has anyone considered

[gunsavy]

I never said I was afraid of ad or nd or that I didn't carry with a round chambered. Stop taking pieces of comments and running with. I only commented on the thread were someone was being bashed for a personal choice. And never asked anyone's opinion on that particular subject if you looked at the first response he mentioned chambering a round. The previous thread o commented on was locked for what the operator thought was negative content. Although I will say you have all made your point with out calling me or anyone stupid thanks for all the input I can appreciate speedy reply's sorry for the typos Im using my cell phone.

[JohnKSa]

I only commented on the thread were someone was being bashed for a personal choice.

A personal choice is when someone asks you if you want mustard or mayo on your burger.

The choice of whether or not to carry with a round chambered is a decision that should be made based on something more than personal preference.

In some areas you may have the decision made for you by the state law. When that is not the case you should make the decision based on the safety features of your firearm (in the unlikely event that you have a firearm that is not safe to carry with a round chambered) or based on information about typical armed encounters.

Questions you should ask yourself:

Can I expect to have both hands free to chamber a round?
Can I expect to have the time to chamber a round?
Can I reliably chamber a round one-handed if the need arises?
Can I reliably chamber a round two-handed if the need arises?

[88KEYS]

Good conversation and many good points, it is true that it makes no difference what the “intent” of the attacker is, the ruling factor in most jurisdictions is “what you believed at the time.” I knew a guy who carried a 1911 all the time and was involved in a shooting. He had some oral surgery and his elderly father was driving him home. Then a road rage incident started, his Dad was driving to slow and this guy lost his cool. My friend told his father to get away from this guy and the guy started chasing them. He was driving a large Tow-Truck. He chased them and this was 20 years ago, everyone did not have a cell phone. They ended up on a dead end street; the guy parked his large vehicle blocking any escape.

This Jerk ran over and started screaming at the elderly driver, making clear threats, telling him to get out of the car. This guy was big and very strong, in late 20s. So my friend said he had a thing the doctor gave him to spit in due to the surgery. He got out holding this dish next to his chin, and told the guy to calm down and leave his father alone. This friend of mine wanted no trouble; he is the last person that would go looking for a fight. The guy then said “I’m coming over and going to beat you up, then when I’m done with you your old man is next”!

The guy was advancing and my friend was half his size spitting in a dish after surgery. Clearly not in a position to defend himself and his father. He drew his 1911 and pointed it at this guy, gave a clear warning that he was going to shoot. The idiot told him where he was going to insert the weapon. He pulled the trigger and hit the guy in the chest with a 230 ball round, POW. The guy was turning towards him and the bullet went in at an angle. It exited his side under the shoulder and hit his elbow. The guy then fell and was on the ground still yelling threats. They took off over a lawn and drove away, went to the local police station. He walked in as they were now at the scene, he said he was the guy that was involved in the shooting.

He was arrested and thrown in jail charged with attempted murder, his Dad put up his house for bail. The guy he shot had a long record including assaults, it was determined he was all coked up at the time. The Grand Jury failed to return an indictment, his employer hired him the best lawyer, who was all over the arrest. They did not seek a lower charge, he told me his impression when he went to get his gun, the police were glad he walked. The “victim” lost his elbow and tried to sue him, his lawyer got the case tossed.

I know this is long but sums up what we have been talking about, he blocked them from driving away, clearly if this guy started beating on a man in poor health in his 80s, it would fit deadly force. Then approached my pal who was small and just had his jaw worked on, he could not defend himself. Then a real plus had said the Dad was next.

Justified use of deadly force, he did not even win the civil case, his boss felt so strongly about this paid thousands for the lawyer.

[Art Eatman]

gunsavy, it wouldn't harm you in the slightest to hunt up the nearest IDPA or IPSC club in your area and attend some competition matches. That'll give you a pretty good idea what folks actually do with their handguns, and how competent a person can be. Beats the heck out of UToob.

[Doc TH]

I'm curious that if there are states that permit CC but do not permit carry with a round in the chamber, how do their laws address the CC of a revolver? Carrying without a round in the cylinder chamber under the hammer would simply reduce the capacity but have no effect on function.

[Shane Tuttle]

Originally Posted by gunsavy

I never said I was afraid of ad or nd or that I didn't carry with a round chambered. Stop taking pieces of comments and running with.

With all due respect, gunsavy, but it's fairly difficult to comprehend some of your content and using your cell phone doesn't help matters.

[CRUE CAB]

What is the difference in carrying a semi auto with one round chambered and carrying a revolver with all 5 or 6 chambers loaded?

[Lee Lapin]

Best advice I can offer:

1) Seek training. Start with the basics, like an NRA basic pistol class.

2) Seek more training. Gunfighting is a different skillset than target shooting. Learn how to shoot safely, then learn how to fight with a gun.

3) Seek the counsel of a competent legal advisor to learn the laws on self defense in your jurisdiction. There is no substitute for a good working knowledge of your local laws if you plan to carry a pistol.

Once you begin to accomplish the above, you will be in a position to make up your own mind about what's best for you to do. The more you learn, the more your later decisions will vary from your earlier decisions.

fwiw,

lpl

[jalbuquerque]

Well, you might want to consider whether reacting is a good option. I know probably most will crucify me for saying this, but there are times when letting the guy take your wallet is the best option (the other being your life). I don't know how bad guys carry their guns there, but here they usually have them cocked and have their itchy fingers on the trigger. Also, you must consider the fact that even though it might seem a piece of cake for them they are usually high on adrenaline which increases the possibility they will fire accidentally. They would still go to jail, but that wouldn't really matter to you. So, I would advice you before you consider what to do after you shoot a BG, train well and try to learn when is a good time to react. Also, there are a few rules of thumb you should always follow.
1. Do not pull a gun if you don't intend to use it.
2. Do not pull a gun on someone armed if you're not going to shoot him right away.
3. Always shoot an armed criminal to kill.
4. Never shoot anyone in the back.

What is the difference in carrying a semi auto with one round chambered and carrying a revolver with all 5 or 6 chambers loaded?

If the unloaded chamber is the one right in front of the hammer, it won't accidentally shoot but it will shoot when you pull the trigger. If you carry a pistol with no round in the chamber, making your pistol ready to fire will take just exact amount of time to get you dead.

[CWPinSC]

Chambering a round has been practiced and achieved by many.

Sure, most people can chamber a round - at the range. How many would be 100%, I repeat 100%, SURE of being able to chamber a round while fighting off an attacker, being charged by 3 hoodlums, after being hit on the head by a mugger, and being under such stress that you dookey your pants?

But safety is an issue can not be ignored. If the bullet is chambered to shoot its also chambered to go accidentaly.

True, safety can't be ignored, but your final statement is just plain WRONG.

Modern revolvers have hammer blocks that prevent the round from being fired unless the trigger is pulled. Modern semis have several types of safeties. 1911-types have a thumb safety that must be flicked off before the gun can fire and most also have a grip safety that requires the gun be held in the proper firing grip before it will fire. My Steyrs have a trigger finger safety that must be flicked off before the gun will fire. There is also a trigger safety that requires a finger be on the trigger. My daily carry piece, a Springfield XD9SC, has two safeties. It has a grip safety similar to the 1911-types. It also has a trigger safety as found on many modern semi pistols.

I much prefer the term "negligent discharge" to "accidental discharge". If your modern handgun goes off when you don't want it to, you've done something really stupid in your handling of it.

I'll repeat, racking a slide takes time and a second hand - neither of which you may have in an attack.

May I suggest, as others have, that #1 you refrain from carrying a gun until you resolve this issue in your mind, and #2 you take a couple of handgun safety and handling courses and learn the truths of safely carrying a gun.

[88KEYS]

I know that until faced with a situation you cannot predict what people will do, it is just a fact of life. I won’t get into war stories but have seen in a dangerous fight the weight lifting big cop watch while a small cop is on the ground fighting the out-law biker. I was never a firearms instructor but recall in all the training “mussel memory”. My point is practice, practice, practice, will be the best way to go. If you pratice with you gun use the carry holster and have the weapon set up how you carry it, good idea.

Also like has been said never draw, display a weapon unless you are ready to use it, just can make thinks much worse and cause legal problems.

Just my feeling, good innformation going around. Like to story I posted of my buddy, he was sick, not ready for a problem and was an active shooter and just pulled it and though as he gave a warning, then Pow!

[Buzzcook]

Unless the laws have changed since last I looked, there is no requirement for an empty chamber in Wa.

Driving from home to grannies house, you probably don't need to be in condition zero. Walking in the Tenderloin when the bars are just closing you probably do.

How or if you carry should be determined by an honest assessment of the level of threat.

[Frank Ettin]

Originally Posted by Buzzcook

...How or if you carry should be determined by an honest assessment of the level of threat.

I have to disagree. I'm strong believe in always carrying as a matter of routine (I carry whenever I legally can), and always carrying the same way.

First, I'm not clairvoyant, so even though I can estimate threat level, my assessment is not guaranteed. Second, by always carrying the same way, so in the event of an emergency I don't have to try to figure out what condition of readiness my gun is in (and there's always a round in the chamber).

[Skans]

You'll get varying opinions on this. You really should do what you are most comfortable with. Personally, I'm only comfortable with a chambered round if carrying a da/sa pistol. You've really got to want to fire that first shot.

But, that's just me.

[Don P]

gunsavy, it wouldn't harm you in the slightest to hunt up the nearest IDPA or IPSC club in your area and attend some competition matches. That'll give you a pretty good idea what folks actually do with their handguns, and how competent a person can be. Beats the heck out of UToob.

Well said and I think IDPA would be something to try for our OP. The safety officer may even let him start each stage with a loaded mag and empty chamber so HE can experience the time delay for himself. IMO this should be a EYE OPENING experience

Shooting IDPA has certainly clued me into what its like to have to draw and be on target ASAP with accuracy.

As a side note, how many of those who choose to carry with a empty chamber extensively practice drawing and racking the slide and getting on target? Probably few if any.

[Skans]

As a side note, how many of those who choose to carry with a empty chamber extensively practice drawing and racking the slide and getting on target? Probably few if any.

I keep my home defense gun, Glock 17, without a round chambered. This is because I have a child that could possibly access it. She isn't capable of pulling the slide back....yet. I've had to pull it out and investigate in the middle of the night a number of times. I can rack that slide very fast.. But, this is not the same as concealed carry. I see no reason not to have a round chambered in a da/sa. Still, I consider this a personal choice.

[Don P]

Like I said, give it a try when you hear shooter ready, stand by, BEEP.
Understood with the little one running around. Table top safe that opens with your fingers place in there spot works well with little one running around.

[Skans]

Understood with the little one running around. Table top safe that opens with your fingers place in there spot works well with little one running around.

I paid about $90 for one of those. Batteries run out every two months, so I just keep the Glock inside and the key in the keyhole....thus the reason for not keeping one in the chamber.

[kraigwy]

With all respect to my former colleagues in LE, a cop is almost always the worst person to ask about the law

Retiring after 20 years in LE, I'd have to say:

AINT THAT THE DERN TRUTH

I'll add, the average cop is the last one I'd go to for any shooting advice.

[retiredcoasty]

I would never carry with an empty chamber unless the law forced me to do so.

I recall a time when the station at which I was serving was under a terrorist alert. So the commanding officer wanted us to walk our post with an empty holster. I asked him if he was insane (I later realized he was not insane, just incompetent). I would not – and did not – carry an empty holster. It kind of set the wrong tone if you know what I mean.

[qcpunk]

"believe you are in imminent danger of loss of life or serious bodily injury or actually be in such danger." You can easily have that belief even with no weapon shown. Remember, the human body is, and can also be considered legally, a deadly weapon in of itself.

Great point. And regarding the the drawing or display of a firearm; in Arizona, a recent law has been passed that you may present (not necessarily drawing and aquiring) your firearm in an effort to defuse a possible situation. It was previously considered "Brandishing," and was illegal. But I realize that applies to Arizona, and not necessarily all states.

I also noticed that someone mentioned Hand to Hand and Blade Combat. It's been mentioned a few times around here lately, and I didn't see the phrase stated here, but does everyone remember the 21 foot rule from CCW class? It states that at and within 21 feet, an agressor with a knife or handheld weapon at ready has the advantage by a half second over the defender drawing, aquiring target, and firing. I believe the OP was on solid ground regarding very close range threats.

Oops, the 21 foot rule was mentioned as the Tueller Drill, my bad

[Skans]

21 feet isn't' that far if someone is coming at you. But, even 21 feet is pretty far for me to consider someone an immediate threat if they are stationary. I could see pulling my gun out if someone was 10 feet away brandishing a knife and threatening me.

[scorpion_tyr]

Some people are really influential and will often take advice to do something there not ready to do. Putting people down about not carrying one in the chamber is a bad idea.

If a person is ready to carry a gun, they should already be treating every firearm as if it was loaded, and loaded means one in the chamber. Every firearm should include their own. So there should be no difference in the safety factor.

My opinion is that the weapon is useless without one in the chamber. Anyone who is ready to CC, but not ready to CC with one in the chamber should put their holster in the closet, and only carry at the range until they are comfortable enough to carry with one in the chamber.