High Grade loads - What reloader?

jhf · April 4, 2005, 05:58 PM

I am looking into getting another press for reloading, I am looking into starting long range rifle matches 223, 30 06 cal. Volume is not a big issue, however I do hate having to swap dies on a single machine. Also is there a auto powder system out there that is accurate enough? or should I plan on measuring each load.

So what press set up should i look into? and can one press load both match grade rifle and pistol?

thanks for your time

jhf

klw · April 4, 2005, 06:41 PM

For most of my adult life I collected reloading equipment. I particularly like complete reloaders, Jordans, Potters, Hollywoods and progressives. One day someone offered to buy all this and I sold. Had my fun and got my money back.

I did, however, want to keep a couple machines, one for volume reloading and one for small batches of very high accuracy stuff. For the latter I settled on the currently available Lyman turret and the new RCBS automatic powder system.

The Lyman turret is, in my opinion, the best turret available particularly if you want to loktite your dies in place in the turret head and then just change heads to change calibers. I've got a total of 50 heads for mine.

I tried the RCBS turret and it is ok but I prefer the Lyman.

I've also tried several of the automatic powder systems and quite a few powder measures. Though a Harrell powder measure is hard to beat, I'm ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that the new RCBS Range Master Combo is SUBSTANTIALLY BETTER. I'm REAL sure about this because I'm using both now and with Green Dot at least about once every hundred rounds or so the Harrell will give you one very small charge followed by one very large one. It isn't the powder measure's fault as much as the powder's ability to clump but, well, this is a problem that the RCBS doesn't have.

I've used other fully automatic powder systems. This is better unit. Overly complicated because of all the "features" but it is well worth the money.

I'm going to continue to use my Harrell but I'm going to use it in conjunction with Lyman's new 1500 XP electronic reloading scale. I've finally decided that if I'm going to use a powder measure that I'm also going to weigh every single charge. This particular Lyman has a built in powder trickler which will make correcting undercharges easier. Lyman has not started shipping this unit yet.

jhf · April 4, 2005, 06:52 PM

Thank klw, good info, can i ask what you think about dies too?,

Bob - S.C. · April 4, 2005, 08:05 PM

Jeff, you choice of equipment will be dependent on just how much accuracy you want. I shoot AR-15's and I want extreme accuracy. Volume is also not an issue with me either. I decided on the RCBS RockChucker Supreme, RCBS competition die set, but, I use the Hornady LNL bushings in my press and on my dies so it literally takes 1 second to change dies. For a powder measure, I decided on the PACT electronic scale system. It is extremely accurate (depending on your powder choice). I was not impressed with the RCBS system because it takes quite a long time to measure powder. I am using the RCBS case trimming system and it is, again, very accurate. I did a lot of research (for about 3 months). So, once you have deprimed, resized and cleaned your primer pocket hole, you can trim your case length to an exact 0.000 of an inch each and every time. That makes a big difference, at least in my AR's. With the competition dies you can seat your bullet to within 0.002 very consistentaly and that all adds up to 1/8" goups at 100 meters. To me, it is worth the extra effort and time but the equipment also plays a large part in that too! Just my 0.02.

klw · April 4, 2005, 08:57 PM

I'm not a good enought shot to notice any difference between brands. I have used very expensive competition dies but for my skill level that was just money wasted.

jhf · April 5, 2005, 04:39 PM

thanks bob, based on cost do you think a regular rockchucker woul work as well? and will the lnl bushing set work with that set up. i really need to look into that set up as it would solve my issues with switching dies. as for the case trimmer, are you talking about this system?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...146427621&rd=1

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...146222228&rd=1

I would like to produce ammo at the quality you described

cheygriz · April 5, 2005, 06:18 PM

for the "top 'o the line" in turrets, I would go with the Redding T7!!

If a single stage would serve your purpose, the Redding or the Forster Co-Ax would be hard to beat.

Lyman also makes an outstanding turret, as was mentioned earlier.

klw · April 5, 2005, 06:46 PM

Redding, unfortunately, never really understood that some people would want to own multiple turrets. I think that you can buy them for the T-7 but they are expensive.

Also you only need a lot of die positions in a turret if you are going to set up one than one set of dies per turret. If you aren't, then there is no reason to go for seven.

When Redding designed this turret they envisioned two versions, one for a new set of large diameter dies. That never materialized but it is the reason why the Redding turret is so large.

Bob - S.C. · April 5, 2005, 08:22 PM

Jeff, if you are looking to produce very accurate loads, I think you would like the rockchucker press. It is obviously not designed to produce a large volume of loaded cartridges, but it will produce very accurate loads. I am sure there are other presses that will do the same job, I just happen to like the rockchucker because of its' design and functionability. If you look at the Hornady web site, you can see and/or order the conversion kit. The part number is 044099. The Hornady web site is www.hornady.com. Of course the other issue is your powder measure device. For my purposes, the Pact will give you the best results. Not inexpensive, but very reliable and very accurate on measurements. I prefer the H322 powder from Hodgden. It meters very well and produces the most accurate loads that I have produced thus far. I have tried several powders and nothing seems to do as well in my AR's as H322. H335 does pretty well, but in my rifles, H322 is the best I have found. Hope this helps.

30Cal · April 6, 2005, 12:07 PM

What kind of competition (how big is your target/10-ring) and what would you consider long range? I assume you mean 600yds and more.

I shoot NRA Highpower with an M1A. I trim brass every other firing, uniform all primer pockets and deburr all flash holes. The only time I ever measure individual charges (+/- 0.1grs) is for my 600yd loads--at 200 and 300, any variability in charge weight (+/- 0.3grs) is insignificant considering the size of the target (7" 10-ring). My ability to dope the wind is more limiting than the accuracy of my ammo. I load on a Dillon 550B with standard FL sizing die and a Redding Comp seating die.

I did recently purchase a Harrell powder measure and find that it's not very often that I need to tweak a charge for 600yds (one in 20).

I don't like spending a lot of time at the reloading bench. I want a maximum of points with a minimum of time. You come rather quickly to the realm of diminishing returns where it takes much much more time invested at the bench for a very small gain in points on the firing line. If your targets are smaller, you may need to spend more time than I do.

I got a silver medal and 10 Leg points this past weekend in a CMP EiC match (cleaned my sitting rapid target at 200yds) shooting the M1A and loads as described above. The points that I dropped were my fault, not fliers. 483-10X

Ty

jhf · April 6, 2005, 04:03 PM

Most of my shooting would be 200-300 yard but would like to eventually move up to 500 yard +. I would prefer to make a sound choice now when i go to purchase the equipment and not have to look to completely upgrade latter on, hense the reason i am looking for the info. All the info in the thread is helping me decide on what to eventuallly get

jhf

cheygriz · April 7, 2005, 10:19 PM

Klw,

Yes, you can buy turrets for the Redding. And yes, they are a bit expensive. I suppose if you're loading enough calibres to own 50 heads, (Is that a typo, or do you really have 50 heads for your Lyman?) the cost of turrets becomes a factor quickly. OTOH, the 7 hole Redding allows a minimum of 2 calibrers per head, or three with 2 die rifle sets. A guy loading six calibres would only need two additional heads.

Like you, I am really impressed with the Lyman turret, but I'm much more impressed with the big Redding. Sure, it costs a bit more, but to me, at least, it's more than worth it.

klw · April 7, 2005, 10:54 PM

Yes I do actually own 50 heads for my Lyman turret. I've also got 10 heads for my RCBS. I bought the RCBS because the cost of the Lyman turret heads went up a lot a few years ago. The RCBS is ok but the Lyman is better. Easier to turn and sturdier. At one time I actually had all 60 of these heads full of dies. These days, however, after selling off some of my rifles I've got dies in about 45 heads with 15 now empty.

If you like impressive turret presses, you should look into an old Hollywood Universal. They had twelve position heads and actually could be removed much like the Lyman or RCBS. They also had a four position turret for primer posts (back then there were two type of primers (flat and curved bottomed) and two sizes (large and small)) and a four position turret for shell holders. There were three such machines. The Hollywood Super Turret had to be seen to be believed.

Redding makes nice equipment but I'll stick to my Lyman and RCBS.

April 4, 2005, 05:58 PM	#1
jhf Junior Member Join Date: March 23, 2005 Posts: 13	High Grade loads - What reloader? I am looking into getting another press for reloading, I am looking into starting long range rifle matches 223, 30 06 cal. Volume is not a big issue, however I do hate having to swap dies on a single machine. Also is there a auto powder system out there that is accurate enough? or should I plan on measuring each load. So what press set up should i look into? and can one press load both match grade rifle and pistol? thanks for your time jhf

April 4, 2005, 06:41 PM	#2
klw Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2005 Posts: 118	Interesting Question For most of my adult life I collected reloading equipment. I particularly like complete reloaders, Jordans, Potters, Hollywoods and progressives. One day someone offered to buy all this and I sold. Had my fun and got my money back. I did, however, want to keep a couple machines, one for volume reloading and one for small batches of very high accuracy stuff. For the latter I settled on the currently available Lyman turret and the new RCBS automatic powder system. The Lyman turret is, in my opinion, the best turret available particularly if you want to loktite your dies in place in the turret head and then just change heads to change calibers. I've got a total of 50 heads for mine. I tried the RCBS turret and it is ok but I prefer the Lyman. I've also tried several of the automatic powder systems and quite a few powder measures. Though a Harrell powder measure is hard to beat, I'm ABSOLUTELY POSITIVE that the new RCBS Range Master Combo is SUBSTANTIALLY BETTER. I'm REAL sure about this because I'm using both now and with Green Dot at least about once every hundred rounds or so the Harrell will give you one very small charge followed by one very large one. It isn't the powder measure's fault as much as the powder's ability to clump but, well, this is a problem that the RCBS doesn't have. I've used other fully automatic powder systems. This is better unit. Overly complicated because of all the "features" but it is well worth the money. I'm going to continue to use my Harrell but I'm going to use it in conjunction with Lyman's new 1500 XP electronic reloading scale. I've finally decided that if I'm going to use a powder measure that I'm also going to weigh every single charge. This particular Lyman has a built in powder trickler which will make correcting undercharges easier. Lyman has not started shipping this unit yet.

April 4, 2005, 08:57 PM	#5
klw Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2005 Posts: 118	Die Selection I'm not a good enought shot to notice any difference between brands. I have used very expensive competition dies but for my skill level that was just money wasted.

April 5, 2005, 06:18 PM	#7
cheygriz Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2002 Location: high up in the rockies Posts: 2,289	for the "top 'o the line" in turrets, I would go with the Redding T7!! If a single stage would serve your purpose, the Redding or the Forster Co-Ax would be hard to beat. Lyman also makes an outstanding turret, as was mentioned earlier. __________________ If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.

April 5, 2005, 06:46 PM	#8
klw Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2005 Posts: 118	The Redding Turret Redding, unfortunately, never really understood that some people would want to own multiple turrets. I think that you can buy them for the T-7 but they are expensive. Also you only need a lot of die positions in a turret if you are going to set up one than one set of dies per turret. If you aren't, then there is no reason to go for seven. When Redding designed this turret they envisioned two versions, one for a new set of large diameter dies. That never materialized but it is the reason why the Redding turret is so large.

April 4, 2005, 06:52 PM	#3
jhf Junior Member Join Date: March 23, 2005 Posts: 13	Thank klw, good info, can i ask what you think about dies too?,

April 4, 2005, 08:05 PM	#4
Bob - S.C. Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: South Carolina Posts: 19	Jeff, you choice of equipment will be dependent on just how much accuracy you want. I shoot AR-15's and I want extreme accuracy. Volume is also not an issue with me either. I decided on the RCBS RockChucker Supreme, RCBS competition die set, but, I use the Hornady LNL bushings in my press and on my dies so it literally takes 1 second to change dies. For a powder measure, I decided on the PACT electronic scale system. It is extremely accurate (depending on your powder choice). I was not impressed with the RCBS system because it takes quite a long time to measure powder. I am using the RCBS case trimming system and it is, again, very accurate. I did a lot of research (for about 3 months). So, once you have deprimed, resized and cleaned your primer pocket hole, you can trim your case length to an exact 0.000 of an inch each and every time. That makes a big difference, at least in my AR's. With the competition dies you can seat your bullet to within 0.002 very consistentaly and that all adds up to 1/8" goups at 100 meters. To me, it is worth the extra effort and time but the equipment also plays a large part in that too! Just my 0.02.

April 5, 2005, 04:39 PM	#6
jhf Junior Member Join Date: March 23, 2005 Posts: 13	thanks bob, based on cost do you think a regular rockchucker woul work as well? and will the lnl bushing set work with that set up. i really need to look into that set up as it would solve my issues with switching dies. as for the case trimmer, are you talking about this system? http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...146427621&rd=1 http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...146222228&rd=1 I would like to produce ammo at the quality you described

April 5, 2005, 08:22 PM	#9
Bob - S.C. Member Join Date: March 13, 2005 Location: South Carolina Posts: 19	Jeff, if you are looking to produce very accurate loads, I think you would like the rockchucker press. It is obviously not designed to produce a large volume of loaded cartridges, but it will produce very accurate loads. I am sure there are other presses that will do the same job, I just happen to like the rockchucker because of its' design and functionability. If you look at the Hornady web site, you can see and/or order the conversion kit. The part number is 044099. The Hornady web site is www.hornady.com. Of course the other issue is your powder measure device. For my purposes, the Pact will give you the best results. Not inexpensive, but very reliable and very accurate on measurements. I prefer the H322 powder from Hodgden. It meters very well and produces the most accurate loads that I have produced thus far. I have tried several powders and nothing seems to do as well in my AR's as H322. H335 does pretty well, but in my rifles, H322 is the best I have found. Hope this helps.

April 6, 2005, 12:07 PM	#10
30Cal Senior Member Join Date: December 3, 2002 Posts: 1,264	What kind of competition (how big is your target/10-ring) and what would you consider long range? I assume you mean 600yds and more. I shoot NRA Highpower with an M1A. I trim brass every other firing, uniform all primer pockets and deburr all flash holes. The only time I ever measure individual charges (+/- 0.1grs) is for my 600yd loads--at 200 and 300, any variability in charge weight (+/- 0.3grs) is insignificant considering the size of the target (7" 10-ring). My ability to dope the wind is more limiting than the accuracy of my ammo. I load on a Dillon 550B with standard FL sizing die and a Redding Comp seating die. I did recently purchase a Harrell powder measure and find that it's not very often that I need to tweak a charge for 600yds (one in 20). I don't like spending a lot of time at the reloading bench. I want a maximum of points with a minimum of time. You come rather quickly to the realm of diminishing returns where it takes much much more time invested at the bench for a very small gain in points on the firing line. If your targets are smaller, you may need to spend more time than I do. I got a silver medal and 10 Leg points this past weekend in a CMP EiC match (cleaned my sitting rapid target at 200yds) shooting the M1A and loads as described above. The points that I dropped were my fault, not fliers. 483-10X Ty

April 6, 2005, 04:03 PM	#11
jhf Junior Member Join Date: March 23, 2005 Posts: 13	thanks, and keep it coming this is great info Most of my shooting would be 200-300 yard but would like to eventually move up to 500 yard +. I would prefer to make a sound choice now when i go to purchase the equipment and not have to look to completely upgrade latter on, hense the reason i am looking for the info. All the info in the thread is helping me decide on what to eventuallly get jhf

April 7, 2005, 10:19 PM	#12
cheygriz Senior Member Join Date: May 11, 2002 Location: high up in the rockies Posts: 2,289	Klw, Yes, you can buy turrets for the Redding. And yes, they are a bit expensive. I suppose if you're loading enough calibres to own 50 heads, (Is that a typo, or do you really have 50 heads for your Lyman?) the cost of turrets becomes a factor quickly. OTOH, the 7 hole Redding allows a minimum of 2 calibrers per head, or three with 2 die rifle sets. A guy loading six calibres would only need two additional heads. Like you, I am really impressed with the Lyman turret, but I'm much more impressed with the big Redding. Sure, it costs a bit more, but to me, at least, it's more than worth it. __________________ If you think a mighty military force is expensive, wait 'til you see what a weak one costs.

April 7, 2005, 10:54 PM	#13
klw Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2005 Posts: 118	Turrets Yes I do actually own 50 heads for my Lyman turret. I've also got 10 heads for my RCBS. I bought the RCBS because the cost of the Lyman turret heads went up a lot a few years ago. The RCBS is ok but the Lyman is better. Easier to turn and sturdier. At one time I actually had all 60 of these heads full of dies. These days, however, after selling off some of my rifles I've got dies in about 45 heads with 15 now empty. If you like impressive turret presses, you should look into an old Hollywood Universal. They had twelve position heads and actually could be removed much like the Lyman or RCBS. They also had a four position turret for primer posts (back then there were two type of primers (flat and curved bottomed) and two sizes (large and small)) and a four position turret for shell holders. There were three such machines. The Hollywood Super Turret had to be seen to be believed. Redding makes nice equipment but I'll stick to my Lyman and RCBS.