The "Where is everything?" thread -- guns, ammo, primers, powder, etc.

[DT Guy]

"Waiting" or "hoping".....


Larry

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Sure - just give me credit for the line.

Glenn

[MEATSAW]

Scored several pounds of varget and IMR-8208XBR Friday at cabelas. 22lr is still impossible to find locally.

[vito]

I recently realized that this period of ammunition shortages has caused a basic shift in my perception of need that might be a permanent change. I have not had the chance to do much shooting for the last several months, but I keep buying ammo whenever I have the opportunity. I look at the stockpile I have accumulated in the five calibers of handgun ammo that I shoot (22LR, 38/357, 40 S&W, 380 ACP and 45 ACP) and see that I have more now than at anytime in my life, yet I still feel it makes sense to keep buying. I wonder if when I start using this ammo again if it will trigger as sense of panic when I see my stash start to go down, as it now takes so much more on hand to feel comfortable.

This all reminds me of how I used to think of money. For much of my life I wanted, but had trouble achieving, a few months of take home pay equivalent in savings as a hedge against emergencies. Now I have much more than that, but it never "feels" like enough.

I just wonder how many folks have changed like I have, and will this keep the ammo shortages going as a permanent condition. I also wonder what my family will do when I leave this earth; probably dump the ammo for pennies on the dollar just to get rid of it quickly. Or maybe they can line my casket with the unused ammo so that I can maybe take it with me to the great range in the beyond.

[Andy Blozinski]

Academy hasn't had their .22LR last more than 15 minutes since the panic started. Today, I went by the Gander Mountain Firearms Supercenter near 290 & 1960 in Houston and they had bricks of CCI standard velocity piled up on the counter....on a Sunday. Unfortunately they're actually selling them as the individual 50 round boxes that are inside the larger 500 round cardboard pack, so it comes out to $50 for (500) rounds.
I forgot to look for .380, but they have whole racks exclusively devoted and fully stocked with common rounds such as 9mm, .223, .45. They had .38 special CCI Blazer brass in (250) packs.
I guess I should have gone by that place sooner. They had previously been lame, hence I stopped bothering to check them out. I only noticed they had become the "firearms supercenter" a few weeks ago and finally got around to checking out if it was hype or not. It's not hype. They have a lot of everything and I'm not just talking ammo.
They were still limiting people to (10) 50 round boxes of the CCI .22LR, but otherwise the ammo panic has ended at that store.

[StukaJU87]

There's a reason why Gouger Mountain looks like the panic never happened. They have a lot because they charge a lot and most people have enough foresight to refuse to be taken by outrageous prices. Sure they get a few people with more money then sense, that think they "did good" by paying more than everyone knows they should have. But hey, at least they got something you couldn't and isn't that what this whole panic is about right know? Bragging rights?

That's why I'm glad I stocked up before, so I can wait until I find a real deal instead of being forced to buy what I, and the stores, know is a rip off.

I still buy far more than I need, I'm just smarter about it. I might hit 4 or 5 stores instead of just one. I never wait in line for over priced ammo. I never wait in line for product to be passed out. Sometimes I find a deal, most times I don't. I always find ammo, but I don't buy unless it's at, or below, pre-panic prices. I'm not saying it's easy but it can be done. You just need to be patient and focus on what you're paying per box, instead how many boxes you bought.

[Andy Blozinski]

I guess I don't understand your statement. Why are you saying Academy and Wal-Mart are stores that gouge everybody?
You clearly stated Academy and Wal-Mart gouges people because you clearly stated the prices Gander Mountain charges are gouging prices. Guess what? They were the same prices Academy and Wal-Mart charges, so this can only mean those stores gouge people as well.
(350) rounds of CCI blazer brass in 9mm goes for $120 no matter where you go here.

[JMP]

Sportsman's in Cheyenne had CCI 22LR this morning, was on the shelf and nobody rushing to get it. I'm sure it will be gone before too long though.

I ran out of Nosler 200 grain .308 Accubonds and I can't find them anywhere now, even online. Anyone got any suggestions for them? I bought Barnes TSX to replace them but I'd rather have the Noslers since I already have a load worked up for them.

[StukaJU87]

Andy Blozinski: Not sure how my statement was confusing? All I was saying was shop around, look for real deals instead of buying the first thing you see.

I was talking mostly about 22lr prices but my statement can extend to other calibers, depending on the retailer. The Walmart in my area doesn't charge anywhere near what Gander Mountain charges. My Walmart still charges around $20/500, while Gander Mountain charges around $10/50. Which explains why Gander Mountain has 22lr and Walmart doesn't. Sometimes Gander Mountain will run a "sale" and charges $7/50. Not really a sale if you ask me.

(350) rounds of CCI blazer brass in 9mm goes for $120 no matter where you go here.

Maybe where you are but a store in my area was running a 10% off all ammo sale and I was lucky enough to get a 1000rd case of bulk 9mm 115gr FMJ for $224.

[Jimboh247]

This weekend, both Dick's and Gander Mtn in Winston-Salem, NC had 22 LR.
Federal bulk 325 round pack for $21 w/ tax. Not exactly cheap. but it beats $50 I have seen.

[xcalibor67]

I have been trying get my hands on some 5lb kegs of RL19 for about 10 months now...Been checking all the BIG names lately, Midaway< Natchy> Midsouth etc...I keep reading its all about supply and demand. Ok I might buy that, but theres 1 glitch...I understand distributers splitting up to several retailers so they all get a lil.. But it seems odd that none of the big names have not got ANY in the last 10 months...And I really don't think distributers would give it to the mom and pop stores 1st, when the big names buy so damn much..So just where is all the powder going? Does it have anything to do with the feds 100yr supply order?
On a side note, I read an article from a book published in the 80's, where they claim that in that modern day era, they could make enough powder in 2 weeks that would amount to the same quantity that was used in all of WW2.
So in 2013, all I can say is, HMMMM..

[Garycw]

Gander mnt in SW Ohio had 22lr 4.99@ box standard velocity limit 5 and CCI mini mag 100@$7.99 limit 1. They considered 100 a bulk pack. I guess I'm glad they did, there was only three 100 packs left. Lots of the 50 rnd boxes. All other ammo cal. Instock and not quite as high as I remembered. At least they had all calibers

[Levant]

Local Walmart has 400 round ammo cans of 5.56, 62 grain Federal FMJ for 199.99.

[vito]

I stopped at MC Sports here in Rockford, IL yesterday, and the only handgun ammo they had was some 45acp that I didn't need, and some Hornady hollow point 40S&W at $20 for a box of 20. They haven't had a single box of 22LR, according to the gun department manager, for almost a year. I would have thought that by now most of the shortage situation would be resolved but I guess I was wrong. I was told, however, that Remington was opening a new plant to make 22LR and that this should have a national impact on availability.

[Closing The Gap]

There is nothing anywhere that I can find to suggest that Remington's new ammunition plant will be making 22LR. As far as a national impact I sincerely doubt that to be the case. There are far to many factors involved in this shortage for a single facility to remedy.

[LynnTX]

We have had a couple of breaks in our area recently.

1. Gander Mountain opened a new store near Town East Mall (East of Dallas proper). They had huge stock of very popular ammo (9mm target ammo and better SD varieties in quantity. Prices were not pre-panic, but they were not huge gouging prices either. Only exception was 22 LR, they could not keep it on the shelves. The panic buyers bought out everything, no matter how much they put out.

2. Just last week, Academy Sports opened a new large store in N. Garland, Firewheel area (east suburb of Dallas). I finally got by there last evening and I was stunned at how much popular ammo was stacked on their shelves. Again, the only exception being limited was 22 LR (CCI). They were rationing 2 boxes per person so they would have some in stock for other customers. Prices of everything was actually pretty reasonable considering where we have been over the last couple of years. Picked up some 9 mm and 22 LR. I have enough of everything else to go to the range occasionally now.

It was great to see large stocks of 45 acp, 40 S&W, 38 sp and loads of rifle ammo of just about every type.

I'm surprised someone with the coins does not start up a new 22 LR plant. Probably better investment than GOLD Bullion.

[745SW]

The Visalia, CA gun show this past weekend, October 12 &13. This was a very small show by RMGS (Rocky Mountain Gun Shows) within a single building that can be walked in an hour or so. Many vendors/sellers will not participate at this location again anytime soon because of the poor sales most likely related to the low number of attendees/consumers.

Miwall the large ammo seller was present and the prices I noticed are of this vendor. 9mm name brand was about $17 and up per 50 rounds. 45ACP name brand was about $23 and up per 50 rounds. CCI Mini Mags 22LR about $10 per 100 rounds. Federal 223/5.56 loose bulk pack 1000 rounds was under $500 OTD (out the door).

My guess is the rifle ammo is coming down faster than pistol ammo because rifle ammo is comparatively a luxury.

The next show at this location has been announced by RMGS as December 28-29, 2013. Miwall, on their site of coming shows, appears will not participate until at least after August 2014. RMGS is known by some to cancel shows without notice on their website. Probably best to call one of the vendors to confirm a day or so prior to the show date.

[Unclenick]

xcalibor67,

A lot of online places are constantly filling back orders and aren't getting caught up, so what they receive never goes far enough to appear as being in stock, even though they have flow-through.

One problem people have is not realizing just how big the U.S. small arms ammunition market is. Currently around 18 billion rounds a year, if what I've read is correct. Over ten times what government normally consumes. But even though that number is huge, it's still only about 55 rounds for every person in the country, or 220 rounds per family of four per year. So you can see how, if every family that goes through a brick of .22's a year got concerned and bought two bricks instead of one, it would cut into the supply availability because it doubled demand.

I took a managerial accounting class in college and can tell you that not investing any more in production capacity than is absolutely necessary to meet demand is a constant concern. If you can't count on a return on that investment, you're not only paying interest on loans for things you don't need, you are giving up the chance of using the money to earn money elsewhere (opportunity cost), so you lose twice. As a result, you can bet that when this mess started there wasn't much excess capacity on line. Adding a shift was previously downtime is about all that could be done. That increases cost because it's usually done first with overtime, which reduces profit off the equipment needed to maintain or replace it if you don't raise prices, so many have done just that. But even adding an extra shift of new employees doesn't help when no increase in raw materials is in the pipeline. That takes several months to overcome, assuming the raw materials suppliers have what you need and can sell it to you. Raw materials have become a big bottleneck. It's a mess.

[Levant]

I didn't take any classes in college (ok, I took a few late in life but not managerial accounting) but I completely agree.

It's a balanced system of supply and demand. Even a slight, single-digit percentage, increase in demand will crush the supply side - not just for ammunition but for everything on the shelves. Wise manufacturers of anything are not sitting on unused capacity.

And adding new capacity is a gamble. It's almost certain that there is a limited life to this panic. One of two outcomes are most likely, the third possibility is unlikely. Most likely are either that the liberals back off on the current level of anti-gun pressure and demand drops back to match supply, or, the political pressure stays on and the liberals win, banning guns or ammunition.

Either of these outcomes would mean the manager who approved large scale growth in capacity is looking for a new job.

The third possibility, not a likely one in my mind, is that the current demand becomes the new normal. If that's the case, eventually prices will rise from the manufacturers and that increase will pay for capacity. With new capacity, eventually, there will be a balance and prices will drop and availability will be what it was pre-Obama.

But do you know what will happen then? People will get comfortable. There's no need to buy 3 boxes of ammunition just because it's on the shelf. People will think they can always wait until tomorrow or later to get that ammo... Demand will drop to pre-panic days... and those who really believed the new norm was today's panic demand will be looking for new jobs.

[Wreck-n-Crew]

I took a managerial accounting class in college and can tell you that not investing any more in production capacity than is absolutely necessary to meet demand is a constant concern.

Drove my teacher crazy in accounting 101 ( this was after they merged 101,102, and 103 to form two classes of 101 and 102) when people refered to credit in a debit context...lol.

For reloaders:
The bullet works has in stock 147Grn Plated 9mm, some 38, and 45acp also plated. Very reasonable with free shipping. I have shot 180 of the 1000 9mm I ordered and they work well.
http://www.thebulletworks.net/category-s/137.htm

They also have plenty of cast bullets in stock: http://www.thebulletworks.net/category-s/20.htm

[Kimio]

Ammunition in regards to .22lr appears to by abysmal still. Was checking out Ammoseek.com and the cheapest that I could find for some CCI mini mags (100 rnds) was around $35-$40 bucks. Yeesh.

[Levant]

Well, it's still bad. After weeks of seeing bulk 5.56 ammo at Walmart, I finally decided I'd get some. Of course they're out. They sold the last box they had 5 minutes before I got to the counter. It just goes to show, if you want it and you see it, then buy it. It may not be there later. And thus continues the shortage.

I won't make the mistake of walking past ammo for a while.

[rdmallory]

22LR is showing up around here (Daytona) Dicks $39 500, $19 375 target.
Gander Mtn had 100 CCI mini mags $7.95.
Neither was a good deal but they did have it in stock.

Doug

[Glenn E. Meyer]

Local Walmart - no handgun ammo except one box of 40. Lots of 223 and EBRs in the rifle case.

[coldbeer]

It's not going to get back to normal for a long time. People are obsessed with buying way more ammo than need and I'm not playing that game. It'll be another year at least before things get back to normal unless there's another shooting and people flip out again.