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Old February 28, 2007, 10:32 PM   #1
SLOMountaineer
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Reloading data for military bullets...145gr .308 fmj?

I tried searching the forums but could not find what I am looking for. Sorry if this is a repeat question. I recently received 500 bullets that are 145gr military fmj with very slight or no pull marks. I want to find reloading data for it, specifically for BLC(2) powder. Any suggestions?
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Old March 1, 2007, 12:41 AM   #2
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You might try letting us in on what cartridge you are trying to reload (30-06, 7.62X51 NATO, 308 Winchester, 300 Win Mag, etc). There is a lot of data available for FMJ for 308 and 30-06, less for others.
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Old March 1, 2007, 05:47 PM   #3
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I assume you meant a .308 cartridge from your post title? If so, then about 46.2 grains of BL-C(2) will mimic a NATO load in a military case, and 48 grains will be needed in a Winchester case, which has about 8% more powder capacity. As always, work up from a 10% reduction and watch for pressure signs.

Edit May 12, 2020: The above is no longer true. In 2007 the Winchester cases I got weighed around 155 grains. Now they weigh about 163 grains and need about 0.8 grains more powder than Lake City for a match when I last measured some (a few years ago). The capacity differences among .308 Win and 7.62 cases has been coming down recently.
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Old March 1, 2007, 07:13 PM   #4
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Thanks for the info. Yes, .308 is the caliber. It will be used in an M1A.

I came up with approximately 46.5 BLC(2) but I don't like guessing. I suppose I wasn't too far off based on your 46.2.

I will start with about 42.0 and work up from there. Sound about right?

thanks again!
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Old March 1, 2007, 08:14 PM   #5
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From the Hogdon manual #25, for 7.62 NATO ammo using GI brass, max load of BL-C2 is 47.0 grs running at 2719'ps with a 150 gr bullet. The lighter bullets should be well on the safe side using this as max data. Using Winchester brass, the data goes 49.0 gr BL-C2 with a 150 bullet running at 2878'ps. In a 308 Winchester, the load for the 150 bullet is 49.5 grs BL-C2 running at 2835'ps using commercial brass. I would probably consider that 47.0 is pretty much max regardless of the brass. While I like my Armscor all military parts M1a, I'm not game for getting beat up by it. My experience says that the M1a's usually shoot just below max loads anyway. You may also find that you are starting a little low. I have a neat load with 2520 that will work the action and cycle just great but it isn't quite enough to reset the sear- it goes full auto until the clip empties. You could easily be in the same ball park. If you start this low, be aware that you too could have a legal semi auto machine gun. Use caution.
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Old March 1, 2007, 09:13 PM   #6
SLOMountaineer
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Trapper, thanks for the info.

I'll see what happens when I work up the loads, but, just dinking around and putting charges into the brass it sure seems like 46.5 of BLC2 would make for a compressed load, hardly any room for the bullet if I want to keep the COL reasonable. The brass is once-fired military.
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Old May 12, 2020, 06:23 AM   #7
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I have similar question. I'm reloading once fired Winchester .308 brass for my all USGI M14. Plan to use IMR-4895 or IMR-4064 because Lyman Manual says M1A/M14 loaders get best results with these powders. Which bullet would you recommed (147 gr like the military rounds I have)? How much powder (lyman says IMR-4895 use 40-45 gr for 150 gr bullet and IMR-4064 use 43-48 gr for 150 gr bullet) should I use? I'll probably stick to the powder gr low side. THANKS
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Old May 12, 2020, 06:51 AM   #8
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Personally, I use 43.0gr of IMR4895 with 147gr FMJ bullets, but that is with USGI brass. Winchester .308 brass is much lighter and has more case capacity so take that into consideration.

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Old May 12, 2020, 10:16 AM   #9
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M1A ammo should not be loaded to the same pressure as .308 ammo in regards to the operating systems. The op rod was considered the weak point
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Old May 12, 2020, 10:20 AM   #10
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CMP Forum

I was surfing around last night and ran across a CMP forum that talks about military rifles. I think they would have a lot of information about the Garand and M1A
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Old May 12, 2020, 02:36 PM   #11
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Quote:
M1A ammo should not be loaded to the same pressure as .308 ammo in regards to the operating systems. The op rod was considered the weak point
Unlike the original M1 Garand gas system, the M14/M1A gas system is "self regulating" meaning it is made so that a constant pressure is applied to the op rod. Higher than GI spec pressure is simply vented off and does not affect the op rod.

The gun is designed and built to run on GI spec ammo. This includes the sights. You can shoot other stuff (within reason) without damage to the gun, but some adjustments may be "off".

You can even shut off the gas system entirely and use the rifle as a straight pull bolt action with spring powered closing. Do that, and you can shoot any physically safe load you want.
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Old May 12, 2020, 03:47 PM   #12
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I'll add that pressure, in and of itself, was never the problem with the Garand, which has an extremely strong action. The problem was the gas impulse at the gas port which is the pressure at the gas port times the amount of time it takes the bullet to pass from the gas port to the muzzle. That's what determines how much gas may be pushed in through the gas port. In the Garand, which has its gas port just 1.5 inches from the muzzle, this impulse changes a lot with powder burn rate, so where it is perfectly OK to reach commercial peak pressure with a powder fast enough not to create too much muzzle pressure, it is not OK to reach that same peak pressure with a slower powder because the muzzle pressure would then be too high and can pressurize the gas cylinder to the point it can bend the Garand operating rod.

The M1A and M14, on the other hand, have the gas port roughly 8 inches back from the muzzle. At that shorter distance from where the bullet is at the pressure peak (about one to two inches into the barrel) the difference in pressure produced by different burn rate powders loaded to the same peak pressure is less. Add to this that the gas piston in the M1A/M14 closes off the gas port when it starts to move (the regulated gas system) and that the gas piston and op-rod are much shorter and stronger than the Garand op-rod, and you find the load tolerance is vastly wider in the M1A/M14 rifle family than it is in the Garand.
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Old May 12, 2020, 03:47 PM   #13
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Rod47,

Pressure specs are 50K cup or 62K psi for both cartridges.

Millions of commercial 308 match rounds from several companies has been shot in military 7.62 NATO rifles as well as M1A commercial ones.

Early specs for both military 30-06 and 7.62 ammo incorrectly stated psi units when it was actually cup units. Lots of early 308 win ammo were listed with 62K psi thereby confusing this issue. Winchester's early cup pressure system for 308 was different than Frankfort arsenal's for the 7.62 NATO they developed starting with 300 Savage cases bought from Winchester.

When the US Navy rebarreled Garands to 7.62 NATO, the barrel gas port had to be enlarged about 25% to get about 2000 psi in the gas cylinder.

'Tis interesting to me that the pressure issues regarding commercial 30-06 ammo listed at 60K psi being shot in Garands with 50K psi stated specs for ammo was seldom, if ever, called a dangerous situation.

Last edited by Bart B.; May 12, 2020 at 05:56 PM.
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Old May 13, 2020, 11:04 AM   #14
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Glen Zeideker has excellent info from his book available on line as a pdf. Your head will spin
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