Question about Gas Check Cast Bullets in a Rifle

Tennessee Jed · May 13, 2013, 11:48 AM

The difficulty in finding jacketed 30-30 bullets has me thinking about using cast bullets with gas checks. However, I'm not sure about some of the reloading info I am seeing on powder manufacturer websites.

For example, Hogdon lists a 30-30 load for H4895 and a 160 grain cast bullet that tops out for velocity of only 1562 fps. The pressure on that load is only 23,100 CUP, while their max load for a 150 grain jacketed bullet tops out at 2,390 fps and 36,700 CUP.

What I'm wondering is if it's possible to get a gas-checked cast bullet for a rifle up to at least near jacketed bullet velocity? Or, if I go with cast, even with a gas check, does that mean I'm still going to be running at greatly reduced velocities?

243winxb · May 13, 2013, 02:02 PM

Hodgdons website data is with a 24" barrel. The 30-30 is a cartridge that can get very close to 170 gr jacketed bullets velocity using gas checked hard lead bullets of the same weight or heavier. Using a T/C Contender 10" barrel with IMR 4895 - 27.5 gr- 173 gr gas checked, gave 1500 fps. I didnt check velocity in the Win 94, but it should be higher with more barrel length.

Mike / Tx · May 13, 2013, 06:19 PM

I highly suggest you read through this link and adhere to what is mentioned in it. You will find that while there are several commercial cast bullets, some if not all of them might be quite a bit harder than what is needed.

30/30 CB Deer?

I am looking into this as well but to use in my .308. Since I have the molds and will be casting my own, I have a bit more influence on how they will turn out. Even so I have been reading threads like the one I posted and trying to get a handle on just how I need to work my alloy and to what velocities I should expect them to preform. So far I am looking at a 50/50 blend of wheel weights and pure lead, water quenched to give an outer hardness, but still pliable core, and a velocity window of around 2000 - 2200fps on the top end.

Like most of what you will find while reading post like the one linked above, cast doesn't have to be driven to jacketed velocities in order to preform. Remember the jacketed bullets have to go fast enough to rupture and expand the jackets along with a bit harder core alloy. With cast there is no jacket to have to rupture and the with the outer shell being hardened by quenching, that then becomes the jacket, which is still very much softer than the actual guilding material which is used on jacketed bullets.

Tennessee Jed · May 13, 2013, 06:31 PM

Very interesting, thank you. I was seriously questioning whether cast was worth it, but it sounds like I can expect lower recoil and better terminal performance, at a lower cost. I am going to look into this very closely. Thanks so much!

243winxb · May 13, 2013, 06:52 PM

Use a Lyman "M" die to open the case mouth for bullet seating. Bullet diameter of .310" after sizing is what i used. If bullets drop undersize from the mold, add linotype. The antimony in the lynotype makes for a larger diameter bullet

YARDDOG(1) · May 13, 2013, 06:59 PM

"If bullets drop undersize from the mold, add linotype. The antimony in the lynotype makes for a larger diameter bullet"

A little Tin as in solder,, Works Great for bullet fill out ; )
Y/D

reloader28 · May 14, 2013, 08:05 AM

I think you'll really like cast bullets, but maybe not commercial cast. Make your own and never look back.
My 30-30's will never see another condom bullet again.

May 13, 2013, 11:48 AM	#1
Tennessee Jed Member Join Date: July 14, 2010 Posts: 92	Question about Gas Check Cast Bullets in a Rifle The difficulty in finding jacketed 30-30 bullets has me thinking about using cast bullets with gas checks. However, I'm not sure about some of the reloading info I am seeing on powder manufacturer websites. For example, Hogdon lists a 30-30 load for H4895 and a 160 grain cast bullet that tops out for velocity of only 1562 fps. The pressure on that load is only 23,100 CUP, while their max load for a 150 grain jacketed bullet tops out at 2,390 fps and 36,700 CUP. What I'm wondering is if it's possible to get a gas-checked cast bullet for a rifle up to at least near jacketed bullet velocity? Or, if I go with cast, even with a gas check, does that mean I'm still going to be running at greatly reduced velocities?

May 13, 2013, 06:19 PM	#3
Mike / Tx Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2000 Posts: 2,101	I highly suggest you read through this link and adhere to what is mentioned in it. You will find that while there are several commercial cast bullets, some if not all of them might be quite a bit harder than what is needed. 30/30 CB Deer? I am looking into this as well but to use in my .308. Since I have the molds and will be casting my own, I have a bit more influence on how they will turn out. Even so I have been reading threads like the one I posted and trying to get a handle on just how I need to work my alloy and to what velocities I should expect them to preform. So far I am looking at a 50/50 blend of wheel weights and pure lead, water quenched to give an outer hardness, but still pliable core, and a velocity window of around 2000 - 2200fps on the top end. Like most of what you will find while reading post like the one linked above, cast doesn't have to be driven to jacketed velocities in order to preform. Remember the jacketed bullets have to go fast enough to rupture and expand the jackets along with a bit harder core alloy. With cast there is no jacket to have to rupture and the with the outer shell being hardened by quenching, that then becomes the jacket, which is still very much softer than the actual guilding material which is used on jacketed bullets. __________________ LAter, Mike / TX

May 13, 2013, 06:52 PM	#5
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	30-30 Cast Bullets Use a Lyman "M" die to open the case mouth for bullet seating. Bullet diameter of .310" after sizing is what i used. If bullets drop undersize from the mold, add linotype. The antimony in the lynotype makes for a larger diameter bullet

May 13, 2013, 06:59 PM	#6
YARDDOG(1) Senior Member Join Date: October 24, 2008 Location: GATOR COUNTRY HA HA HA! Posts: 721	"If bullets drop undersize from the mold, add linotype. The antimony in the lynotype makes for a larger diameter bullet" A little Tin as in solder,, Works Great for bullet fill out ; ) Y/D __________________ There's a GATOR in the bushes & She's Callin my name >Molly Hatchett<

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May 13, 2013, 02:02 PM	#2
243winxb Senior Member Join Date: July 26, 2011 Location: USA Posts: 1,730	Hodgdons website data is with a 24" barrel. The 30-30 is a cartridge that can get very close to 170 gr jacketed bullets velocity using gas checked hard lead bullets of the same weight or heavier. Using a T/C Contender 10" barrel with IMR 4895 - 27.5 gr- 173 gr gas checked, gave 1500 fps. I didnt check velocity in the Win 94, but it should be higher with more barrel length.

May 13, 2013, 06:31 PM	#4
Tennessee Jed Member Join Date: July 14, 2010 Posts: 92	Very interesting, thank you. I was seriously questioning whether cast was worth it, but it sounds like I can expect lower recoil and better terminal performance, at a lower cost. I am going to look into this very closely. Thanks so much!

May 14, 2013, 08:05 AM	#7
reloader28 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2009 Location: nw wyoming Posts: 1,061	I think you'll really like cast bullets, but maybe not commercial cast. Make your own and never look back. My 30-30's will never see another condom bullet again.