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April 16, 2009, 08:42 AM | #1 | |
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Attorney: Shot justified
Lincoln Journal-Star
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The first thing I thought they would charge him on was when he fired into the air twice and then at a wall. Who knows where those first two bullets ended up. The second thing that might have generated a charge was the legal status of the weapon (i.e., stolen, illegally transferred, etc.). Since the story didn't address this, I assume that was all on the up-in-up. Though the lack of charges is a surprise, it gives me hope that common sense will prevail if I were ever forced to use my firearm in self-defense. What do you think?
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April 16, 2009, 08:58 AM | #2 | |
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The actual shooting seems justified though, especially if there is a history of violent abuse. I bet the dad won't doubt him again. |
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April 16, 2009, 08:59 AM | #3 |
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You are responsible for every round that goes downrange, but if those rounds going downrange dont hurt anybody, I guess there isnt anything the police can do.
IMO he got lucky... An initial call to the police instead of two shots in the air would have done him a greater service... But who knows, we werent there
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April 17, 2009, 11:57 AM | #4 |
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Sigh. Look, it was his freakin' FATHER. He didn't want to shoot him. Might not have been the best plan but under the circumstances it's understandable.
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April 17, 2009, 12:42 PM | #5 | ||||
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With only the information given in this article it is an awful shoot. If someone can supply some more information that would justify the county attorney's decision I may recant.
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This article makes no mention of any kind of criminal activity that Holmes was engaged in or what gave Grutel the idea that he or his mother were in a life-threatening situation. Now if there was some kind of history of violence, or he was acting in violation of a court order, or if he was hacking at Grutel's mother with a machete and the article just leaves that part out... maybe I'd say good shoot. As I currently see it, this is an awful shoot. Maybe someone more familiar with Nebraska law can enlighten me. |
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April 17, 2009, 12:47 PM | #6 |
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Sorry to hear someone had to shoot his father. Glad he wasn't charged. As for the warning shots I would hope I wouldn't do the same but don't know until I'm in that situation.
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April 18, 2009, 04:01 PM | #7 | |
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April 18, 2009, 04:08 PM | #8 | |
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April 18, 2009, 04:30 PM | #9 |
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As for the actual shoot, I'd say there must be a lot of detail left out of that story otherwise I can't believe they didn't charge him.
As for the 3 rounds he fired at nothing, he should definitely be charged for those. That is ridiculous.
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April 18, 2009, 04:54 PM | #10 |
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As usual with news reports, it's lacking in enough detail to make an informed decision. At the very least the guy should be charged with the warning shots (discharging a firearm or something similar). After all, in SD, we're taught that if deadly force is not waranted, don't fire the weapon. No shooting to wound, no shooting to scare. If thats all you're doing, then the situation was apparently not that serious.
But, as I said, I'd like to have more factual information as to the actual shooting. I agree in that he probably should have called the cops the first time |
April 18, 2009, 05:36 PM | #11 |
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michell anthony. Why you asked. The guy just shot his dad. I’m sure you’re a real tuff guy and putting you in this situation you wouldn’t hesitate to put a round in your dad and you would follow letter of the law to a teeee. Just like I'm sure you do every day, "not speeding-always using your blinker" or just being a human being with feelings.
The guys probable in a living hell right now |
April 19, 2009, 03:20 AM | #12 | |
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Under the circumstances, he went above and beyond any reasonable attempt to avoid having to shoot his father and only did so when the SOB made it apparent he wasn't going to stop what he was doing even after the warning shots. It sucks for the kid, but I think he done good. Shame on the police for such crappy police work, good on the prosecutor for not filing.
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April 19, 2009, 06:39 AM | #13 |
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Comn-cents, trying to reinterpret your flame as an answer, I will assume you were responding to my question of "Why?" (as in "Why are you glad he was not charged?")
Your reply indicates you are glad he was not charged because of the psychological trauma he is experiencing as a result of the shooting. I am unclear, are you implying that the emotional aftermath is punishment enough for an unjustified shooting? Or did you read something in the article that justifies the shooting and you are glad he does not have to defend himself in court? I also believe it was a poor decision to imply I would shoot my father in the same situation. Did you understand that I believe the shooting was not justified based on the information given? Actually I believe it was tacky to imply I would shoot my father at all. Last edited by Michael Anthony; April 19, 2009 at 06:43 AM. Reason: spelling and grammar... *gasp*! |
April 19, 2009, 06:42 AM | #14 |
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To Stevelyn, I won't say the blind assumption of a history of violence is an unlikely one, but assumptions don't have any place in determining the lawfulness of a shooting.
Also, I can't find the part of the article that indicates that his father was attempting to injure or kill his mother. I read that Grutel claims he entered the room to see his father restraining his mother. His arms were allegedly around her, not striking her or strangling her. Do we know why he was doing this? Further, I cannot find the part in the article that indicates poor police work. If you are referring to the fact that they arrested him at all, remember the police arrived to find an unarmed man shot and some "victims" with no visible injuries indicating Grutel was the shooter. |
April 19, 2009, 06:56 AM | #15 |
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Maybe the father turned on the son
After the son interrupted him bashing the mother?
We will never know, we werent there? Hopefully the falling bullets didnt hurt someone elsewhere not a good idea at all, yes a tree or garden might have been a better idea... dunno, wasnt there..... I am sure the cops would have charged him if there was cause, must have been circumstances for them to not press charges. We can only trust the law has made the right decision on the facts they have at hand Hope the dad is ok, hope the boy is too.... a shame when families fight, it's not right
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April 19, 2009, 08:26 AM | #16 |
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Why is everyone getting into such a tizzy over this?
From the OP, there are a few facts that can be gleaned.
That is all we know. Barring other evidence to the contrary, all the arm-chair quarter-backing of this incident is useless speculation. You weren't there. No one has any other facts than the above. So why is everyone getting into such a tizzy over this? |
April 19, 2009, 08:44 AM | #17 | |
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April 19, 2009, 09:07 AM | #18 | |
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April 19, 2009, 12:11 PM | #19 |
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Fly
Are you causing trouble.... AGAIN?
My favorite colour is BRASS... filled with BLACK with GRAY on top & a little SILVER (or gold) thingy in the back
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April 19, 2009, 01:03 PM | #20 |
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Creature, as a general rule, yes, warning shots are not warranted. I agree. Yet, there are exceptions to this rule.
Apparently, this was a case of an exception. I say apparently, because it met the "smell" test of the D.A. Yet some of you want to focus on a peripheral "fact" instead of all the facts. And remember, we don't know all the facts. Just a very few inferences from the article. |
April 19, 2009, 02:01 PM | #21 |
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never aim at something with a firearm that you don't intend to destroy... firing warning a shot into the air and or wall(especially in an apartment building) is reckless... he should be at least charged with reckless endangerment... we have to start promoting more responsible use with firearms... if he wanted to deter his father from engaging in anymore violent behavior he should have just shot him in leg, intending to steer the situation into a better outcome............
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April 19, 2009, 02:51 PM | #22 |
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You are correct Antipitas. Anyone who can read that story and say the shot was justified can only be basing their judgment on a preconceived notion of how these events typically play out.
Several posters have mentioned Holmes injuring, attempting to kill, or "bashing" Grutel's mother. Several others operate off of the assumption that Holmes had a history of violence. The news story never mentions any of this. Remember, they were arguing when Grutel started shooting. (That is of course, according to the news article's interpretation of the police report's interpretation of Grutel's interpretation of the events.) More recent articles add that Holmes came towards or "charged" Grutel. Anyone familiar with, "It's comin' right for us!" It's always a poignant reference when you hear about the phenomenon of humans "charging" one another. Holmes version of the story might sound like this based on the very same statements Grutel made: "Ok I was arguing with my son's mother. We were screaming and cursing and carrying on and my son started shooting. She and I ran inside. She starts screaming and attacking me, so I grab her. It was half to calm her down and half because I was scared out of my head. My boy comes in and shoots again so I figure... this is it. I let go and say, "Look, son..." *BAM* I'm shot, I go down." With very little facts, it is impossible to say what happened. The above scenario used the same statements from Grutel that you used to create your version of events. Quick, now someone post "Whatever, I'm glad he didn't get charged." |
April 19, 2009, 04:04 PM | #23 |
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I'm glad he didn't get charged!
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April 19, 2009, 05:21 PM | #24 | |
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Your version, Michael. I can certainly change my mind, with new evidence. Care to provide the links to all of that? Still and all, there must be something to what I've said, else the DA would have charged the kid. |
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April 19, 2009, 10:10 PM | #25 | |
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