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Old November 14, 2009, 06:41 PM   #1
JohnH1963
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Armored Car Guards using better tactics, but armored car robberies in arms race

Many years ago, I used to see armored car guards lazily going into banks with money and just passing the time. Now I see armored car guards coming out of the trucks as if they are now using some kind of tactics.

Guns are now routinely drawn while the guards are outside of the vehicles. The guns are no longer the revolvers of the old days, but modern high capacity 40 and 45 calibers. Shotguns and other types of rifles are oftentimes seen.

I never see them laugh and joke anymore but move quickly in and out without saying too much.

I looked up armored car robberies on google and came up with this link.

http://www.fbi.gov/wanted_by_the_fbi...nted100609.htm

Wow! Some of the criminals are now using AK-47s and other assault rifles to hold up the trucks.

The days of the lazy armored car guard with a revolver are now gone replaced with a more SWAT oriented armored car guy with tactical body armor and drawing guns always when outside of the truck. However, it looks like the robbers are in an arms race as they have now resorted to using assault rifles and who knows what else.

This is the type of scenario that you might be up against one day. An armored car pulls up to a bank and then a van of assault rifle equipped robbers comes up and takes the goods. You might be an officer or a just a citizen that is standing on the street going into the bank.
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Old November 14, 2009, 06:51 PM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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The days of the lazy armored car guard with a revolver are now gone replaced with a more SWAT oriented armored car guy with tactical body armor and drawing guns always when outside of the truck. However, it looks like the robbers are in an arms race as they have now resorted to using assault rifles and who knows what else.

I don't know where that's all happening.... the armored car guys around here pretty much resemble Gomer Pyle. Still walk around like they've got nothing better to do and some of them still carry revolvers. Some of them switched to autos years ago. I've never seen one of them with a gun drawn or a long gun carried.... or doing anything resembling "tactical" in any way.

(This is by no means meant to bash armored car drivers in any way. It is simply an observation of the typical encounter in my area.)
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Old November 14, 2009, 06:57 PM   #3
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When I see an armored truck, one guy usually brings in the cash and then the other guy sits at the corner of the truck with his weapon drawn pointed at the ground.
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Old November 14, 2009, 07:21 PM   #4
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Wow! Some of the criminals are now using AK-47s and other assault rifles to hold up the trucks.
Nothing new here... Michael Platt and William Matix used rifles in armored car heists back in the 80's, and they likely weren't the first to do so. After all, one of the so called rules of gunfighting is: "If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and a friend with a long gun."
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Old November 14, 2009, 07:31 PM   #5
Don P
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I worked at this job for 8 months. We trained and were told to be vigilant when leaving the armored vehicle and entering the business and doing the same in reverse when leaving. We had a truck of three, driver, guard and messenger in Pa get into trouble. They all were too complacent in there duties. The messenger and guard were ex-police officers. This day they chose NOT to wear there vests. They were not paying close enough attention to what was going on around and were attacked. It cost both of them there lives and the driver was wounded when he opened the door to help. Our branch office here in FLA was NOT lax or complacent. We did all we could to stay in condition yellow at all times. Our lives depended on it. As far as weapons go we had 2 guys use revolvers and the rest of us used semi-autos. The state of Florida mandated the caliber. Revolvers are 38spl ( 357mag) ok ammo must be 38spl. Semi-autos 9mm and only 10 rnds allowed and hollow points were a must.
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Old November 14, 2009, 07:32 PM   #6
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I see them outside the bank and and they would have a hand on the gun in the holster and if you got to close they would send a really nasty glare.
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Old November 14, 2009, 08:56 PM   #7
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Guards I see here have their Ruger P95's on safe in a Fobus open-top holster.

Hardly 'cutting edge' tactics and equipment
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Old November 14, 2009, 09:20 PM   #8
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In my little corner of FL, I've not seen any armored car or other security guards that impressed me. I saw one the other day that had a big "flak vest" kind of body armor on. Open in the front I assume for comfort, and it was covering the grip of his revolver. Would have been impossible to draw. I've seen cheap nylon holsters and awful "duty belts" of the Wal Mart variety. The shoot at the range where I work on occasion to qualify. I've seen Hi-Points as duty guns and once a revolver so dirty he had a 20 pund + trigger pull. I've never seen a guard with his gun drawn off of the range.

I've heard of the limitation to LRN .38 spl ammo, but I had never heard of a 10 round limit. I didn't know any JHP was allowed. Never ceases to amaze me the stuff the State thinks of.
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Old November 14, 2009, 10:24 PM   #9
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Due to the 'Obama economy' and 10+ unemployment expect more robberies (Bonnie and Clyde anyone?)

Gold well over 1100 bucks an ounce (but don't worry guys, just like the 1930s the government will move in and confiscate everyone’s gold. They did back then!)

So I'm not shocked the armored car guards are getting better. I don't blame them. I know some of those guys. Do you guys know at least around here the Loomis guards can use 9mm, .40, and .45 but NOT .357 Sig? I dunno why but that's the policy.

I personally think they ought to have an AR handy in those cars.
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Old November 14, 2009, 11:24 PM   #10
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I think it is threat dependant. I used to live in Chicago back in 1977-1980 and often saw armored car guards unholster way back then going in or out of a store with a money bag in one hand and gun in the other.
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Old November 15, 2009, 12:12 AM   #11
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At my last job, the 'armored car guys' weren't the most attentive or astute people around.

Because they had to wait for a manager to make their way to the office, to open the safe... the guards were forced to wait up to 15 minutes. Usually, you would find one wandering the isles of the store, and the other holding the "collection bag" while trying to get a cashier's phone number.

On one occasion, one of our frequent repo drivers suggested robbing the guys with his sidearm, and the guards never seemed to notice.


...Then there were the days the "collection bag" holder would leave his sidearm sitting on the dash, and be in the store unarmed...
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Old November 15, 2009, 01:00 AM   #12
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I did armored work for 8.5 years - hence, the screen name. I saw some incredibly lazy and complacent co-workers, especially with Wells Fargo Armored Service Company. When I worked for Armored Transport, then ATS, we were much better equipped and trained. I wore a concealable vest, no sense advertising, "Shoot me in the head", and none of our rigs were robbed at my branch while I worked there. I was also Ranegnmaster and firearms instructor for a while.
One thing we did, was when the "season" hit, (one week before Thanksgiving to first week in January), we were authorized by da boss to display extra firepower. Gun racks went up in every truck, and we had personally owned AKs, ARs, Mini-14s, you name it, hanging out for the public to see. Lots of eyes popping open at that. Never know if it deterred a robbery, but it never happened. Almost every one of us carried a back up or two, as well. One thing that was a pain was convincing the new kids that the badge, gun and radio did not make them a cop, so don't try to act like one!
I would go through a mall, one hand on my coal bag, one hand on my sidearm, and hope nobody stole my wallet, because I was all out of hands! My wife hated that job, and was soooo happy when I left that line of work, but it really can be a fun job, with the right outfit.
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Old November 15, 2009, 02:31 AM   #13
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I stopped at a gas station the other day and there was an armored truck in the lot. They must have stopped for a break as the y weren't near the building but, when the guard that was inside came out with his coffee he looked around and placed his hand on his sidearm until he was at the truck. I was kinda impressed that he was actually paying attention to what was going on around him.
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Old November 15, 2009, 03:46 AM   #14
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I also worked as an armored car guard for a while ( part time) around the busy holydays. I worked for Sentry Armored out of the Bronx NY. We had 3 man crews on each truck. The company issued 4" model 10, or colt Official Police revolvers. Any guard, messenger, or driver could use their privately owned firearm if they wanted. Either as a duty, or back-up weapon. So needless to say there were quite a few 1911's, and S&W 59's. ( this was in 1976) (dag I'm old)... anyway The company also had in it's arsonal about 50 Rem. 870 shotguns, and a few thompson's... ( semi-auto). The long guns were mandated on some route's but otherwise carried at the truck crew's descretion.

We did have a few robberies, or I should say attempt robberies. Our guys were pretty much on point. We trained, and practiced. We would sometimes make a slow roll by of a location just to look it over before we made our move. If something didnt look right.. we'd call it in to the dispatcher, and then move on to the next stop. When we exited the truck, the messenger would always have his gun in his hand. Some times we'd have a extra guard who would exit with the messenger, both with unholstered guns, or the extra guard having a shotgun... Needless to say we didnt get robbed. A couple of attempts that didnt get far.

Having spent a little time in the business I understand the seemingly lacksadasical[sp] attitude of some armored courriers. The money isnt theirs, it's fully insured, why die for someone else's money that will be replaced anyway. The problem with that attitude is... Most bad guys dont know that.
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Old November 15, 2009, 06:05 AM   #15
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One of our guys was attacked several years ago walking past a FedEx truck. FedEx rig was stolen, and a BG jumped out behind him, unloading a 12 gauge into his back. As messenger went down, the BG grabbed the bag, and hopped back into the truck. As the FedEx truck sped away, SUPREMELY irritated guard, with very sore back under his body armor, emptied his sidearm into the back of the FedEx truck. Money not recovered last time I checked, no leads, but the armor saved the guard's life from an out and out murder attempt. I also believe he was quietly re trained on deadly force use, even though we certainly could understand why he was upset.
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Old November 15, 2009, 02:44 PM   #16
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Gun racks went up in every truck, and we had personally owned AKs, ARs, Mini-14s, you name it, hanging out for the public to see.
Very good. That would not bother me in Texas at all. But here in Texas uniformed guards cannot carry concealed weapons. Even if they have a CHL. If on duty they cannot conceal their weapon. Strange, but true.
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Old November 15, 2009, 03:45 PM   #17
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A couple months ago at the Wal-Mart closest to my house robbers who had planned well got the cash as the armored service made a pickup - and killed one of the guards in cold blood as they did it. It was an inside job as an employee had been in on the planning and told when the pickup was to be made.

The good news - they all got caught.

Waiting for a flight in Mexico I watched an armored car team service an ATM and it was pretty impressive. Four personnel, all with body armor, three with shotguns and pistols and one, the cash carrier, with pistol. The cash carrier serviced that machine while two with shotguns at port arms were on either side of the machine, backs to the wall. The 4th guard was back to the opposite wall, shotgun at port. All three standing guard were constantly scanning left/right.

When it came time to go they left in a column - shotgun guy, shotgun guy, cash carrier, shotgun guy - moving briskly and scanning. At the truck there were three more shotgunners waiting and scanning.
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Old November 15, 2009, 04:54 PM   #18
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Deaf Smith, Wells Fargo said company gun only, 158gr LRN ammo only, got YELLED at when they found 125gr +P HydraShoks in my issued Smith Model 10, Good Lord forbid you even thought about a BUG.
ATS was personal sidearms OK 9mm up to 45, hollowpoint ammo reccomended, or issued SMith 686 with two full boxes of JHP for practice. We used to get all kinds of free ammo every year from that outfit, ordered for us in our primary caliber, personal owned sidearm or not. Backups were authorized for guards who had CCW permits. One wag showed up for work in this getup, and no, I am NOT making any of this up - I was the supervisor on duty that day.
He wore a black leather trenchcoat over his uniform, with a Glock each side in tactical thigh rigs, Glock strong side belt, EAA Witness 9mm weak side belt, Smith Model 10 shoulder holster, Davis 38 derringer back pocket, (Ask me sometime about this guy shooting himself in the butt with that thing...), and I kid you not, an AKM semi auto clone folding stock slung under the other shoulder, 75 round drum and 37mm flare launcher.
He left most of the hardware in the vault that day....

Alienbogey, almost all armored robberies are inside jobs. We lost one to a cold blooded killer years ago, whose getaway car broke down, and the murderer and his accomplice got a lift from California Highway patrol, as the APB hadn't been put out yet. They were also caught some time later.
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Old November 15, 2009, 06:44 PM   #19
Don P
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Do you guys know at least around here the Loomis guards can use 9mm, .40, and .45 but NOT .357 Sig? I dunno why but that's the policy.
Um, and where is around here? Or should we take a wild guess
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Old November 15, 2009, 08:33 PM   #20
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ATS was personal sidearms OK 9mm up to 45, hollowpoint ammo reccomended, or issued SMith 686 with two full boxes of JHP for practice. We used to get all kinds of free ammo every year from that outfit, ordered for us in our primary caliber, personal owned sidearm or not. Backups were authorized for guards who had CCW permits. One wag showed up for work in this getup, and no, I am NOT making any of this up - I was the supervisor on duty that day.
He wore a black leather trenchcoat over his uniform, with a Glock each side in tactical thigh rigs, Glock strong side belt, EAA Witness 9mm weak side belt, Smith Model 10 shoulder holster, Davis 38 derringer back pocket, (Ask me sometime about this guy shooting himself in the butt with that thing...), and I kid you not, an AKM semi auto clone folding stock slung under the other shoulder, 75 round drum and 37mm flare launcher.
WOW! I like the idea of the AKM simi-aut and 75 round drum.

Quote:
almost all armored robberies are inside jobs.
Makes sense, sadly. And another reason to be alert. I've never understood why they pay so little but exect them to guard so much and all of them to be honest.

Quote:
Um, and where is around here? Or should we take a wild guess
Texas, oddly enough.
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Old November 15, 2009, 08:51 PM   #21
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I've yet to see amored car guards carrying anything but revolvers around here (Central Alabama). I've always figured it was a company thing.
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Old November 15, 2009, 08:59 PM   #22
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Do you guys know at least around here the Loomis guards can use 9mm, .40, and .45 but NOT .357 Sig? I dunno why but that's the policy.
I work armed security myself (not armored vehicles though) and that's pretty much are company's policy as well. We can carry 9mm, .40s&w, .45acp or .38spl. Has to be a HK, Glock, Sig, S&W, Ruger, Beretta, Springfield or Taurus (I don't get the Taurus either).
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Old November 15, 2009, 09:19 PM   #23
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Old November 15, 2009, 09:28 PM   #24
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actualy saw a crew out saturday, here in southern louisania, it was loomis i think. had a sticker on the back of the truck said professionals wanted, and a #.

3 got out of the truck, driver stayed in, went into the bank, and 2 came out carrying bags, 1 looking around. they had polymer guns in classic police style belts, i wasnt close enough to tell what kind tho.
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Old November 16, 2009, 01:35 AM   #25
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I stay the he!! away from armored vehicles, afraid they might attract robbers while I'm around! Don't won't to end up as a statistic.
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