New to Shotguns , good starter hd & range shooting gun ?

[IRONPONY]

Hello , I visit Firing Line Forums reguarly & thinking about getting a good starter \ hd shotgun.
I have some experience with rifles & handguns , but not on shotguns.
I am about 5ft. 6 inches , 140 plus pounds & looking for a nice 12 guage for sd & to have to shoot at my local in door range. [ they allow shotguns there ]
My wife is about the same size as I ,but shorter . [ we both would be shooting it ]
I repect the vast experience that you board members have & have used you guys in buying my other handguns & rifles.
Could recommend a good barrell lenght, brand, pump or semi auto ?
I am looking to buy used for now, I have other guns to shoot for now.
Not crazy about a pistol grip, but I do like the short barrell length.

[zippy13]

When I read your thread title, I jumped to the conclusion that by "range shooting" you meant flying targets at a trap and Skeet range. As a clay target shooter, I'm not quite sure what one does at an indoor public range that allows shotguns. I can see going there to verify that a gun is working properly. I'm guessing that one shot will pretty much be all-she-wrote for a typical paper target. One could use an indoor range for testing loads and patterns. But, beyond that, wouldn't a shotgun at an indoor range get old in a hurry? Do they provide shotgun specific exercises? Since I'm not sure what you'll be doing with a shotgun at an indoor range, it's hard to recommend a gun.

My friend, BigJimP, is an experienced shot-gunner as well as an habitué of indoor ranges for his pistol training. Perhaps he has a better idea of what one does with at an indoor range with a shotgun.

[oneounceload]

Zippy - the folks I have witnessed shooting shotguns indoors were using 00buck or slugs for practice.

OP-
If that's all we're talking about, then any of the basic montage - Remington, Mossberg, Browning, etc. in a pump flavor will with an 18" barrel will suffice.

You'll want to go by what fits your wife, as it is easier to shoot a shotgun that is a little short, but it is hard to shoot one that is too long

[IRONPONY]

At my range , there are shotgun shooters.
Most fire their guns reguarly.
My guess is to keep up their shooting skills, stay familar with their gun, or just like shooting etc .....
When my wife & I are there , we are usally firing our pistols or .22 rifles.
I have to chesk with the staff there , maybe there is a a limit on the type of shells being fired.
By looking at some of the targets ,they are not torn up that bad.

[BigJimP]

The indoor ranges near me - allow members to shoot shotguns / but the ammo has to be BB or bigger ( no bird shot..) - so it means close to $1 a shell.

Every indoor range I've been to restricts you to standing and firing in one lane only. There are some ranges - that will conduct "tactical training for Shotguns" - where you can move and fire at multiple targets ...but those are typically $ 300 a day or so for the training.

There is a need for practice with a defensive shotgun / tactical shotgun and putting rounds thru it / and reloading / mounting the gun / double taps, etc and they are all good exercises ....but its really boring if you have to stand in a lane / fire at a paper target ...especially if its $ 1 a shell. Its useful, if you have very little experience with a shotgun ...but really, really boring.

In my view, you would be better off finding a range where you can take a tactical shotgun class rather than just go to your local range. If you can find a range / with or without training - where they will allow you to shoot "clay target loads" or birdshot say for $ 6 for 25 shells .. your cost per shell goes down to $ 0.24 a shell ....its way less recoil ...and you'll enjoy the repetition a lot more.

I have this discussion with a lot of young guys ...tactical vs target shotguns. Tactical shotguns are good "fighting" weapons - but not good for targets ( for lots of reasons). A decent gun where you can have some fun shooting "clay targets" - and also use as a "defensive gun" is more versatile, more fun ..but not a perfect "fighting shotgun". Personally, I think a good versatile pump or semi-auto shotgun - with a 28" barrel is something you can have more fun with - and see if you like shotguns. My taste on pump guns - is the Browning BPS Hunter model, 12ga, 28" barrel with screw in chokes for around $ 525 new ( used $250 - $400 ). A good used semi-auto ( if it has screw in chokes is fine too ) a Beretta 390 or 391 series, a Remington 1100 ..etc. new are around $ 1,000 ...but I see some used guns around $ 600. A new gun that's pretty attractively priced is the Browning silver hunter, 28" barrel for around $ 850.. A semi-auto is probably smarter since both you and your wife will shoot it.

Make sure you shoot very light loads for your wife / recoil is a "macho" thing....but the older you get the more you realize how foolish it is to shoot high recoil loads all day long (and I'm 6'5" and 290 lbs )...and it creates poor fundamentals often...especially in new shooters. Having your wife fire 00 Buckshot in an indoor range with a fixed breech shotgun ( a pump ) is a really bad idea ...unless you just want her to have shotguns...

You should check out a class first / maybe they have loaner guns ...or hang around the range a little ...show some interest in a tactical shotgun and guys will probably let you fire their guns ...if you buy some shells.

Zippy and I both shoot a lot of "clay targets" so our mutual interest in shotguns lies in the clay target games (Skeet, Trap and Sporting Clays). I think that is a great way to really learn about shotguns / and have a great time - and then get into tactical shotguns if you want to as well.

[IRONPONY]

thanks big jim, the info you provided is great & I will surley take into deep consideration.
Guess the gun I pick will be mostly for self defense , because I have a couple of 22 cal. & two 30-30 rifles.
The gun would be shot on occasion just to keep up skill & familarity mostly.

[BigJimP]

No problem ....

I have 2 boys in their 30's ...and some of their buddies / are going thru the same things you are. I'm a clay target guy ...and I like O/U's with 30" barrels, etc ...and none of them, raising kids, etc can afford $3,000 on a good target grade shotgun that will last them 3 generations ...

So we are constantly debating this same issue ...cost, capability, tactical ...and most of them went out and bought Mossberg or Rem 870 pump guns with 18" barrels ....priced good, lots of tactical cool stuff on them ....the gun magazines are full of ads ...sales guys tell them how sexy they are ...

But they put 10 shells thru them ....and they aren't fun to shoot too often.

Now every one of them is looking at getting another barrel for their pump guns ( which are expensive - often $ 150 or more ) / and most of them realized they can't be too sucessful at "clays" with a pump gun / so now they are shopping for used semi-autos or new semi-autos in the $ 500 - $ 850 price range.

One of their wives just came to me last week, thru my son, and asked for my help to pick out a good "clays" gun for her husband ...and she told me, her husband admitted the tactical shotgun buy was stupid and a waste of money..... She feels bad for him / knows he likes shooting Trap and 5 stand with me and my son ....so she's buying him a Browning Silver hunter 12ga semi-auto for his birthday next month. She found one for $ 850 at a local store. Its not a "great gun" ... it has limited adjustability ...which is a really big deal to make a gun "fit" ....but it will work ok / and I know he will have a good time with it ( and probably sell the tactical shotgun ).

Personally, for defense, I rely on my handguns ...a 5", 1911 in .45 acp ....not that I can't get to my safe, if I need to, and grab some of my shotguns or rifles ....but a handgun ( and my weekly training exercizes with it ) ...fits the bill better for me than a tactical shotgun would. I can pull the plug out of a semi-auto shotgun, with a 28" barrel, and load 5 shells in it anyway ....if I really had to ??

[IRONPONY]

Thanks Jim, you are saving me some time & money.
That makes a lot of sense what you are saying.
Since being on this board , I have gotten a nice collection of pistols , .40 cal, 380 cal. , 22 cal , 38 spl. etc ...
PLus a few rifles , I enjoy shooting at the range & have caught the I want another gun to look at & shoot bug.

[Xfire68]

I would just buy a good used shotgun. I traded my Savage 30.06 for a excellent condition Winchester Model 1400 and I just love this gun! No it's not the best looking shotgun (Not bad either) out there but it shoots fantastic!!!! Anything from 00 buck to light target loads for clays it does the trick!

[BigJimP]

You're welcome ....

But there are others on here ---- DaveMc ...Hogdogs ...etc that really like their pump guns / tactical guns too .....

You really have to decide what suits you...

Many of us on here --have way more shotguns ( and handguns and rifles ) than we need ...but to me at least, its more about running accross a great deal ...than it is really having the other gun.

My latest mission - is to dis-assemble all of my guns - down to bare frames( and whining because the occasional spring ends up under my tablesaw and off to "spring heaven" ...) like my Sig 226's, and 239's and doing some spring customization and some "action work" on them / and by years end, I want to tune up a mediocre 1911 ( a Kimber I've had for a long time ) / and refinish 4 Browning O/U's that I'm ready to parse out into the family to the boys --- all Citori's - a couple of XS Skeet models, an XT model and a Lightning model ...replace firing pins, etc / 8 coats of varnish .... just clean and dress them up ....and some good hard sided cases as gifts ... Its fun ..

[zippy13]

I trust my friends, Big Jim and oneounceload will heartily concur: If you enjoy shooting at an indoor range, you're going to go crazy after trying some clays. Before trying a shotgun, my experience had been limited to small bore rifle matches. One round of Skeet, with a borrowed shotgun, and I was hooked on clay targets.

If you can't find a clay target range in the Houston area, then there's something seriously wrong. Texas is hotbed of shot-gunning activities.

[BigJimP]

I will concur ...

and its something that hopefully you can do for 70 or more years ...at least at some level of proficiency ....

[Waterengineer]

Zippster says:

"If you can't find a clay target range in the Houston area, then there's something seriously wrong. Texas is hotbed of shot-gunning activities."

Ah, yep. Seriously wrong.

[oneounceload]

Half of the clay shooters who post on ShotgunWorld are from the Houston area - one of the largest single concentrations of sporting clay shooters in the country

Clay targets (and by extension pigeons and Helice) are some of the most fun you can have with clothes on.................

[Waterengineer]

Well....between Houston and San Antonio where the NSCA range and HQ are.

[Doc TH]

If you test fire a few different types/brands you will find that the recoil is less with a Re.mington 1100 or 1187.

[Dave McC]

Good advice so far, let me add a bit....

Clay shooting is much fun and if one can hit small, fast, distant targets with regularity, closer, larger, slower stuff is easier, even in a crisis. The first time you see a clay explode like the Death Star in the first Star Wars movie will stay with you forever.

I've not seen a range yet where well spoken,polite rookies get offered a boatload of advice and use of a shotgun. Most also have classes for new shooters.

Good fit is paramount. Get a shotgun fitted to your spouse and learn to handle it.

Use light loads, good form and pads.


HTH....