.38/.357 questions

[tsigmon]

I have done a limited amount of rifle reloading and now want to branch out into pistol also. I have a S&W 686 and several hundered .38 spl and .357 mag empties , probably about a 50/50 mix. I have looked on the Hodgdon site and found a load for 158 gr. LSWC for both .38 spl and .357 mag. using Hodgdon Universal powder. For the .38 special they call for 3.5 to 4.5 gr.s of powder and in the .357 mag they call for 4 to 6.2 grains. If I load the same amount of powder say, 4.2 grs, in each type case will they preform the same or is this not a good idea?

[bullspotter]

I would think with more case space in the 357 case, their will be a slight velocity change between the 2 loads. 357 case being somewhat slower.

[Hammerhead]

The shorter case (shorter COL) will give you better velocity and burn cleaner with the same charge.

[shootniron]

I think that you will be disappointed with that charge in a .357 case...it will be kind of anemic.

[BillCA]

You'll get slightly less performance out of the .357 case because of the slightly increased volume inside the case. The difference in performance will result in a change to the bullet's POI at the range.

Someone who has done similar reloading in the past can give you more qualitative results, I'm sure.

[Lost Sheep]

That's what I do.

None of my 357 guns have ever even SEEN a 38 special case (not since the first and only 50 I bought). I load only .357 cases to whatever power level I desire.

The same amount of powder in a smaller case (all other things being equal) will yield higher pressure, so be careful in those 38 Special cases. The loads you contemplate should not carry this risk, but if you load hotter, cases loaded for your 686 should find their way into a 38 special gun (less strength), it could blow up.

On the other hand, some powders do not lend themselves to downloading in large cases (H110 is legendary). Smokeless powders do not explode like black powder does. They burn. They burn rather slowly and dirty if not at high pressure. They also burn rather erratically if the balance of case volume and powder volume is not just right and the threshold pressure to get the bullet to leave the case is not right (bullet inertia, crimp strength and case neck tension need to be just so).

Fast powders permit downloading, but slower powders (which are more adapted to the higher power levels anyway) become erratic and dangerous if downloaded.

I know that, as an experienced rifle handloader, you are aware of these factors, so my little essay is meant more for readers who get onto this thread as beginners. But also, just in case you think the straight-walled pistol cases make the principles less applicable, they don't, really.

The fact that any given powder is most well-behaved in its burning when it is within a limited pressure range explains a lot about accuracy and cleanliness.

Good Luck branching out into handgun loading.

Lost Sheep

[David Bachelder]

I reload for both .38 and .357. In my experience Universal is great in the .38 and not so great in the .357. I use Win 296 in the .357, better sound and all around better performance. I am a Universal fan, I use it a lot.

.38 - 125 gr Flat Nose, WSP Primer, Universal at 5.2 grains.
.357 - 158 gr Flat Nose, WSPM primer and Winchester 296 at 16 grains.

Another that worked well:
.357 158 gr Flat Nose, WSPM primer and 15 Alliant 2400 at 15 grains.

I am shooting these out of a rifle, not a pistol.

[zxcvbob]

I have done a limited amount of rifle reloading and now want to branch out into pistol also. I have a S&W 686 and several hundered .38 spl and .357 mag empties , probably about a 50/50 mix. I have looked on the Hodgdon site and found a load for 158 gr. LSWC for both .38 spl and .357 mag. using Hodgdon Universal powder. For the .38 special they call for 3.5 to 4.5 gr.s of powder and in the .357 mag they call for 4 to 6.2 grains. If I load the same amount of powder say, 4.2 grs, in each type case will they preform the same or is this not a good idea?

They will perform almost the same. The .357's will be weaker. I don't like loading mild loads in magnum brass -- when I grab a magnum cartridge I want to know it's gonna go "BANG!!" when I pull the trigger, not "bang?"

Herco and AA#7 work well in .357 Magnum with 158gr lead bullets.

[TXGunNut]

If you'll treat the .38 spl and .357 mag as two different cartridges you'll have the best luck getting the best performance from each. Sounds silly since a 686 will fire both of them, but it's true. My .38's are rather anemic target loads using very soft swaged lead bullets and miniscule amounts of .231 or BE powder. My .357's are pretty stout loads using jacketed bullets and a bit slower powder like 296 or 2400. I don't load much of anything in between.

[Adamantium]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using that load for both 38 and 357 (if it works for your gun of course). I reload 38/357 and I use Universal as well, though mostly for 9mm and 45. I have done this type of reloading with more than one type of powder and the differences have been completely academic. Point of aim and recoil are the same in both of my 357's. Put them in the same box, shoot them in the same reload, no difference.

If your 158's aren't hard cast I wouldn't venture into the full power 357 loads recommended here.

[Shootest]

I think you will be setting a dangerous precedence if you start in the middle of the load data for any cartridge. You should start at or very close to the recommended start charge and work up checking for pressure signs. A one size fits all approach usually ends up with poor performance in both or all.

[trublu]

I agree with TXGunNut. I load .38 loads in .38 cases and .357 loads in .357 cases. If you are using 2 different types of cases, you'd have to adjust the dies for bullet seating depth anyway and as has been pointed out, the difference in case volume means that the same amount of powder will create different pressures. Better to make 2 different loads.

But it's all just for practice because I use factory .38+P in my carry revolver.

[Doodlebugger45]

Like a lot of folks, I quit playing around with 38 spl cases. I have a few 357 mag revolvers and for a little while I messed around with the .38 cases. It wasn't worth the hassle of sorting the brass though. Plus, if I fired 80-100 38's in the .357, then switched over to real 357's, I would sometimes get that carbon buildup just in front of the throats of the chambers. It would make it hard or even impossible to chamber the longer brass in the same shooting session.

It's just easier to load everything up in the longer brass. If I want truly magnum performance I use a full charge of W-296. If I want mid range performance I use Universal. And if I want wimpy loads for a snubby I have a load developed using W-231. If you eliminate the variable of brass length, your life will be simpler and you will have a more harmonious outcome.

[overkill0084]

If I load the same amount of powder say, 4.2 grs, in each type case will they preform the same or is this not a good idea?

If you notice any difference at all, it will be minor.

The various length/charge issues are well covered. I will just say that now that I have enough brass, my .357s don't see .38 special brass any more. Just the snubbies. That carbon ring issue was just annoying enough to get me to do something about it. YMMV.

[warnerwh]

I certainly agree with the above. Just order .357 brass and you'll be ahead of the game. It's not worth messing with .38 brass, I made the same mistake as those guys. Starline brass is of excellent quality and less expensive than the bigger names.

[zippy13]

For similar light loads with 38 special and 357 mag reloads, my own rule of thumb is to add 0.1-gr of powder to the mag cases. My typical paper punching load is 2.7-gr Bullseye in the 38 and 2.8 in the mag. For full power loads, it's a different story (about 0.5-gr difference) to take advantage of the mags greater potential.

[BigJimP]

If you're within the acceptable published limits of min and max on each caliber for that specific bullet - yes, you can do that.

Universal is a decent powder - and works pretty well in both .38 spl and .357 mag ...although I prefer Hodgdon TiteGroup in both - and TiteGroup is designed for calibers where the volume of powder in the case is small and still give you complete ignition and decent performance. Universal - at the low end of many published recipes tends to be pretty dirty ...in my experience / although I've used it on many calibers from 9mm - .357 mag.

However, if you stay with a lead LSWC bullet ...then there is no overlap of the published recipes for .38 spl and .357 mag ...using faster burning powders like TiteGroup. So I think you've found a recipe for a bullet - using Universal - that is allowed by the published recipes ...but it may not give you satisfactory results.

I load the same bullet for both .38 spl and .357 mag ...and I do load some "soft" rounds in .38 spl for the younger grandkids in my family to shoot - but I like a FMJ bullet like Montana Gold,or a Berry's plated bullet - better than most of the LSWC's - shooting lead bullets is really smokey especially indoors - if its allowed at all - and often its not ... / and LSWC's make cleaning my guns a lot more work.

[Shotgun693]

Are you loading for practice, plinking, hunting or?
If you're just popping cans just use one type of loaded case at a time, like all .38 then all.357.
If you're loading for more serious reasons, like some kinda competition, then pick one over the other and go with that one.
You can load .357 hotter. With lighter loadings, you can get a more efficient burn with .38 cases.

[tsigmon]

Thanks for all of the help. Taking all things into consideration, I think I will stick to strictly .357 brass and work a load from there. I guess I would have figured it out eventualy,but changing dies from .38 to .357 is something I had not even though of. One size of brass will make my life simpler I think. Thanks again ya'll.

[BillCA]

Just a friendly warning... I hope someone covered this and I missed it...

Do NOT try to load powder-puff target loads (like those for the 148-grain wadcutter) into .357 cases. Those super-light loads mixed with a fast burning powders like Titegroup, Bullseye, W231, etc. are a recipe for disaster. Since the powder fills so little volume, it can ignite all at once (especially if magnum primers are used) causing a pressure spike. This is especially true if the gun is holstered (or pointed down) and the powder falls to the back of the bullet just before the gun is fired. If you want to make lighter loads, use a powder that requires more bulk, like Accurate No. 5 or Alliant Blue Dot.

[rebs]

For similar light loads with 38 special and 357 mag reloads, my own rule of thumb is to add 0.1-gr of powder to the mag cases. My typical paper punching load is 2.7-gr Bullseye in the 38 and 2.8 in the mag. For full power loads, it's a different story (about 0.5-gr difference) to take advantage of the mags greater potential.

are you using small pistol mag primers in the 357 cases ?

[Hammerhead]

5 grains of Universal is the minimum charge I use in 357 with 158 grain lead bullets. At 5 grains you get soft recoil and a clean, consistent burn.

[Hammerhead]

Wait, what?
2011?

[rebs]

I did a search and this thread is what came up sorry