Type 38 question

Fullclip610 · October 16, 2014, 09:17 AM

Hey all. You guys probably know this answer. Just inherited my grandfathers arisaka type 38 carbine. It has the bolt but is missing the safety knob, firing pin, and firing pin spring. Going to buy these parts even if I have to buy a complete bolt. Will the regular type 38 bolt fit in the carbine?
I'm guessing yes. Anyone?

**44 AMP** · October 16, 2014, 10:33 AM

The Gun Parts Corp (formerly Numrich Arms), is the best place to start looking for the parts you need.

moving this to Curio & Relic forum.

Mk VII · October 16, 2014, 01:52 PM

I will come out on a limb and say, yes, no reason why the rifle bolt should not fit with the usual caveats about headspace. Better to fit the parts to the existing bolt. It was easy to remove these parts from the Arisaka bolt - just a quick twist.

tahunua001 · October 16, 2014, 04:16 PM

if I recall correctly, many of the type 38 carbines are actually converted 38 longs so yes, bolts from 38 longs will work in carbines. the 38s and 44s use the same bolts.

Fullclip610 · October 16, 2014, 05:09 PM

Thanks for the replies. I checked numrich. They were out of the firing pin. eBay has those parts occasionally so I've been checking there. Looks like it will run me about $80-100 for all 3 parts. About headspace, on other sites they say the headspace should be fine, something about loose tolerances. I wouldn't even know how to go about checking that. Honestly I probably won't fire it more than 1 outing, if that. Ammo seems kind of a pita. I just think its a lot cooler to have a working piece of history rather than something that doesn't work.

James K · October 16, 2014, 07:15 PM

Sorry, but the "loose tolerances in Jap rifles" is nonsense. The Type 38 was always made in peacetime and is as well made as any Mauser or Springfield. Tolerances were not "loose" and correct headspace is necessary. I agree that replacing the bolt parts would be better than replacing the bolt since that way headspace will not be a problem.

Jim

Gunplummer · October 16, 2014, 07:16 PM

Check the number on the bolt. It probably does not match anyway. You may need a little fine fitting with new parts. There were quite a few different style safes and F/pins. T-38's were more of a "Hand fit" deal than the T-99. You should be fine with new parts.

James K · October 16, 2014, 07:35 PM

"There were quite a few different style safes and F/pins."

Maybe I am confused but I don't recall any different styles of safety or any significant variations in firing pins. I wonder if there are pics of the different safeties.

Jim

tangolima · October 16, 2014, 08:35 PM

I own a 38 and I like it a lot. A few things that may help you along.

1. If you want to shoot the gun, you'd better hand load, or it will cost you. If you hand load, headspace is non issue. You can always size the brass to fit your chamber.

2. I got all my parts from eBay. Just wait and you will see reasonable prices. there are other sources for parts. PM me if you want. I can't remember at the moment.

3. The barrel has polygonal rifling and they tend to have over sized bore. Mine needs 0.268" carcano bullets, or it will key hole.

4. They tend to shoot high, so aim low, unless you want to raise the front sight like I did.

5. When done right, the rifle can be wicked accurate with very decent recoil.
-TL

Fullclip610 · October 16, 2014, 09:35 PM

I'm pretty sure they should match unless the japs themselves had unmatched numbers. did they do that? I'm not saying he got a kill and picked it up right from the battlefield but I know he brought it home in parts from the South Pacific. I dont have a clue why he didnt include firing pin, etc but maybe he took them out so my mischievous dad didn't mess with it. It's been hanging in my grandmothers basement for 40+ years. Still Has the dust cover, emporer's symbol. I think they have 2 dif types of safeties I saw on part websites. Large tang and something else. Thanks for the replies, will keep a lookout on eBay. Idk how they get all this random parts for these to sell. Shouldnt they still be on the rifle still.

tahunua001 · October 16, 2014, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Maybe I am confused but I don't recall any different styles of safety or any significant variations in firing pins. I wonder if there are pics of the different safeties.

I know a few SLIGHT variations with the safety knobs. some have a small indent cut into them and others have a small prong but functionally they are identical and I know of no difference in the firing pins as well... I would like to see some documentation. I have actually swapped the bolts on my T44 and T99 of curiosity. I would never try to fire them but they did fit either rifle almost as well as the one it was spaced to.

Gunplummer · October 17, 2014, 12:58 PM

Small parts came from small manufacturers all over Japan and other countries. I have seen/owned at least 3 different styles of safeties for the 6.5. Some do not interchange too well without a little fitting. This may have more to do with the machining on the back of the bolt than the safety knob. There are at least two different style F/pins too. The F/pin and safety knobs will interchange between the 6.5 and the 7.7, but * NOT * the bolts, if that helps you find the stuff easier. Might be a good idea for you to make sure you have the correct bolt in it. I bought more than one at a flea market with the wrong bolt in it. The location of the locking lugs and blow hole are different between the two. There. Documented. Not rumor, I owned them. I also made quite a few in my day ( F/pins, safeties, and bolts) * The post about loose tolerance 6.5's : I worked on/owned quite a few Type "I" 6.5's (Made during the war). The chamber tolerance on some of these guns was so tight that I had to force the bolt on some of the original Japanese ammo. Tolerance on military weapons varied from every country. That is why you will see a "First quality" stamp on some 6.5's and not others. Overall, the Arisaka was a well made and designed rifle. If you have trouble with bullets keyholing, try a 160 grain bullet. I still hunt with one I cut to 6.5x55. It keyholed at 50 yards until I figured out that the real early 6.5's had a different twist rate.

Gunplummer · October 17, 2014, 01:05 PM

Small parts came from small manufacturers all over Japan and other countries. I have seen/owned at least 3 different styles of safeties for the 6.5. Some do not interchange too well without a little fitting. This may have more to do with the machining on the back of the bolt than the safety knob. There are at least two different style F/pins too. The F/pin and safety knobs will interchange between the 6.5 and the 7.7, but * NOT * the bolts, if that helps you find the stuff easier. Might be a good idea for you to make sure you have the correct bolt in it. I bought more than one at a flea market with the wrong bolt in it. The location of the locking lugs and blow hole are different between the two. There. Documented. Not rumor, I owned them. I also made quite a few in my day ( F/pins, safeties, and bolts) * The post about loose tolerance 6.5's : I worked on/owned quite a few Type "I" 6.5's (Made during the war). The chamber tolerance on some of these guns was so tight that I had to force the bolt on some of the original Japanese ammo. Tolerance on military weapons varied from every country. That is why you will see a "First quality" stamp on some 6.5's and not others. Overall, the Arisaka was a well made and designed rifle. If you have trouble with bullets keyholing, try a 160 grain bullet. I still hunt with one I cut to 6.5x55. It keyholed at 50 yards until I figured out that the real early 6.5's had a different twist rate. Yes, at times the Japanese used mismatched numbers. Sometimes the guns were restamped sometimes not. Look under the bolt handle where it drops down on the receiver and there should be a partial serial number. The F/pins and safeties were usually marked too, but not always.

F. Guffey · October 17, 2014, 01:08 PM

Pictures are so unappreciated I do not bother, I have 4 bolts that have safeties with two of them being similar.

F. Guffey

James K · October 17, 2014, 08:00 PM

Somehow I would not be surprised that Type I's are different from Type 38's since the Type I was made in Italy and uses a slightly modified Carcano action that has nothing at all in common with the Arisaka design.

Jim

Gunplummer · October 18, 2014, 05:15 PM

Firing the same round is kind of a common.

James K · October 18, 2014, 06:16 PM

They also have stocks, barrels, bolts, and triggers, so I was in error in saying they have nothing in common.

Jim

October 16, 2014, 09:17 AM	#1
Fullclip610 Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2014 Posts: 119	Type 38 question Hey all. You guys probably know this answer. Just inherited my grandfathers arisaka type 38 carbine. It has the bolt but is missing the safety knob, firing pin, and firing pin spring. Going to buy these parts even if I have to buy a complete bolt. Will the regular type 38 bolt fit in the carbine? I'm guessing yes. Anyone?

October 16, 2014, 10:33 AM	#2
44 AMP Staff Join Date: March 11, 2006 Location: Upper US Posts: 28,833	The Gun Parts Corp (formerly Numrich Arms), is the best place to start looking for the parts you need. moving this to Curio & Relic forum. __________________ All else being equal (and it almost never is) bigger bullets tend to work better.

October 16, 2014, 04:16 PM	#4
tahunua001 Senior Member Join Date: July 21, 2011 Location: Idaho Posts: 7,839	if I recall correctly, many of the type 38 carbines are actually converted 38 longs so yes, bolts from 38 longs will work in carbines. the 38s and 44s use the same bolts. __________________ ignore my complete lack of capitalization. I still have no problem correcting your grammar. I never said half the stuff people said I did-Albert Einstein You can't believe everything you read on the internet-Benjamin Franklin

October 16, 2014, 01:52 PM	#3
Mk VII Senior Member Join Date: November 23, 2000 Location: England Posts: 455	I will come out on a limb and say, yes, no reason why the rifle bolt should not fit with the usual caveats about headspace. Better to fit the parts to the existing bolt. It was easy to remove these parts from the Arisaka bolt - just a quick twist.

October 16, 2014, 05:09 PM	#5
Fullclip610 Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2014 Posts: 119	Thanks for the replies. I checked numrich. They were out of the firing pin. eBay has those parts occasionally so I've been checking there. Looks like it will run me about $80-100 for all 3 parts. About headspace, on other sites they say the headspace should be fine, something about loose tolerances. I wouldn't even know how to go about checking that. Honestly I probably won't fire it more than 1 outing, if that. Ammo seems kind of a pita. I just think its a lot cooler to have a working piece of history rather than something that doesn't work.

October 16, 2014, 07:15 PM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Sorry, but the "loose tolerances in Jap rifles" is nonsense. The Type 38 was always made in peacetime and is as well made as any Mauser or Springfield. Tolerances were not "loose" and correct headspace is necessary. I agree that replacing the bolt parts would be better than replacing the bolt since that way headspace will not be a problem. Jim

October 16, 2014, 07:16 PM	#7
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Check the number on the bolt. It probably does not match anyway. You may need a little fine fitting with new parts. There were quite a few different style safes and F/pins. T-38's were more of a "Hand fit" deal than the T-99. You should be fine with new parts.

October 16, 2014, 07:35 PM	#8
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	"There were quite a few different style safes and F/pins." Maybe I am confused but I don't recall any different styles of safety or any significant variations in firing pins. I wonder if there are pics of the different safeties. Jim

October 16, 2014, 08:35 PM	#9
tangolima Senior Member Join Date: September 28, 2013 Posts: 3,825	I own a 38 and I like it a lot. A few things that may help you along. 1. If you want to shoot the gun, you'd better hand load, or it will cost you. If you hand load, headspace is non issue. You can always size the brass to fit your chamber. 2. I got all my parts from eBay. Just wait and you will see reasonable prices. there are other sources for parts. PM me if you want. I can't remember at the moment. 3. The barrel has polygonal rifling and they tend to have over sized bore. Mine needs 0.268" carcano bullets, or it will key hole. 4. They tend to shoot high, so aim low, unless you want to raise the front sight like I did. 5. When done right, the rifle can be wicked accurate with very decent recoil. -TL

October 16, 2014, 09:35 PM	#10
Fullclip610 Senior Member Join Date: July 29, 2014 Posts: 119	I'm pretty sure they should match unless the japs themselves had unmatched numbers. did they do that? I'm not saying he got a kill and picked it up right from the battlefield but I know he brought it home in parts from the South Pacific. I dont have a clue why he didnt include firing pin, etc but maybe he took them out so my mischievous dad didn't mess with it. It's been hanging in my grandmothers basement for 40+ years. Still Has the dust cover, emporer's symbol. I think they have 2 dif types of safeties I saw on part websites. Large tang and something else. Thanks for the replies, will keep a lookout on eBay. Idk how they get all this random parts for these to sell. Shouldnt they still be on the rifle still.

October 17, 2014, 12:58 PM	#12
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Small parts came from small manufacturers all over Japan and other countries. I have seen/owned at least 3 different styles of safeties for the 6.5. Some do not interchange too well without a little fitting. This may have more to do with the machining on the back of the bolt than the safety knob. There are at least two different style F/pins too. The F/pin and safety knobs will interchange between the 6.5 and the 7.7, but * NOT * the bolts, if that helps you find the stuff easier. Might be a good idea for you to make sure you have the correct bolt in it. I bought more than one at a flea market with the wrong bolt in it. The location of the locking lugs and blow hole are different between the two. There. Documented. Not rumor, I owned them. I also made quite a few in my day ( F/pins, safeties, and bolts) * The post about loose tolerance 6.5's : I worked on/owned quite a few Type "I" 6.5's (Made during the war). The chamber tolerance on some of these guns was so tight that I had to force the bolt on some of the original Japanese ammo. Tolerance on military weapons varied from every country. That is why you will see a "First quality" stamp on some 6.5's and not others. Overall, the Arisaka was a well made and designed rifle. If you have trouble with bullets keyholing, try a 160 grain bullet. I still hunt with one I cut to 6.5x55. It keyholed at 50 yards until I figured out that the real early 6.5's had a different twist rate.

October 17, 2014, 01:05 PM	#13
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Small parts came from small manufacturers all over Japan and other countries. I have seen/owned at least 3 different styles of safeties for the 6.5. Some do not interchange too well without a little fitting. This may have more to do with the machining on the back of the bolt than the safety knob. There are at least two different style F/pins too. The F/pin and safety knobs will interchange between the 6.5 and the 7.7, but * NOT * the bolts, if that helps you find the stuff easier. Might be a good idea for you to make sure you have the correct bolt in it. I bought more than one at a flea market with the wrong bolt in it. The location of the locking lugs and blow hole are different between the two. There. Documented. Not rumor, I owned them. I also made quite a few in my day ( F/pins, safeties, and bolts) * The post about loose tolerance 6.5's : I worked on/owned quite a few Type "I" 6.5's (Made during the war). The chamber tolerance on some of these guns was so tight that I had to force the bolt on some of the original Japanese ammo. Tolerance on military weapons varied from every country. That is why you will see a "First quality" stamp on some 6.5's and not others. Overall, the Arisaka was a well made and designed rifle. If you have trouble with bullets keyholing, try a 160 grain bullet. I still hunt with one I cut to 6.5x55. It keyholed at 50 yards until I figured out that the real early 6.5's had a different twist rate. Yes, at times the Japanese used mismatched numbers. Sometimes the guns were restamped sometimes not. Look under the bolt handle where it drops down on the receiver and there should be a partial serial number. The F/pins and safeties were usually marked too, but not always.

October 17, 2014, 01:08 PM	#14
F. Guffey Senior Member Join Date: July 18, 2008 Posts: 7,249	Pictures are so unappreciated I do not bother, I have 4 bolts that have safeties with two of them being similar. F. Guffey

October 17, 2014, 08:00 PM	#15
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	Somehow I would not be surprised that Type I's are different from Type 38's since the Type I was made in Italy and uses a slightly modified Carcano action that has nothing at all in common with the Arisaka design. Jim

October 18, 2014, 05:15 PM	#16
Gunplummer Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2010 Location: South East Pa. Posts: 3,364	Firing the same round is kind of a common.

October 18, 2014, 06:16 PM	#17
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	They also have stocks, barrels, bolts, and triggers, so I was in error in saying they have nothing in common. Jim