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March 15, 2015, 01:22 AM | #51 | |
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I worked on this a bit today at the range and did see some improvement. In my case I think the accuracy issue with the concealed gun will improve with time and practice. Whether or not I'll ever be able to achieve the same accuracy with the concealed as with a gun which fits me better who knows? As long as I get to the point of being able to shoot a reasonable 5-shot group from 5-10 yards and learn to handle it well I'll probably stay with it. It conceals well and I've had no performance issues. |
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March 15, 2015, 02:52 PM | #52 | ||
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Because I would be under pressures of time criticality and fear, and the target would almost certainly be moving in a real-world scenario, I want to hold myself to more strenuous precision goals at the range where pressures are absent. Quote:
Last edited by Limnophile; March 15, 2015 at 03:01 PM. |
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March 17, 2015, 10:00 AM | #53 |
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Always practice accuracy. Speed is a natural byproduct.
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March 17, 2015, 11:23 AM | #54 | |
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Posted by Microgunner:
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March 17, 2015, 11:33 AM | #55 |
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Speed isn't a natural byproduct; it has to be deliberately fostered.
Sometimes, the only way to get faster is to shoot faster. Just be sure that you're using the trigger correctly before you begin pouring on the speed, and always spend at least a few rounds (or a few dry fire iterations) reinforcing good trigger control after you've worked on speed. pax |
March 17, 2015, 01:15 PM | #56 | |
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Trigger control is learned by starting with slow fire (and safe dry practice) consciously and consistently achieving a good surprise break. Diligent conscious practice can lead to compressing the surprise break until the trigger let-off is both smooth and quick. But pushing faster than you're able to properly manage the trigger can bring about excessive trigger jerk.
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March 17, 2015, 03:55 PM | #57 | |
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When I'm comfortable with how I'm shooting the gun and accuracy improves I'm going to shift to drawing and firing with some sense of urgency - I'm sure that also will require a good bit of practice. Great information from all who have contributed on this thread! |
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March 17, 2015, 04:03 PM | #58 | |
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Add this: As with the trigger, so with the drawstroke! Start building that skill slowly, with a strong emphasis on doing it right. It should be smooth, fluid, efficient, and safe. Do it that way, in slow motion, a whole bunch of times before you ever try to speed up. Also? When you first start working your draw, don't load the gun. You don't need to put those pieces together until you've gotten them under control separately. pax |
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March 17, 2015, 04:12 PM | #59 | |
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One thing I have been impressed with as someone who is new to pistol shooting - most everyone is very safety conscious! Always error on the side of caution and assume the gun is loaded until you have personally verified it isn't!! |
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March 17, 2015, 04:57 PM | #60 | |
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Practicing marksmanship (trigger control, sight picture etc) is fostering speed. IMO.
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March 17, 2015, 07:00 PM | #61 |
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Microgunner,
We may be talking past each other. Not a true disagreement so much as needing a little more context to be sure we're on the same page. Let's see... Having worked as both a lead instructor and as a coach with hundreds of beginning, intermediate, and experienced shooters over the past 12 years, I'm reasonably familiar with what works and what doesn't in teaching people to shoot better. Pretty much everything I've said comes through the context of teaching people to shoot within a formal class setting, and with how people practice after they leave the formal class setting. Within that context, I'd say you're absolutely right that it's important for the beginner to focus completely on building a good technique. They need to learn the basic skill set before adding any stress, doing everything smoothly and correctly. That repetition builds in some good strong neural connections that will tend to endure when we add more complexity or more difficulty to the task. As you noted, people will naturally move a little more quickly and with significantly more confidence once those neural connections are in place and well-practiced. They won't, however, move anywhere near as fast as they're actually capable of moving. That type of speed only comes with deliberate effort. The sequence is:
So first work on accuracy and basic gun manipulations. Then push for speed. You do have to push for speed, because once they've learned that they can hit the target accurately, even confident shooters will (almost always) settle themselves into a comfortable shooting pace that's nowhere near as fast as they're really capable of going. They do that because they don't want to give up the satisfaction of hitting where they aim. That's also how you get the shooter who's proud and happy to put a dozen shots somewhere on paper as long as he shoots them all super-fast: he can't shoot more accurately even if he slows down, so he might as well pride himself on his speed. By the way, as far as I can tell, many if not most untaught and self taught shooters settle for step 1 plus practice. Once they can make the gun go bang and sometimes hit paper, they're happy enough to just keep doing that. When we get those guys into a class, they're often shocked at how much better they can be and how much wider the field is of things they could learn. pax |
March 17, 2015, 07:12 PM | #62 |
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But even those shooters who don't consciously push themselves toward higher fire rates will still shoot faster as they become more comfortable and repeat the drill enough times.
Agreed, I believe we're on the same page, just looking at it from slightly different angles.
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March 17, 2015, 07:42 PM | #63 | |||||
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Here's an excellent post by pax on the subject in a thread focusing on increasing speed while retaining accuracy: And some more good advice from pax in the same thread: Let's look at how humans learn a physical skill.
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March 17, 2015, 09:00 PM | #64 |
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Good stuff. I'll have to try that drill next time I hit the range.
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March 19, 2015, 06:05 PM | #65 | |
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An interesting and informative discussion. As my skills have improved my ability to shoot accurately faster has also improved. As usual I find Pax to be the clear voice that only comes from much experience teaching. This statement absolutely describes my experience regarding shooting fast:
Quote:
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