Shoot further

paratrooper · August 12, 2000, 01:34 PM

I'm sure any shooter that has a pulse has seen Quigley Down Under and has marveled at his unusual but effective long gun .
He states that there are 4 extra inches of barrel on it . The velocity has been addressed in other topics and it seems that 1200 fps has been mentioned .
So my question is this . Can I add length to my Win. Model 94 in 30.-30.and get accuracy at long distances ? I'm talking 900 yards or so . I am a machinist and have access to the shop after hours so I can do some of the more mundane machine work myself . Is this " doable " or am I just going wee wee in the wind .
I want a new toy but don't wanna pay a bundle for it .

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TOM
SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA GOA

Rex Feral · August 12, 2000, 02:13 PM

Barrel length really doesn't affect accuracy it just gives more muzzle velocity and a longer sight radius. When you combine flatter trajectory (higher muzzle velocity) and a longer sight radius, hits will be a bit easier at longer ranges, this may make the gun seem more "accurate" but in reality it is just more shootable.

If you are going to shoot regularly at 900yd, you'd be far better off with a .308 or even a .300 Win Mag.

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Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war.

[This message has been edited by Rex Feral (edited August 12, 2000).]

Badger Arms · August 12, 2000, 07:44 PM

Your lever gun won't give you what you are looking for in practical accuracy at that range either. The other practical way to increase velocity is with a rechamber to .307 wincester (rimmed .308) or an improved 30-30.

A longer barrel does give you more sight radius but only really matters if you are using open sights which, at 900 yards, are a bit of a handicap.

Paul B. · August 13, 2000, 03:36 PM

Paratrooper. A longer barrel will give you more velocity. My 20 inch barreled Mod. 94 gives 2350 FPS with a 150 gr bullet. (handload) 2410 FPS from a 24 inch barreled Model 64, and 2490 FPS from a 26 inch barreled full length rifle. (Mod. 94) Not a real long ranged proposition, considering the flat nosed bullets. Rechambering to the 30-30 improved can give somewhat higher velocities, but there is still the flat nosed bullet, unless you want to just have a two-shooter. One in the chamber and one in the magazine. Rechambering to .307 Win. is, in my not too humble opinion, not too good an idea. Here, we are talking about a cartridge developing 50,000 PSI in a rifle designed for about 45,000 PSI. Rifles that Winchester chambered for the .307 a built of stronger steel, and somewhat reinforced at the locking lug area. Having a bolt surgically removed by your dentist does not strike me as a fun proposition.
Paul B.

Dave McC · August 14, 2000, 08:40 AM

Longer bbls aid velocity, to a point. I recall something in American Rifleman some years back, a man built a 30-30 on a Remington Rolling Block,28 inch bbl and only gained 150 FPS over his 20 bbled Model 94.
His theory was the powders used in factory loads were designed to work best in short bbls. After a bbl reached some nominal length, friction would actually slow the bullet down once pressures dropped below a certain point.

However, switching powders to a slower one and using spitzers in that single shot brought velocities up to the 2700 FPS range with the 150 gr bullet.

He regarded that RB 30-30 as a neat toy, and so do I...

August 12, 2000, 01:34 PM	#1
paratrooper Senior Member Join Date: March 31, 2000 Location: Kingman AZ Posts: 1,290	I'm sure any shooter that has a pulse has seen Quigley Down Under and has marveled at his unusual but effective long gun . He states that there are 4 extra inches of barrel on it . The velocity has been addressed in other topics and it seems that 1200 fps has been mentioned . So my question is this . Can I add length to my Win. Model 94 in 30.-30.and get accuracy at long distances ? I'm talking 900 yards or so . I am a machinist and have access to the shop after hours so I can do some of the more mundane machine work myself . Is this " doable " or am I just going wee wee in the wind . I want a new toy but don't wanna pay a bundle for it . ------------------ TOM SASS AMERICAN LEGION NRA GOA

August 12, 2000, 02:13 PM	#2
Rex Feral Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2000 Location: Southern NH, USA Posts: 471	Barrel length really doesn't affect accuracy it just gives more muzzle velocity and a longer sight radius. When you combine flatter trajectory (higher muzzle velocity) and a longer sight radius, hits will be a bit easier at longer ranges, this may make the gun seem more "accurate" but in reality it is just more shootable. If you are going to shoot regularly at 900yd, you'd be far better off with a .308 or even a .300 Win Mag. ------------------ Cry "Havoc!" and let slip the dogs of war. [This message has been edited by Rex Feral (edited August 12, 2000).]

August 12, 2000, 07:44 PM	#3
Badger Arms Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2000 Location: Harnett County, NC Posts: 1,700	Your lever gun won't give you what you are looking for in practical accuracy at that range either. The other practical way to increase velocity is with a rechamber to .307 wincester (rimmed .308) or an improved 30-30. A longer barrel does give you more sight radius but only really matters if you are using open sights which, at 900 yards, are a bit of a handicap.

August 13, 2000, 03:36 PM	#4
Paul B. Senior Member Join Date: March 28, 1999 Location: Tucson, AZ Posts: 3,802	Paratrooper. A longer barrel will give you more velocity. My 20 inch barreled Mod. 94 gives 2350 FPS with a 150 gr bullet. (handload) 2410 FPS from a 24 inch barreled Model 64, and 2490 FPS from a 26 inch barreled full length rifle. (Mod. 94) Not a real long ranged proposition, considering the flat nosed bullets. Rechambering to the 30-30 improved can give somewhat higher velocities, but there is still the flat nosed bullet, unless you want to just have a two-shooter. One in the chamber and one in the magazine. Rechambering to .307 Win. is, in my not too humble opinion, not too good an idea. Here, we are talking about a cartridge developing 50,000 PSI in a rifle designed for about 45,000 PSI. Rifles that Winchester chambered for the .307 a built of stronger steel, and somewhat reinforced at the locking lug area. Having a bolt surgically removed by your dentist does not strike me as a fun proposition. Paul B.

August 14, 2000, 08:40 AM	#5
Dave McC Staff In Memoriam Join Date: October 13, 1999 Location: Columbia, Md, USA Posts: 8,811	Longer bbls aid velocity, to a point. I recall something in American Rifleman some years back, a man built a 30-30 on a Remington Rolling Block,28 inch bbl and only gained 150 FPS over his 20 bbled Model 94. His theory was the powders used in factory loads were designed to work best in short bbls. After a bbl reached some nominal length, friction would actually slow the bullet down once pressures dropped below a certain point. However, switching powders to a slower one and using spitzers in that single shot brought velocities up to the 2700 FPS range with the 150 gr bullet. He regarded that RB 30-30 as a neat toy, and so do I...