it likes most anything in terms of bullet weight although I have not laoded down to the 40 gr range as I have no needs in that size pellet from the 223.
Have not tried the 80 gr yet but do have slight concerns over stabilization of the longer bullet, especially if VLD design.
You will love the RRA.

HSMITH · March 20, 2006, 08:08 AM

Lycanthrope, how far off the lands are you with the 69 SMK? My gun, isn't a RR, just doesn't like the 69 SMK. I have been as long as the mag will take them all the way down to where 24 grains was just beginning to show pressure signs. I am dumbfounded about this, Sierra bullets are my absolute favorite, and the MatchKing seems to be THE bullet of choice in competition circles when accuracy is needed. It likes GameKings fine, any advise for me?

I have a Shaw barrel in mine and mine is a 223 match chamber, maybe he convinced it Hornady was the way to go before shipment

USMC0811 · March 20, 2006, 10:57 AM

thanks for all the help guys, this will give me something to start with.

gary: just curious, but what kind of groups are you getting with your RRA?

Jim Watson · March 20, 2006, 12:31 PM

o by the way if using a bullet heavier than 69 grains it will need to be loaded longer than the magazine will take and fired single shot. they are mostly for the slowfire stages across the course.

Poodleshooter · March 20, 2006, 01:27 PM

Jim- Most of the 75gr bullets and the 77gr Sierra can be loaded to magazine length-2.26"OAL. Only 80-100gr .224 bullets need to be loaded over mag length.

I'm shooting a 1x9 Shaw heavy barrel on a RR receivered build,and have had good luck with the Hornady 68gr BTHP in 1-9 and 1-7 twist barrels. I'm currently shooting up a stock of optimized reloads that I made up for a 1x7 twist AR. 24.6grs of WC846/Ball(C)2 gives groups around an inch at 100yds in the new gun,so it seems to be a versatile load across a range of twists.

Jim Watson · March 20, 2006, 02:34 PM

I think the 75 A-max is meant to load long like the 80 gr hp. At least that is what I use it for.
The 75 Hornady regular hp and the 77 gr Sierra are magazine bullets.

ocabj · March 20, 2006, 03:10 PM

The 75 A-Max cannot be loaded to magazine length. Trust me. I tried. I have 500 I plan to sell/trade because of this.

If you load the 75 A-Max to magazine length (roughly 2.260"), the ogive will be past the lip of the neck which means you have hardly any neck tension holding the bullet.

If you need magazine length, stick with the Hornady 75gr BTHP or the Sierra 77gr BTHP.

Bullet94 · March 21, 2006, 12:10 AM

USMC0811

I have a RRA Varmint rifle with a 20-inch barrel. I’m shooting 69gr moly SMK’s using VV N540 - 27.4gr. at 2950 fps. Shoots under ½ inch at 100 yards. My stepson shot a 2 inch (5 shot ) group at 300 yards the first time he ever shot at 300 yards (this was only his second time to shoot a rifle). Next I'm trying 77gr moly SMK's should be better in the wind.

gary2905 · March 21, 2006, 06:47 AM

USMC,

Since I don't hype the numbers, the best I can shoot consistently is around .6 to .7 inch groups of 5 at 100 yards.
There is no doubt that a younger set of eyes and less coffee could improve on that.
Sure, I can occassionaly get 3 to touch but I am happy as a lark to put 5 into a nickel sized group.
I cannot do a whole lot betterthan that now with a fine heavy barrelled Sako 22-250 that 30 years ago would group under .45 inches at 100.
The ravages of aging take their toll!

rrp · March 23, 2006, 10:47 PM

Semper Fi USMC I have been using 68 gr hornady bthp in my olympic arms 1-9 twist ar using 23 gr of win 748 with good success. Just remember what you learned at the range. THINK BRASS and they will fly straight and true. Good luck

P-990 · March 24, 2006, 08:40 AM

USMC,

Take Lycanthrope's advice!! It really is that easy. I prefer 77gr Nosler bullets in my 1-8" AR-15, but Sierras work well also. Get some Varget, some CCI-400s (or BR4s), a magazine length bullet and stuff them in to 2.25-2.26" and go to work. That's it.

I made Master shooting that combination XTC through my AR, and the accuracy is good enough to clean everything. I swap out for 80gr Noslers at the 600 yard line, just because I do. Don't bother shoot the 80s closer than 300 yards though, as they're too much work to reload to use up that quickly!

FWIW, I've placed 16 of 20 rounds of the 77gr/Varget combination within about 4.5" at 300 yards, prone. (The other 4 were mystery fliers.) So it should shoot well enough for you, better than 2-minutes.

Lycanthrope · March 24, 2006, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Lycanthrope, how far off the lands are you with the 69 SMK? My gun, isn't a RR, just doesn't like the 69 SMK. I have been as long as the mag will take them all the way down to where 24 grains was just beginning to show pressure signs. I am dumbfounded about this, Sierra bullets are my absolute favorite, and the MatchKing seems to be THE bullet of choice in competition circles when accuracy is needed. It likes GameKings fine, any advise for me?

I load mine mag length (the OAL is listed in my log at home) in a .223 Wylde chamber. The way I usually set up the AR rounds is to load long and then start varying loads in .5 grain increments. 24.5 worked best in my 1:7 CMP rifle and just happened to perform in the 1:9 guns as well. In my experience, the longer, narrow boat tails can really vary in spread with small differences in powder charges. Try grouping at 200 yards because the bullets take a while to stabilize and "sleep".

Edited for OAL.

OAL is 2.255

Tim R · March 24, 2006, 02:56 PM

It seems to me there are a lot of different ways to get it done when it comes to AR's.

My favorite powder for X the course, is Reloader 15 behind 69, 77 and 80 gr. SMK's.

For the 69 gr. SMK I use 24. 8 grs of R-15 and for the 77 and 80 gr. SMK's, I use 24.4 grs of R-15 in GI brass.

I'm quite sure if I had a better spotting scope, I could clean a reduced 600 yard target shot at 100 yards with the 69 Gr. SMK fired prone. I've come very close (within a couple of points) with what I have now. The 80's fly nice at 600. My first thought first time I shot a AR with the 80's at 600, was dang I should have done this years ago. 30 cal 175 SMK's boot a lot more!

CI primers work well, but I like the Rem 7 1/2 BR's. Using the above load, I had to use Federal match primers one time and ended up with pierced primers. I won't use them again. My load isn't burning the grass down in front of the muzzel either.

HSMITH · March 24, 2006, 05:45 PM

Thanks Lycanthrope. I have covered the ground you mention except taking the charge up past 24.5 at max cartridge length, I still have a couple hundred of the bullets so I will give it a shot next time I get out with the AR. 24.5 at 2.250 with the Hornady 68 HPBT Match bullet runs really nicely, so I don't see why I can't get the MK to run too.

March 19, 2006, 07:59 PM	#1
USMC0811 Junior Member Join Date: December 13, 2005 Posts: 14	accurate load for .223 with 1/8 twist? hello, I have a rock river arms ar15 varmiter with a 1 in 8 twist barrel (24"). ive been shooting factory ammo for a while now, (aprox. 1000 rds) but i just cant seem to get it under 2 moa at 100m. I have access to reloading tools, and would like to start reloading. what grain bullet would be best for a 1/8 twist? (sierra, or hornady is the brands i prefer, but am willing to try whatever) what type powder is best, and where should i start with powder ammount? (my friend has some IMR 4064, but he reloads .308, will that work?) what type primers? (are federal match primers good?) ive got a bunch of once fired brass from black hills i was planning on using, unless you sujest something else. thanks in advance.

March 21, 2006, 12:10 AM	#12
Bullet94 Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2004 Location: Kansas Posts: 723	USMC0811 I have a RRA Varmint rifle with a 20-inch barrel. I’m shooting 69gr moly SMK’s using VV N540 - 27.4gr. at 2950 fps. Shoots under ½ inch at 100 yards. My stepson shot a 2 inch (5 shot ) group at 300 yards the first time he ever shot at 300 yards (this was only his second time to shoot a rifle). Next I'm trying 77gr moly SMK's should be better in the wind. __________________ PRO-SECOND AMENDMENT - Live Free or Die

March 23, 2006, 10:47 PM	#14
rrp Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2006 Location: west central Wi Posts: 300	try hornady 68 gr bthp Semper Fi USMC I have been using 68 gr hornady bthp in my olympic arms 1-9 twist ar using 23 gr of win 748 with good success. Just remember what you learned at the range. THINK BRASS and they will fly straight and true. Good luck

March 24, 2006, 08:40 AM	#15
P-990 Senior Member Join Date: May 2, 2002 Location: Only1/2WayThere Posts: 1,316	USMC, Take Lycanthrope's advice!! It really is that easy. I prefer 77gr Nosler bullets in my 1-8" AR-15, but Sierras work well also. Get some Varget, some CCI-400s (or BR4s), a magazine length bullet and stuff them in to 2.25-2.26" and go to work. That's it. I made Master shooting that combination XTC through my AR, and the accuracy is good enough to clean everything. I swap out for 80gr Noslers at the 600 yard line, just because I do. Don't bother shoot the 80s closer than 300 yards though, as they're too much work to reload to use up that quickly! FWIW, I've placed 16 of 20 rounds of the 77gr/Varget combination within about 4.5" at 300 yards, prone. (The other 4 were mystery fliers.) So it should shoot well enough for you, better than 2-minutes. __________________ NRA Master, Highpower Rifle, Across-the-Course NRA Expert, Highpower Rifle, Mid-Range Prone

March 24, 2006, 02:56 PM	#17
Tim R Senior Member Join Date: November 30, 2004 Location: God's side of Washington State Posts: 1,601	It seems to me there are a lot of different ways to get it done when it comes to AR's. My favorite powder for X the course, is Reloader 15 behind 69, 77 and 80 gr. SMK's. For the 69 gr. SMK I use 24. 8 grs of R-15 and for the 77 and 80 gr. SMK's, I use 24.4 grs of R-15 in GI brass. I'm quite sure if I had a better spotting scope, I could clean a reduced 600 yard target shot at 100 yards with the 69 Gr. SMK fired prone. I've come very close (within a couple of points) with what I have now. The 80's fly nice at 600. My first thought first time I shot a AR with the 80's at 600, was dang I should have done this years ago. 30 cal 175 SMK's boot a lot more! CI primers work well, but I like the Rem 7 1/2 BR's. Using the above load, I had to use Federal match primers one time and ended up with pierced primers. I won't use them again. My load isn't burning the grass down in front of the muzzel either. __________________ God Bless our Troops especially our Snipers.

March 19, 2006, 11:12 PM	#2
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,529	id use a 75 gr hornady amax or 80 grain sierra or nosler in a 8 in twist. 4064 powder is fair you might be up to a compressed load by the time you got up to full speed. varget is the best commonly available powder i have found but re15 is good if you can round some up. most target shooters are running at the top end of published data if not somewhat hot. federal match primers are good, cci benchrest are too. www.imrpowder.com www.hodgdon.com www.alliantpowder.com

March 19, 2006, 11:22 PM	#3
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	Best load I have found for my 8 twist AR so far has been the 68 Hornady match bullet and Varget. Sierra 55 Gamekings are a close second.

March 20, 2006, 01:44 AM	#4
Lycanthrope Senior Member Join Date: October 1, 2001 Location: PA Posts: 1,752	Pretty much anything (69 gr Sierra Match King being the favored) over 24.5 grains of Varget and CCI 400 primers. That will get you started.

March 20, 2006, 06:38 AM	#5
gary2905 Member Join Date: December 20, 2005 Location: Rural-not for long- Virginia Posts: 60	USMC, Have the same RRA varminter and it LOVES the 68 gr HPBT over Varget. Second, equally good powder is VV- N 135. Both meter extremely well even in my progressive and shoot lights out. You cannot go wrong with either. BTW, it likes most anything in terms of bullet weight although I have not laoded down to the 40 gr range as I have no needs in that size pellet from the 223. Have not tried the 80 gr yet but do have slight concerns over stabilization of the longer bullet, especially if VLD design. You will love the RRA.

March 20, 2006, 08:08 AM	#6
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	Lycanthrope, how far off the lands are you with the 69 SMK? My gun, isn't a RR, just doesn't like the 69 SMK. I have been as long as the mag will take them all the way down to where 24 grains was just beginning to show pressure signs. I am dumbfounded about this, Sierra bullets are my absolute favorite, and the MatchKing seems to be THE bullet of choice in competition circles when accuracy is needed. It likes GameKings fine, any advise for me? I have a Shaw barrel in mine and mine is a 223 match chamber, maybe he convinced it Hornady was the way to go before shipment

March 20, 2006, 10:57 AM	#7
USMC0811 Junior Member Join Date: December 13, 2005 Posts: 14	thanks for all the help guys, this will give me something to start with. gary: just curious, but what kind of groups are you getting with your RRA?

March 20, 2006, 12:31 PM	#8
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,529	o by the way if using a bullet heavier than 69 grains it will need to be loaded longer than the magazine will take and fired single shot. they are mostly for the slowfire stages across the course.

March 20, 2006, 01:27 PM	#9
Poodleshooter Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2000 Location: Floating down the James River in VA Posts: 2,599	Jim- Most of the 75gr bullets and the 77gr Sierra can be loaded to magazine length-2.26"OAL. Only 80-100gr .224 bullets need to be loaded over mag length. I'm shooting a 1x9 Shaw heavy barrel on a RR receivered build,and have had good luck with the Hornady 68gr BTHP in 1-9 and 1-7 twist barrels. I'm currently shooting up a stock of optimized reloads that I made up for a 1x7 twist AR. 24.6grs of WC846/Ball(C)2 gives groups around an inch at 100yds in the new gun,so it seems to be a versatile load across a range of twists.

March 20, 2006, 02:34 PM	#10
Jim Watson Senior Member Join Date: October 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 18,529	I think the 75 A-max is meant to load long like the 80 gr hp. At least that is what I use it for. The 75 Hornady regular hp and the 77 gr Sierra are magazine bullets.

March 20, 2006, 03:10 PM	#11
ocabj Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2000 Location: Riverside, CA Posts: 205	The 75 A-Max cannot be loaded to magazine length. Trust me. I tried. I have 500 I plan to sell/trade because of this. If you load the 75 A-Max to magazine length (roughly 2.260"), the ogive will be past the lip of the neck which means you have hardly any neck tension holding the bullet. If you need magazine length, stick with the Hornady 75gr BTHP or the Sierra 77gr BTHP.

March 21, 2006, 06:47 AM	#13
gary2905 Member Join Date: December 20, 2005 Location: Rural-not for long- Virginia Posts: 60	USMC, Since I don't hype the numbers, the best I can shoot consistently is around .6 to .7 inch groups of 5 at 100 yards. There is no doubt that a younger set of eyes and less coffee could improve on that. Sure, I can occassionaly get 3 to touch but I am happy as a lark to put 5 into a nickel sized group. I cannot do a whole lot betterthan that now with a fine heavy barrelled Sako 22-250 that 30 years ago would group under .45 inches at 100. The ravages of aging take their toll!

March 24, 2006, 05:45 PM	#18
HSMITH Senior Member Join Date: June 21, 2002 Posts: 2,019	Thanks Lycanthrope. I have covered the ground you mention except taking the charge up past 24.5 at max cartridge length, I still have a couple hundred of the bullets so I will give it a shot next time I get out with the AR. 24.5 at 2.250 with the Hornady 68 HPBT Match bullet runs really nicely, so I don't see why I can't get the MK to run too.

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