Combat Shotgun sights

gpannicke · March 8, 2005, 08:00 PM

I'm cutting down an M870 barrel to 20" & will be losing the bead. Since the shotgun will be a home defense/combat weapon, I'd like to have something to aim with. Maybe I'll spend over $100 for tritium ghost rings, but not today.

Any thoughts about the ATI heatshield with the integrated ghost rings?
How about those slip-on front sights (barrel band)?

In all reality it doesn't have to be accurate. Home defense at 25 feet down my stairwell requires pointing, not aiming. I just need a reference: sight, bead, etc... Aiming is for a slug gun & a rifled barrel. But I've already got that category covered... to 125 yards!

-G

TwoGuns · March 8, 2005, 08:04 PM

As a general rule, I personally don't buy anything ATI makes. The lack of quality I've seen in all of their products is a good indicator that they just don't care about quality.

Jeff Loveless · March 8, 2005, 11:22 PM

In all reality it doesn't have to be accurate. Home defense at 25 feet down my stairwell requires pointing, not aiming.

Your buckshot pattern will probably be the size of a sheet of typing paper at that range. You CAN miss with a shotgun. Your bead could be soldered back in place although just aiming down the barrel would probably suffice.

gpannicke · March 9, 2005, 12:27 AM

"You CAN miss with a shotgun."

I and a few deer I have shot *AT* over the years are well aware of that fact

In the event that I need a longer range shot, I'd like to have something on there to let me know where to aim. The bead is OK, but I'm not in the mood to drill & tap or solder the barrel. Plus it's only good out to 30 yards max. Unfortunately there's no rib to mount on either. So the ATI heatshield looked like one option, but I'm worried about the shield expanding/contracting or even shifting a little. This would knock my sights off. There are also sights with barrel bands that seem to be more solid, but I don't know anything about them.

The other thing I need to consider is that my plans absolutely include putting a COPstock on it. In the folded position, the wire stock will interfere with sightmounts, sidesaddles, etc...

-G

Coop de Ville · March 9, 2005, 08:21 AM

I just had my smith put wilson gr's on my 870 police. Haven't shot it yetb but got them so I could aim with slugs.

Hans Vang does a great job, too. I'm thinking about sending mine to him to do the cone and possible porting..

Best -Coop

Nnobby45 · March 13, 2005, 10:04 PM

Just came back from the range after patterning my 870 with Fed. Tactical 00 BK. Shotgun is cyl bored. Suggest you reconsider "just pointing". At ten yds 9 #00 bk patterned 7 in. at it's widest point and 5 in. at the smallest. At 15 yds the pattern measured a fairly uniform 8 inches. That makes the shotgun a fairly precision weapon at close range, in my book. Translation: Get the sights on the chest just like you would a pistol. Extreme CQ justifies point shooting with any firearm.

At 25 yds the pattern had opened to 13 in, and at 25yds to almost 20 inches, including the two "flyers". 25yds is stretching things with my gun, though 5 to 6 hits in the "zone" isn't bad. At close range you need to be precise to avoid missing, and at extended range (25 yds) you need to be precise enough to center the patter to get a reasonable number of hits COM. It was too windy to zero my shotgun at 50 yds with slugs. I settled for 25yds with impact slightly high.

Cylinder bore is ideal for home defense, but a choked system like the Vang also appeals to me to tighten up that buckshot out at 25 to 30 yds. to make the shotgun a little more versatile, although slugs do a pretty good job of that.

The sights are from Sage International. The front sight is a sleeve placed over the barrel. The rear is a ghost ring with a rugged mount that protects the sight on the sides and from dropping the gun on the sights. The system has transformed my nice looking 870 into an ugly beast--cant stand the look of those sights. They're also about as tough and rugged as they come, although the tritium on the front is pretty dim after 10 years. The front sight arrangement can't really be used alone, since it's too high. You need the rear ghost ring set up. Check out Brownells for a good sight system.

BillCA · March 13, 2005, 10:52 PM

I have added a fiber-optic front sight to my Winchester 1300 that just snaps in place behind the front sight. It does have a notch cut in the plastic so that it snugs up behind the bead so I don't know if it'll stay put w/o a bead.

I've seen these all over and can't remember who puts them out. You get the front sight mount and 3 colors of inserts. I used the lime-green one since I doubt any B&E type in my home will be wearing fluorescent green clothing! Works pretty well in low-light conditions.

gordo b. · March 13, 2005, 11:31 PM

If you can afford it when you cut down a non vent rib barrel : the BEST bar none system I have found is the MMC rear sight and their banded Tritium front. Better than Trac lok, Wilson, AO you name it!
slugs are good for heads up to 50 yards- you NEED rifle sights for this! I agree Buckshot is played by 25yards and the Vang system does cutdown on fliers and gives nice 10-12" usable patterns at 25 yards with the right load. A dayglow or bead works with slugs to 15 yards and buck to it's limits (25-30 yards).

Easy Money · March 16, 2005, 06:04 PM

Give MMC sights a try they make some of the best. I've installed a bunch of them and they work great. Not cheap be they are good. Easy

Coop de Ville · March 19, 2005, 09:53 AM

Just picked up my 870P from my smith this morning. He removed the rifle sights and added the Wilson trakloks. I hope to test it this weekend... they look very nice.

I know it's not a rifle, but I like the idea of being able to aim it with slugs. It's got a 20" IC bore.

Am thinking about having Vang port and cone it... just need the funds

The mmc's look real nice, too. Was thinking about getting those first, but $$$$$$.

I liked the fact that with the mmc front sight you can rotate it if your windage is off. Leaving your rear sight mechanically 0'd.

Edit... I think I meant the LPA sights were banded....

Best -Coop

Bwannabe · March 20, 2005, 08:24 PM

The heat-sheild is a very bad idea. It's just one more thing to go wrong. Knock it sideways hard enough and you could impede an action bar. Most come with nice sharp edges, not a good thing to have on a gun you will be racking vigorously. Taking them on and off will mar the finish of your barrel. The clamp will add a pressure point to the barrel. Unless they are on an original 1897 trench gun, they look cheesy. All of these drawbacks to add something that serves no purpose whatsoever. :barf:

EricO · March 28, 2005, 11:55 AM

The Sage Int. ghostring sights look like this

The front (closeup) along with the porting I had done by a local smith. The porting has worked very well.

If I do it again, I'll go with either the MMC rear or current LPA rear and a single blade brazed on for the front sight. The Sage's aren't bad though, they are durable, after I had a loose rear aperture replaced by the manufacturer.
EricO

March 8, 2005, 08:00 PM	#1
gpannicke Junior Member Join Date: January 23, 2005 Posts: 8	Combat Shotgun sights I'm cutting down an M870 barrel to 20" & will be losing the bead. Since the shotgun will be a home defense/combat weapon, I'd like to have something to aim with. Maybe I'll spend over $100 for tritium ghost rings, but not today. Any thoughts about the ATI heatshield with the integrated ghost rings? How about those slip-on front sights (barrel band)? In all reality it doesn't have to be accurate. Home defense at 25 feet down my stairwell requires pointing, not aiming. I just need a reference: sight, bead, etc... Aiming is for a slug gun & a rifled barrel. But I've already got that category covered... to 125 yards! -G

March 8, 2005, 08:04 PM	#2
TwoGuns Senior Member Join Date: February 4, 2000 Location: Sierra Madre, CA Posts: 173	As a general rule, I personally don't buy anything ATI makes. The lack of quality I've seen in all of their products is a good indicator that they just don't care about quality. __________________ I'll need guns.......lots of guns.

March 9, 2005, 08:21 AM	#5
Coop de Ville Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2000 Posts: 436	I just had my smith put wilson gr's on my 870 police. Haven't shot it yetb but got them so I could aim with slugs. Hans Vang does a great job, too. I'm thinking about sending mine to him to do the cone and possible porting.. Best -Coop __________________ "If chance be the father of all flesh, disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear a 'state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, troops on rampage, whites go looting, bomb blasts school,' it is but the sound of man , worshipping his maker." - S. Turner

March 13, 2005, 10:04 PM	#6
Nnobby45 Senior Member Join Date: November 20, 2004 Posts: 3,150	Shotgun precision Just came back from the range after patterning my 870 with Fed. Tactical 00 BK. Shotgun is cyl bored. Suggest you reconsider "just pointing". At ten yds 9 #00 bk patterned 7 in. at it's widest point and 5 in. at the smallest. At 15 yds the pattern measured a fairly uniform 8 inches. That makes the shotgun a fairly precision weapon at close range, in my book. Translation: Get the sights on the chest just like you would a pistol. Extreme CQ justifies point shooting with any firearm. At 25 yds the pattern had opened to 13 in, and at 25yds to almost 20 inches, including the two "flyers". 25yds is stretching things with my gun, though 5 to 6 hits in the "zone" isn't bad. At close range you need to be precise to avoid missing, and at extended range (25 yds) you need to be precise enough to center the patter to get a reasonable number of hits COM. It was too windy to zero my shotgun at 50 yds with slugs. I settled for 25yds with impact slightly high. Cylinder bore is ideal for home defense, but a choked system like the Vang also appeals to me to tighten up that buckshot out at 25 to 30 yds. to make the shotgun a little more versatile, although slugs do a pretty good job of that. The sights are from Sage International. The front sight is a sleeve placed over the barrel. The rear is a ghost ring with a rugged mount that protects the sight on the sides and from dropping the gun on the sights. The system has transformed my nice looking 870 into an ugly beast--cant stand the look of those sights. They're also about as tough and rugged as they come, although the tritium on the front is pretty dim after 10 years. The front sight arrangement can't really be used alone, since it's too high. You need the rear ghost ring set up. Check out Brownells for a good sight system. Last edited by Nnobby45; March 13, 2005 at 11:02 PM.

March 13, 2005, 10:52 PM	#7
BillCA Senior Member Join Date: November 28, 2004 Location: Silicon Valley, Ca Posts: 7,117	Go fiber optic I have added a fiber-optic front sight to my Winchester 1300 that just snaps in place behind the front sight. It does have a notch cut in the plastic so that it snugs up behind the bead so I don't know if it'll stay put w/o a bead. I've seen these all over and can't remember who puts them out. You get the front sight mount and 3 colors of inserts. I used the lime-green one since I doubt any B&E type in my home will be wearing fluorescent green clothing! Works pretty well in low-light conditions. __________________ BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)

March 8, 2005, 11:22 PM	#3
Jeff Loveless Member Join Date: December 29, 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 86	In all reality it doesn't have to be accurate. Home defense at 25 feet down my stairwell requires pointing, not aiming. Your buckshot pattern will probably be the size of a sheet of typing paper at that range. You CAN miss with a shotgun. Your bead could be soldered back in place although just aiming down the barrel would probably suffice.

March 9, 2005, 12:27 AM	#4
gpannicke Junior Member Join Date: January 23, 2005 Posts: 8	"You CAN miss with a shotgun." I and a few deer I have shot AT over the years are well aware of that fact In the event that I need a longer range shot, I'd like to have something on there to let me know where to aim. The bead is OK, but I'm not in the mood to drill & tap or solder the barrel. Plus it's only good out to 30 yards max. Unfortunately there's no rib to mount on either. So the ATI heatshield looked like one option, but I'm worried about the shield expanding/contracting or even shifting a little. This would knock my sights off. There are also sights with barrel bands that seem to be more solid, but I don't know anything about them. The other thing I need to consider is that my plans absolutely include putting a COPstock on it. In the folded position, the wire stock will interfere with sightmounts, sidesaddles, etc... -G

March 13, 2005, 11:31 PM	#8
gordo b. Senior Member Join Date: October 20, 2002 Location: Peoples republik of Calif. Posts: 961	If you can afford it when you cut down a non vent rib barrel : the BEST bar none system I have found is the MMC rear sight and their banded Tritium front. Better than Trac lok, Wilson, AO you name it! slugs are good for heads up to 50 yards- you NEED rifle sights for this! I agree Buckshot is played by 25yards and the Vang system does cutdown on fliers and gives nice 10-12" usable patterns at 25 yards with the right load. A dayglow or bead works with slugs to 15 yards and buck to it's limits (25-30 yards).

March 16, 2005, 06:04 PM	#9
Easy Money Junior Member Join Date: February 14, 2005 Posts: 8	combat sights Give MMC sights a try they make some of the best. I've installed a bunch of them and they work great. Not cheap be they are good. Easy

March 19, 2005, 09:53 AM	#10
Coop de Ville Senior Member Join Date: April 14, 2000 Posts: 436	Just picked up my 870P from my smith this morning. He removed the rifle sights and added the Wilson trakloks. I hope to test it this weekend... they look very nice. I know it's not a rifle, but I like the idea of being able to aim it with slugs. It's got a 20" IC bore. Am thinking about having Vang port and cone it... just need the funds The mmc's look real nice, too. Was thinking about getting those first, but $$$$$$. I liked the fact that with the mmc front sight you can rotate it if your windage is off. Leaving your rear sight mechanically 0'd. Edit... I think I meant the LPA sights were banded.... Best -Coop __________________ "If chance be the father of all flesh, disaster is his rainbow in the sky. And when you hear a 'state of emergencies, sniper kills ten, troops on rampage, whites go looting, bomb blasts school,' it is but the sound of man , worshipping his maker." - S. Turner

March 20, 2005, 08:24 PM	#11
Bwannabe Junior Member Join Date: March 20, 2005 Posts: 5	The heat-sheild is a very bad idea. It's just one more thing to go wrong. Knock it sideways hard enough and you could impede an action bar. Most come with nice sharp edges, not a good thing to have on a gun you will be racking vigorously. Taking them on and off will mar the finish of your barrel. The clamp will add a pressure point to the barrel. Unless they are on an original 1897 trench gun, they look cheesy. All of these drawbacks to add something that serves no purpose whatsoever. :barf:

March 28, 2005, 11:55 AM	#12
EricO Senior Member Join Date: November 14, 1998 Posts: 124	The Sage Int. ghostring sights look like this The front (closeup) along with the porting I had done by a local smith. The porting has worked very well. If I do it again, I'll go with either the MMC rear or current LPA rear and a single blade brazed on for the front sight. The Sage's aren't bad though, they are durable, after I had a loose rear aperture replaced by the manufacturer. EricO