How fast with cast bullets?

[mapsjanhere]

In another thread, someone posted he could reload 308 Winchester for $.25, and that got me looking around. I couldn't find a recipe quite that cheap, but with Prvi FMJ for 17 cents each, 11 cents powder and 3 cents primer I ended up at $.31, what's close. Anything cheaper would require using cast bullets. There are a lot on the market in the right caliber, but by weight and shape all seem to be for the 30-30 or similar. Is there a way to make cast bullets that hold up at typical 308 loads, lets say 168 grain in the 2600 - 2700 ft/s range?

[wncchester]

"Is there a way to make cast bullets that hold up at typical 308 loads, lets say 168 grain in the 2600 - 2700 ft/s range?"

Not really, at least not easily or inexpensively. The acceleration to achive those speeds exceeds the surface strength of common lead alloys so the rifling strips. Seems the practical speed limit for normal cast stuff is around 1,800-2,000. When we got smokeless powders and the speed potential exceeded that range is when bullets got copper jackets!

That said, it's pretty easy to make great hunting practice ammo with cast stuff that closely duplicates normal recoil and nearly as good accuracy. I like to use 200 gr cast bullets at about 2,000 fps in my .30-06. They feel about the same as a full power 150 gr. load. Using mostly scrounged lead and wheel weights I can shoot a lot for not much money but they are too hard to expand so I don't use them on deer. (Do use them on squirrel though, with head shots there are no "walking wounded"! )

[Rangefinder]

Is there a way to make cast bullets that hold up at typical 308 loads, lets say 168 grain in the 2600 - 2700 ft/s range?

Paper patching a lead bullet might get you close. typically, a cast lead bullet is highly dependent on the alloy mix as to how hard you can push it. It's not the speed that kills, it's the pressure. Softer lead=lower pressure resistance. But paper patching has been done in excess of 2500fps.

Go here and do a lot of reading---you'll learn the capabilities and limits of lead bullets, including paper patching.

http://www.castboolits.gunloads.com/index.php

[Ideal Tool]

Hello, mapsjanhere. As Rangefinder said, paper patching is one way, Teflon tape is another. And years ago there was the Wilk gas-check..a proper dia. gas check with it's center punched out was inserted into one or more grooves in a HOT mould, & a bullet poured in usual way..speeds up to jacketed velocity were possible. Going back even further..there was the wire-wound bullet. this used a coil of copper wire inserted in std. mould & cast. There was a write up on this in the Handloaders Bullet Making annual 1991 edition.

[AlaskaMike]

With water quenching my bullets (180 grain Lyman 311332) I can get up to about 2300 - 2400 fps before accuracy falls off. This is in .30-06, but I'd suspect you could do it in .308 just as easily.

I also highly recommend castboolits.gunloads.com. It's an excellent resource for cast bullets.

[TXGunNut]

Cast rifle boolits aren't about top speed. 30-30 seems to be the upper limit for using a cast boolit to exploit the limits of a cartridge. A cast bullet allows for economical practice with a rifle chambered for bottleneck cartridges with less recoil. It also allows us to explore the wonderful world of straight-walled rifle cartridges.

[Scorch]

Gas checks work pretty well.

[10 Spot Terminator]

I ran accross one of the best articles I have ever seen on this subject that takes a lot of the guesswork out of "How much is too much" when it comes to cast bullet performance on the site I will list below. It puts a simple math equation equal to the BHN rating of your alloy to show max psi capability for the alloy to be used. You then use published load data for jacket bullets that list psi ratings as your guide. Many who view this will find that many of the faster burning pistol and shotgun powders used as standard powders of choice to not be the best choice for peak performance , cheaper to shoot ? Yes . Best performance ? No. I hope you enjoy reading this as much as I have and get to spend more time at the range which is a good thing, Right ?
The site is ,,,

Jesse's Hunting & Outdoors,,, go to Gun room from menu on the left then scroll to Gun room archives and search Low Pressue & High Velociy with Cast Bullets . The article was written by Andy Moe of their shooting staff.

10 SPOT

[TXGunNut]

Didn't find it on my first try, 10 Spot. Sounds like some innovative thinking so will look for it again. When I select a lead boolit high speed is usually not an objective for me, that's what jacketed bullets are for, but that's just me. I understand other folks might see it differently and it's interesting to see just how fast a simple lead bullet can reasonably fly.

[10 Spot Terminator]

Hi there TXGunNut (and others),,,

I edited my post for more specific instuctions how to access the fine article I mentioned above. Just proofed it myself rather than pulling it from my favorites file. I promise one and all , newbies to casting or old veterans will benefit from this one . My smelter will be fired up later today for sure ,,,

10 SPOT

[TXGunNut]

Thanks, interesting read. Seems its not velocity but pressure that causes leading. Makes sense, was surprised that he didn't use gas checks.
My smelter had a good day today.

[Ideal Tool]

Hello again, Mapsjanhere, I am a member of the Cast Bullet Association, they have postal and shoulder to shoulder matches, which include a high velocity class. You might want to join these fine folks or visit their websight:
castbulletassoc.org

[jmortimer]

You can shoot the Beartooth Bullets hard cast 22 bhn gas check bullets to 2,400 fps http://www.beartoothbullets.com/bulletselect/index.htm