Rebated Boat Tail

[Valornor]

So I am biting the bullet soon and ordering swaging dies for .308, .223, and possibly .338. I've got my press on the way, which should be here in the next month. The dies for swaging aren't cheap and I plan in eventually turning out slugs for profit for some local reloaders.

My question is, does anyone have experience with rebated boat tail bullets. From what people say they are suppose to be superiour over regular boat tail. Any special loading considerations?

I'm trying to decide if the added expense of the die is really worth it.

[saitek]

no extensive testingbut the one's i made on my corbon press were very accurate 1

[Valornor]

That is good to know. Corbin is the company I'm ordering everything from. What caliber slugs do you make?

[Brian Pfleuger]

I was looking into making bullets a few months back. I came away convinced that there isn't enough market left for what interested me (making a living) but I was also convinced that if I did make any kind of boattail bullet, they would be rebated.

[jimbob86]

I would think they would be easier to make well, but would be less efficient than a regular boat-tail.

[Valornor]

Good to know. Fortunately for me I dont plan on making a living off it. I read an article that Sierra tested rebated boat tail bullets and found them to be less accurate. Everything else I've come across has said they are more accurate. So I'm trying to find people with experience using them...sort of having to but a bunch and working up my own test loads.

[Brian Pfleuger]

I read an article that Sierra...

I'd recommend contacting Sierra directly and asking about that claim. Might be true, might not, but you may as well get it straight from the horse's mouth. I've contacted several bullet/reloading/powder companies over the years and found them all to be willing to talk and quite helpful.

[Jim Watson]

Sierra does not make rebated boattails, they make conventional boattails.
To sell.

I have shot both Berger conventional boattail VLDs and JLK rebated boattails. I am not a good enough loader and shooter to tell a difference, both are very accurate.

I daresay the rebated boattail forming punch will be sturdier than a plain boattail which will have a knife edge at the junction of boattail and bearing surface.

[Bart B.]

Lapua has made rebated base match bullets for decades. Check out their models D166 and D46 in the following link:

http://www.lapua.com/en/products/reloading/bullets

I've shot their D46 ones measuring 7.85mm (.3092") in 7.62 NATO Garands with accuracy equal to anything Sierra Bullets makes.

Smallest series of 10 shot groups at 600 yards I know of were shot with those 7.85mm diameter D46's; sizes ranged from .7 inch to about 1.5 inch. Another test put 40 of 'em into 1.92 inch at 600.

[Valornor]

Am I correct in assuming you load them with load data that corresponds with the weight? Just like you would boat tails?

[Bart B.]

Yes.

[FrankenMauser]

That is good to know. Corbin is the company I'm ordering everything from. What caliber slugs do you make?

Which Corbin? Richard or Dave?

With Richard, you have about a 3 to 6 week wait (as of 3 weeks ago).
With Dave, it's 14 to 24 months (even for things that are supposedly "in stock"). And, if you want anything custom (non-catalog), you can add 6 to 9 months.

[old roper]

I shoot some of the Matrix bullets here some of their 30 cal ones

http://www.matrixballistics.com/.308...e-bullets.html

http://www.matrixballistics.com/tech_info.html

[4runnerman]

Your best answer is Contact Robert sauter AKA Bullet Bob . Northwest Custom Projectile. He will be able to tell you more than you ever want to know about this bullet. Test's have shown them to be 15% more accurate then a BoatTail.

His web sight is down right now,but you should still be able to get a hold of him, Or you can rouse him on Facebook also. He specialized in Rebated Boattail bullets.

[Bart B.]

Regarding the accuracy difference you'll see between hand-swaged ones using good dies versus mass produced ones of best quality, you'll need a rifle that you can shoot no worse than 1/4 MOA at 100 yards with mass produced ones. Otherwise, the variables in the three parts of the system (rifle, ammo and you) may mask any difference between the bullet types.

Bullet companies making the most accurate bullets use rail guns with precision barrels testing their stuff for quality. That eliminates human error as well as all the variables across rifles that'll shoot them. They can easily see the sub 1/10th MOA differences between bullet types as far as accuracy is concerned.

A friend bought a set of Rorschach dies for 30 caliber 168-gr. match bullets with J4 jackets and precision lead cores; best stuff available at the time. Testing them in his match rifle clamped in a machine rest showed them to be no more accurate than Sierra Bullets' 168's. Both shot about 3/16ths inch at 100 yards, about 1 inch at 300. He sold the dies and shot Sierras.

Your venture may well prove to be worthwhile; best wishes.

[Unclenick]

Lapua's rebated boattail FMJ's have been around since the 1930's, IIRC. I think, for an FMJ match bullet, as they were making at the time, it's probably easier to get an accuracy advantage with the rebated boattail because FMJ jackets are harder to make truly uniform in thickness, making it harder to keep the intersect of a boattail angle with the bearing surface even all around. With modern precision jacket cups and dies, the difference is likely a lot harder to see. One possible advantage, though, is with a rifle that needs recrowning. If gas starts escaping from one side of the muzzle faster than the other, the rebated rim will clear the muzzle more abruptly than the first part of a boattail's taper, and that may mitigate some of the resulting drift injected into the trajectory.

[Bart B.]

It wasn't until the late 1950's when Sierra Bullets' first hollow point match bullets came out that Lapua's FMJRB's, Western Cartridge Company's 180-gr. FMJBT's and good lots of arsenal M2 172-gr. FMJBT bullets were finally out performed. Their 168's and 190's in HPBT form became the ones used for the best scores.

Lapua was the only company that paid more attention to detail and improved their D46 FMJRB bullets to equal Sierra's. But they sometimes dumped the bullets from 2 or more final shaping machines into the same barrel then packaged them. Folks using optical comparators observing their ogives at 30X magnification could easily see 3 or 4 different shapes; proof different dies were used to shape their jackets. And 2 or 3 bullets in box of 100 would not be balanced too good and they'd shoot a 9 on paper when the others went deep in the 10-ring. Hopefully, they've fixed that problem. I've not shot them since the early 1980's.

[Valornor]

I ordered the press from Dave Corbin, and will be ordering the dies probably in Janurary. When I order the dies I'm going to give Both Dave and Richard a call and see what there back order times are like. I'll probably also look around at other die manufactures just to see how they compare. All I've really seen or heard about is the Corbin brothers and CH4D dies.

It's be kidding myself if I would say right now I would be able to tell the difference in accuracy from a 168grn SMK and a handrolled 168grn FMJRB. I neither have the proficiently or the rifle that will give me 1/4 moa groups. Like everything else reloading, form me it's about the satisfaction of doing it myself. It began with making accurate reloads, to making up accurate cast bullets, and now it's making jacket bullets. I just can't get enough of it. I'm really just addicted to it all.

Some twisted part of me enjoys the art of reloading a tiny bit more then shooting....and being able to barter for primers and powder with brass, cast slugs and hopefully some good quality jacketed bullets helps to feed my addiction. Probably won't make a dime off it but I'll have a hell of a time doing it:-).

Thanks for the input, I've enjoyed reading your comments!

[old roper]

Valornor, He is list on who's making dies

http://algunjunkie.webs.com/Download...03-21-2012.pdf

Sierra sells jacket also J-4. When Sierra move out of Cal they sold all there dies/press etc and GTB purchased them for his bullets and he still uses Sierra jackets.

This might make for a good read

http://www.benchrest.com/FAQ/1.shtml

[Valornor]

Thanks for that list. I just got an Emial back from corbin. My press won't ship until after Jan 2014. At least I locked the price in....

My local FFL dealer is a dealer for Berger bullets and orders in jackets. I've gone through him with gun purchases. His profit is made off the percentage he gets back on his Cabelas card. I'll probably get jackets through him, but yeah there are a lot of jacket makers out there.

Thanks for the list of die makers...once I get the press I doubt I'm going to be real keen on wiating six months to a year to get the dies. Anyone have experience with some of the other die makers? Are they prett comparable to one another?

[Bart B.]

Valornor, check out accurateshooter.com website and see whose bullet making dies are popular with the stool shooters.

[Valornor]

Whoa, how come I've never seen that site before. Thanks for the lead, I'll be spending days reading it now:-p

[old roper]

Valornor, unless some has dies in stock you may have a wait. There lot of bullet maker who make their own dies you might want to call Berger he owns j-4 and he could have a lead on some good used dies or someone who's not listed.

[FrankenMauser]

I've never used them, myself; but I've always heard that nothing at the 'hobby' level compares to the quality of Detsch dies.

[old roper]

A company like Matrix that buys J-4 jackets direct he'll buy cheaper or some of the custom bullet guy's that's been doing business with Berger for years vs the start of customer.

Here's Bruno pricing on jackets

http://www.brunoshooters.com/Merchan...tegory_Code=20

Lead cores are running $4 per lb appr plus shipping.

When I was shooting BR Rorschach dies were being used

here good article on his dies from the 70's

http://www.sebagosales.com/swagedbul...ng_article.pdf