"Wildcat?"

Ed Dixon · November 14, 2002, 02:34 AM

What exactly is a wildcat cartridge? A rare one? A custom-built one? What?

kurt IA. · November 14, 2002, 07:19 AM

any round that is not a fac. made, or no maker is chambering for.

**Mike Irwin** · November 14, 2002, 11:11 AM

Generally it means a round that is developed by an enthusiast instead of coming from a factory.

All of PO Ackley's improved rounds can be thought of as wildcats because none of the major ammo or gun companies are chambering them.

Sometimes a wildcat becomes popular enough that it becomes a factory chambering.

Two examples are .22-250 and .25-06. Both excellent cartridge, and both of which took decades of shooter use, development, and wildcat popularity before the ammo companies decided to act on them.

Ed Dixon · November 14, 2002, 11:29 AM

So a true "wildcat" (pre-wider acceptance) necessitates a modified barrel or at least action?

**Mike Irwin** · November 14, 2002, 12:10 PM

Generally, yes, because you're taking an existing cartridge and making physical changes to it.

One relatively popular wildcat for many years was the .35-30.

This was an expediency done to salvage worn .25-35, .30-30, and .32 Special barrels.

Normally all that was done was the barrel was reamed out and rerifled.

A wildcat that has always interested me was the .270 Titus, which was the .300 Savage necked down to .270 with a new barrel fitted, or a .250 Savage necked up and the barrel reamed and rerifled.

Other wildcats are QUITE elaborate, involving multiple changes to the case such as case taper, shoulder angle, shoulder location, overall length, and/or neck length.

One of the great things about PO Ackley's line of "improved" wildcats is that they required relatively little change to the existing rifle, normally just a pass with a chambering reamer, and you could still fire standard ammo in the rifle. All that would happen during firing is that the case would expand to the new chamber dimensions.

In one fell swoop you'd both shoot your rifle AND create the proper brass for it.

Then all you had to do was neck size during reloading (although you normally did need a set of modified reloading dies).

As for a modified action, that may or may not be necessary, depending on how radical you get on the changes to the case that you're making.

A .30-30 to .35-30? No action changes needed at all.

A .30-06 to .30-06 Ackley Improved? Normally no changes needed to the action, but in SOME cases a slight modification to the magazine feed lips may be necessary.

Jeeper · November 14, 2002, 01:17 PM

There are a lot of handgun wildcats made for guns like the TC Contender. These originated since the contender could only use rimmed cartridges. Thus, anything with a rim was converted into others. JDJ has a bunch named after him althought all of his were created by someone else that he just renamed after himself. I have 6 or 8 wildct rounds. I really like them because it is just different than the normal.

Unkel Gilbey · November 14, 2002, 02:30 PM

Ackley's improved cartridges filled a niche between true factory cartridges and true Wildcats.

Whereas it is true that you cannot get factory loaded "257 Robt's Ackley Improved" rounds, and you can't buy a rifle commercially chambered for this round, you can still fire factory ammo in one. A small point, yes, but it's important to realize that this is something that you can't do with a true wildcat.

And P.O. Ackley wasn't the only person to improve cartridges - but he's probably the most recognized. This is why there is the additional catagory of 'Improved cartridges' in the designations.

Unkel Gilbey

Gewehr98 · November 14, 2002, 08:16 PM

The .256 Newton was a popular factory cartridge prior to WWII. It then disappeared, only to resurface as the popular wildcat now called the 6.5-06.

Even then, the distinction between wildcat and commercial ammo blurs. Art Alphin, of A-Square rifles, distributes 6.5-06 ammo and brass, and even had the name patented, although he calls it the 6.5-06 A-Square. Not exactly on the shelf of the local Wal-Mart, but it is commercially available:

http://members.aol.com/riflemenky/Cases.html

And, as mentioned above, if the wildcat round's allure is just too much for the commercial ammo companies to pass over, then they'll make the round, in which case it's no longer considered a wildcat. Examples abound, such as the .257 Roberts, 6mm Remington Benchrest, 7-30 Waters, .25-06, .30-378 Weatherby Magnum, .260 Remington, you name it!

**Mike Irwin** · November 14, 2002, 11:39 PM

"True wildcat" is a nebulous phrase, at best.

As I noted in my last message...

"One of the great things about PO Ackley's line of "improved" wildcats is that they required relatively little change to the existing rifle, normally just a pass with a chambering reamer, and you could still fire standard ammo in the rifle. All that would happen during firing is that the case would expand to the new chamber dimensions."

To quote Frank Barnes, author of Cartridges of the World...

"I don't know who coined the term "wildcat"... but it has come to mean any cartridge not produced commercially or available over the counter. In other words, something that must be hand formed and loaded by the shooter himself, or herself as the case may be."

Fireforming certainly qualifies as handforming.

In other words, Ackley's improved efforts are wildcats.

Ben Shepherd · November 16, 2002, 09:51 AM

Any cartridge with JDJ after the caliber designation..........

labgrade · November 17, 2002, 01:52 AM

Actually, the Contenders do take catridges such as the .223 Remingtion, so "rimmed only" 's not strictly accurate.

The big benny of the JDJ line was using a larger diameter catridge to over come the bolt thrust problems associated with skinnies - like the 243 etc. - a bolt thrust to brass diameter ratio. Bigger around's better here.

Seems many of the wildcats make more efficient use of brass capacity over that of comparable cartridge sizes.

**Mike Irwin** · November 18, 2002, 11:11 AM

Contenders also take the .35 Remington very nicely. That's a popular caliber in Pennsylvania for deer hunting with the Contender.

November 14, 2002, 02:34 AM	#1
Ed Dixon Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2000 Location: Ireland Posts: 308	"Wildcat?" What exactly is a wildcat cartridge? A rare one? A custom-built one? What? __________________ I hate quotes. Tell me what you know. - Emerson

November 14, 2002, 11:11 AM	#3
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Generally it means a round that is developed by an enthusiast instead of coming from a factory. All of PO Ackley's improved rounds can be thought of as wildcats because none of the major ammo or gun companies are chambering them. Sometimes a wildcat becomes popular enough that it becomes a factory chambering. Two examples are .22-250 and .25-06. Both excellent cartridge, and both of which took decades of shooter use, development, and wildcat popularity before the ammo companies decided to act on them. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

November 14, 2002, 11:29 AM	#4
Ed Dixon Senior Member Join Date: September 5, 2000 Location: Ireland Posts: 308	So a true "wildcat" (pre-wider acceptance) necessitates a modified barrel or at least action? __________________ I hate quotes. Tell me what you know. - Emerson

November 14, 2002, 12:10 PM	#5
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Generally, yes, because you're taking an existing cartridge and making physical changes to it. One relatively popular wildcat for many years was the .35-30. This was an expediency done to salvage worn .25-35, .30-30, and .32 Special barrels. Normally all that was done was the barrel was reamed out and rerifled. A wildcat that has always interested me was the .270 Titus, which was the .300 Savage necked down to .270 with a new barrel fitted, or a .250 Savage necked up and the barrel reamed and rerifled. Other wildcats are QUITE elaborate, involving multiple changes to the case such as case taper, shoulder angle, shoulder location, overall length, and/or neck length. One of the great things about PO Ackley's line of "improved" wildcats is that they required relatively little change to the existing rifle, normally just a pass with a chambering reamer, and you could still fire standard ammo in the rifle. All that would happen during firing is that the case would expand to the new chamber dimensions. In one fell swoop you'd both shoot your rifle AND create the proper brass for it. Then all you had to do was neck size during reloading (although you normally did need a set of modified reloading dies). As for a modified action, that may or may not be necessary, depending on how radical you get on the changes to the case that you're making. A .30-30 to .35-30? No action changes needed at all. A .30-06 to .30-06 Ackley Improved? Normally no changes needed to the action, but in SOME cases a slight modification to the magazine feed lips may be necessary. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

November 14, 2002, 01:17 PM	#6
Jeeper Senior Member Join Date: November 1, 2001 Location: Gilbert, AZ Posts: 776	There are a lot of handgun wildcats made for guns like the TC Contender. These originated since the contender could only use rimmed cartridges. Thus, anything with a rim was converted into others. JDJ has a bunch named after him althought all of his were created by someone else that he just renamed after himself. I have 6 or 8 wildct rounds. I really like them because it is just different than the normal. __________________ Gun control theory - A woman raped and strangled is morally superior to a woman with a smoking gun and a dead rapist at her feet.

November 14, 2002, 07:19 AM	#2
kurt IA. Senior Member Join Date: February 19, 2001 Location: Iowa Posts: 141	any round that is not a fac. made, or no maker is chambering for.

November 14, 2002, 02:30 PM	#7
Unkel Gilbey Senior Member Join Date: February 26, 1999 Location: Danby, Vermont Posts: 349	One small point of contention... Ackley's improved cartridges filled a niche between true factory cartridges and true Wildcats. Whereas it is true that you cannot get factory loaded "257 Robt's Ackley Improved" rounds, and you can't buy a rifle commercially chambered for this round, you can still fire factory ammo in one. A small point, yes, but it's important to realize that this is something that you can't do with a true wildcat. And P.O. Ackley wasn't the only person to improve cartridges - but he's probably the most recognized. This is why there is the additional catagory of 'Improved cartridges' in the designations. Unkel Gilbey

November 14, 2002, 08:16 PM	#8
Gewehr98 Senior Member Join Date: June 30, 2000 Location: Token Creek, WI Posts: 4,067	Sometimes wildcats develop along parallel lines. The .256 Newton was a popular factory cartridge prior to WWII. It then disappeared, only to resurface as the popular wildcat now called the 6.5-06. Even then, the distinction between wildcat and commercial ammo blurs. Art Alphin, of A-Square rifles, distributes 6.5-06 ammo and brass, and even had the name patented, although he calls it the 6.5-06 A-Square. Not exactly on the shelf of the local Wal-Mart, but it is commercially available: http://members.aol.com/riflemenky/Cases.html And, as mentioned above, if the wildcat round's allure is just too much for the commercial ammo companies to pass over, then they'll make the round, in which case it's no longer considered a wildcat. Examples abound, such as the .257 Roberts, 6mm Remington Benchrest, 7-30 Waters, .25-06, .30-378 Weatherby Magnum, .260 Remington, you name it! __________________ "Bother", said Pooh, as he chambered another round... Neural Misfires

November 14, 2002, 11:39 PM	#9
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	"True wildcat" is a nebulous phrase, at best. As I noted in my last message... "One of the great things about PO Ackley's line of "improved" wildcats is that they required relatively little change to the existing rifle, normally just a pass with a chambering reamer, and you could still fire standard ammo in the rifle. All that would happen during firing is that the case would expand to the new chamber dimensions." To quote Frank Barnes, author of Cartridges of the World... "I don't know who coined the term "wildcat"... but it has come to mean any cartridge not produced commercially or available over the counter. In other words, something that must be hand formed and loaded by the shooter himself, or herself as the case may be." Fireforming certainly qualifies as handforming. In other words, Ackley's improved efforts are wildcats. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

November 16, 2002, 09:51 AM	#10
Ben Shepherd Senior Member Join Date: August 11, 2001 Location: Utah Posts: 1,462	Any cartridge with JDJ after the caliber designation.......... __________________ From my cold dead hands......... NRA certified rifle, pistol and shotgun instructor. Hunter education instructor

November 17, 2002, 01:52 AM	#11
labgrade Member In Memoriam Join Date: November 29, 1999 Location: west of a small town, CO Posts: 4,346	Actually, the Contenders do take catridges such as the .223 Remingtion, so "rimmed only" 's not strictly accurate. The big benny of the JDJ line was using a larger diameter catridge to over come the bolt thrust problems associated with skinnies - like the 243 etc. - a bolt thrust to brass diameter ratio. Bigger around's better here. Seems many of the wildcats make more efficient use of brass capacity over that of comparable cartridge sizes.

November 18, 2002, 11:11 AM	#12
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Contenders also take the .35 Remington very nicely. That's a popular caliber in Pennsylvania for deer hunting with the Contender. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.