Issue with 223's

chris in va · July 31, 2011, 09:24 AM

I've reloaded about 1500 223's now after getting my S&W a few months ago. A couple stoppages with the first 1200, but yesterday was a whole different story.

I had been using 55gr surplus bullets but the supplier was out and I got 500 of the 62gr (weighed) FMJ instead. Following the Lyman manual for the 63gr Jacketed SMP bullet it says...

H335 23.7-26.4max

I went with 25gr charge as I've had good results with a 'middle' load 335 before.

My rifle wouldn't go into battery yesterday. Found out a fired primer fell out and got stuck in the chamber face, easily cleared out. I showed a couple other fired rounds to the RO and he noticed the primers were flattened, so I switched over to my leftovers with 4064 and had no issues.

My 'new' reloads are 24gr H335, is that still too hot, despite what the manual says? I also noticed the OAL is listed as 2.26, while mine have to be at 2.24 for reliable loading in my magazines.

Marquezj16 · July 31, 2011, 10:09 AM

My Hornady reloading data does not have a 62 gr data but using 55 gr FMJ it tops off at 23.2 gr and using 68 gr BTHP it max out at 23.8

Check out Hodgdon website.

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

63 GR. SIE SP Hodgdon H335 .224" 2.200" 22.5 2820 41,000 CUP 25.0 3051 50,000 CUP

It tops off at 25 gr. I would reduce 10% and use that as a starting point. Make sure to trim your cases to length as that can also cause problems.

**Unclenick** · July 31, 2011, 11:11 AM

Chris,

You just learned a couple of things:

Never use the middle of the listed load range as the starting load may already be maximum in your gun. I've had that happen twice. Try Richard Lee's method of dividing min to max into five steps to try the load range. Stop going up if you start getting pressure signs, and pull the remaining loads.
Always match the components in the reload data exactly. A different case brand can change pressure. A different primer can change pressure. A different bullet can change pressure even if it's the same weight. If you don't have the same components, take another 5% off the starting charge and work up (unless that reduces the case fill below 70% full under the bullet).

A good rule of thumb for choosing a powder is to take a fired case with the primer still in it and that has not been resized, and weigh it. Then fill it with water and push a bullet in to your normal COL for it. That squirts the extra water out. Remove the bullet, dry off the outside of the case and weigh it again. Subtract the empty case weight you had earlier. The difference is the case water capacity under the bullet. Multiply that result by 0.85 to get 85% water weight capacity. Look through load tables for the powders that produce the highest velocity with that 85% water capacity charge weight. They tend to be good candidate powders for load development with your particular bullet.

hagar · July 31, 2011, 12:51 PM

What kind of primers are you using? If winchester, switch to something else like Remington 7.5, Wolf small rifle magnum or CCI. I had pressure signs with winchesters in my 17 Remington Contender even with very light loads, switched to 7.5 and never had an issue again.

Jim243 · July 31, 2011, 01:12 PM

Hi Chris

Quote:

I got 500 of the 62gr (weighed) FMJ instead

I too bought 500 of the pulled 109SS bullets from Jake. The first thing I did when they came in was to swage the bullets to insure that they all would be .224. This might account for your failure to go to full battery (bullet too wide), it might just be the blown primer. I use a RCBS X-Small Base resizing die for all my 223s. they can find themselves in any one of my 2 ARs one in 223 and one in 5.56.

I use 25 grains of H335 for the 55 grain V-Max at 2.20 OAL, so that load for a 62 grain bullet will be just a tad too hot for the 62 grainers. As an example I use 22.8 grains of IMR 8208 XBR powder for the 60 grain A-max set to 2.200, I know a short OAL for that bullet.

You have to remember that the 62 grain FMJs are steel core bullets and might develop a higher pressure to get them started.

Short answer, go to 24.5 grains of H335.

Jim

July 31, 2011, 09:24 AM	#1
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 13,806	Issue with 223's I've reloaded about 1500 223's now after getting my S&W a few months ago. A couple stoppages with the first 1200, but yesterday was a whole different story. I had been using 55gr surplus bullets but the supplier was out and I got 500 of the 62gr (weighed) FMJ instead. Following the Lyman manual for the 63gr Jacketed SMP bullet it says... H335 23.7-26.4max I went with 25gr charge as I've had good results with a 'middle' load 335 before. My rifle wouldn't go into battery yesterday. Found out a fired primer fell out and got stuck in the chamber face, easily cleared out. I showed a couple other fired rounds to the RO and he noticed the primers were flattened, so I switched over to my leftovers with 4064 and had no issues. My 'new' reloads are 24gr H335, is that still too hot, despite what the manual says? I also noticed the OAL is listed as 2.26, while mine have to be at 2.24 for reliable loading in my magazines.

July 31, 2011, 10:09 AM	#2
Marquezj16 Senior Member Join Date: April 3, 2011 Posts: 2,088	Flat primer = too hot a load My Hornady reloading data does not have a 62 gr data but using 55 gr FMJ it tops off at 23.2 gr and using 68 gr BTHP it max out at 23.8 Check out Hodgdon website. http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp Bullet Weight (Gr.) Manufacturer Powder Bullet Diam. C.O.L. Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure Grs. Vel. (ft/s) Pressure -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 63 GR. SIE SP Hodgdon H335 .224" 2.200" 22.5 2820 41,000 CUP 25.0 3051 50,000 CUP It tops off at 25 gr. I would reduce 10% and use that as a starting point. Make sure to trim your cases to length as that can also cause problems.

July 31, 2011, 11:11 AM	#3
Unclenick Staff Join Date: March 4, 2005 Location: Ohio Posts: 21,061	Chris, You just learned a couple of things: Never use the middle of the listed load range as the starting load may already be maximum in your gun. I've had that happen twice. Try Richard Lee's method of dividing min to max into five steps to try the load range. Stop going up if you start getting pressure signs, and pull the remaining loads. Always match the components in the reload data exactly. A different case brand can change pressure. A different primer can change pressure. A different bullet can change pressure even if it's the same weight. If you don't have the same components, take another 5% off the starting charge and work up (unless that reduces the case fill below 70% full under the bullet). A good rule of thumb for choosing a powder is to take a fired case with the primer still in it and that has not been resized, and weigh it. Then fill it with water and push a bullet in to your normal COL for it. That squirts the extra water out. Remove the bullet, dry off the outside of the case and weigh it again. Subtract the empty case weight you had earlier. The difference is the case water capacity under the bullet. Multiply that result by 0.85 to get 85% water weight capacity. Look through load tables for the powders that produce the highest velocity with that 85% water capacity charge weight. They tend to be good candidate powders for load development with your particular bullet. __________________ Gunsite Orange Hat Family Member CMP Certified GSM Master Instructor NRA Certified Rifle Instructor NRA Benefactor Member and Golden Eagle

July 31, 2011, 12:51 PM	#4
hagar Senior Member Join Date: February 20, 2000 Location: Colombia, SC Posts: 745	What kind of primers are you using? If winchester, switch to something else like Remington 7.5, Wolf small rifle magnum or CCI. I had pressure signs with winchesters in my 17 Remington Contender even with very light loads, switched to 7.5 and never had an issue again. __________________ I don't have time for busy people