Had To Draw Down This Morning!

Wildalaska · July 29, 2006, 03:00 PM

So its 3:30 am and I pull in to my parking lot. I had seen this huge hairy guy (evidently drunk) walking up the road and when I pulled into my lot from the back, I saw him standing by the front entrance so I was a bit on alert. As I am parked, the back entry to the lot is on my left side, the front entry is on my right side. There is a car immediately next to me on the right, on the left an empty space, then a car, the front of the car up against the wall of my building. My vision is therfore obstructed on the left, my back window is tinted so somewhat instructed behind. I shut the car off and as I always do I looked around, thought I saw some movement but wasnt really sure so when I got out, I was even on higher alert. Shut my car door and go to lock it when I had some sixth sense there would be something up, so I stuck my hand in my right back pocket where I carry my Seecamp in a back pocket holster and grabbed the gun but not draw. All of sudden around my car at an angle of about 11 oclock comes the dude hes now about 20 feet away with his fists clenched, I backpedal and run into the car next to me on the left...so Im trapped (really no place to go anyway but forward)...hes now about 10 feet away so I pull the Seecamp, point it as his face while saying in my best command voice "back off mother******". As soon as the gun comes up he stops dead in his tracks and begins backpedaling while cursing me (I think he said that I was a demon or Satan or something), I tell him to "get the f**k out of here" and he starts running off. Well now the adreniline is kicking down so I pace the parking lot for a bit and debate whether to call the cops, decide not to (what are thyey going to do anyway), then go in and call Spiff...

Thing Im pissed off the most about is that if he would have come closer to me I probably would have been forced to pop him...he wasnt showing a weapon but he was huge and on something and while I feel I can handle myself (despite my advancing years, pot belly and wimpy size) this guy would have been a handfull and I would have taken some punishment. Couple that with the fact that I was on my property and was basically UNABLE to retreat (I was backed into a car), I am sure it would have been a righteous shoot...but than what a hassle with paperwork and the like...

One thing that is important is attitude...while I am a nice, kind pussycat of a guy and never look for trouble, and despite of the fact that I look like a runty ungroomed rabbi, for some reason (or so I am told by my coworkers) I look either crazy or (as one guy told me) a "grandpa with an attitude"...I think this coupled with the gun drove this street scum off......

When I called Spiffy he was ready to get dressed, grab his AR and go looking for the guy, guess his love life wasnt good that night

WildandthatsmystoryAlaska

orionengnr · July 29, 2006, 03:19 PM

Glad you had it when you needed it.
0330 in Alaska, almost August...was the sun just about to come up?

What type o' Seecamp you carrying?
The more I carry, the more I like a small CHL pistol with a big hole in the barrel. If the BG can see it, the bigger the better...likewise, if I have to use it.

Gunfighter45cal · July 29, 2006, 03:21 PM

Bet that Seecamp felt tiny in your hand. Seriously, you handled it pretty well from my end. Probably should have called the police in case he comes up with a story like" I was just going to ask the guy for a cigarette and he pulled a gun on me", or if he comes back armed for revenge and you have to shoot. But it's really easy to sit here and armchair quarterback. The most important thing: you're here to post this!

Hello123 · July 29, 2006, 03:25 PM

Good job, but you should always call the police to document the situation. If the same loser comes back and you have to pop him, I would want it documented his previous behavior. I would call the cops for a report today.

Bender711 · July 29, 2006, 03:49 PM

Sounds like you did the right thing to me, good job, and im glad no one was hurt.

garryc · July 29, 2006, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Thing Im pissed off the most about is that if he would have come closer to me I probably would have been forced to pop him...he wasnt showing a weapon but he was huge and on something and while I feel I can handle myself (despite my advancing years, pot belly and wimpy size) this guy would have been a handfull and I would have taken some punishment. Couple that with the fact that I was on my property and was basically UNABLE to retreat (I was backed into a car), I am sure it would have been a righteous shoot...but than what a hassle with paperwork and the like...

And in some states you would have been justified (But not Ohio). It's called disparate force. It is reasonable to believe that you could not defend yourself in a physical confrontation with someone you believed was acting aggressively and irrationally and who was clearly superior to you in strength.

CWO4USCGRET · July 29, 2006, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Well now the adreniline is kicking down so I pace the parking lot for a bit and debate whether to call the cops, decide not to (what are thyey going to do anyway), then go in and call Spiff...

A call to the police should have been made. The aggressor should have been reported. You did good protecting yourself, but what about the next person he meets - what if it was a 12 year old girl or a 75 year old man? Next time, before you call spiffy, please report it to the police - let them decide what to do or not do.

18DAI · July 29, 2006, 04:06 PM

Good job. Glad your ok. First to dial 911, is usually perceived as the "victim". Might be worth the call, if there's a next time. Stay safe. Regards 18DAI.

SGHOTH · July 29, 2006, 04:17 PM

Glad you are OK and everthing ended well.

Wildalaska · July 29, 2006, 04:25 PM

The reason I didnt call 911 was the fact that I would have had to stand around and wait forever and what would they do...put out a BOLO for some guy who is long gone?

In retrospect I should have...but I jest needed to call my Spiffy

So let me get this one up: If the guy would have kept coming, shoot or not shoot? Wait for contact or just pop him?

WildletmehearyourthoughtsAlaska

kingudaroad · July 29, 2006, 04:45 PM

If an attack was immanent, I think hairy dude needed to be shot. One thing to note is that the size of your gun did not make a bit of difference. One look down the barrel and the confrontation was over. Great job WA.

TexasSIGMan · July 29, 2006, 04:48 PM

Quote:

So let me get this one up: If the guy would have kept coming, shoot or not shoot? Wait for contact or just pop him?

Well I would think that Alaska, like Texas, is still in the United States (unlike a few of the 50, they know who they are).....

On your own property, after presenting a weapon and commanding stop, no place to retreat to, and a larger opponent acting aggressive, were I in your case I would have fired if he continued the advance.

There is always the odd chance of encountering someone that is just for whatever reason really confused, and harmless, but I'd not take that chance.

Glad you didn't have to make that choice and glad you're OK... Might have screwed up me getting my 556.........

PinnedAndRecessed · July 29, 2006, 04:53 PM

Quote:

If the guy would have kept coming, shoot or not shoot? Wait for contact or just pop him?

My CCW instructor here in OK said that before one can pull a handgun he/she should have already been assaulted. Specifically, I'm on the ground with a bloody nose and the attacker is kicking me.

The instructor even demonstrated such a shot.

In short, he was full of it.

This was the same guy who insisted Smith and Wesson had already marketed a computerized "smart gun" and that a bullet, fired into the air, would hit the ground with the same velocity as with which it ascended.

Those were just a few of his "pearls of wisdom."

kymasabe · July 29, 2006, 05:02 PM

I think you did well. And to answer your question, if he had advanced and intended you harm, firing in defense would have been my response.

I'm often chuckled at for carrying my Kel-Tec .32...I'm curious, what Seecamp were you carrying?

Little gun or not...it certainly was effective wasn't it!

Wildalaska · July 29, 2006, 05:08 PM

I carry the Seecamp 32 with silvertips

For the average Joe, I think a small auto is a back pocket is faster to present thatn anything in a belt holster.

WildimhoAlaska

Tim Burke · July 29, 2006, 05:15 PM

Quote:

I think a small auto is a back pocket is faster to present thatn anything in a belt holster.

It's fast if you start with your hand on the gun. The great thing about pocket carry is that starting with your hand on the gun is easy, but doesn't telegraph your intentions.

bg226 · July 29, 2006, 05:20 PM

Glad you are safe.

A .32 in the pocket is better than a .45 in the safe.

springmom · July 29, 2006, 05:22 PM

Next time, call the police. Documentation is your friend.

If he had kept coming you had two choices. One is to stand and take it, and the other would have been to shoot. And you would have been furious with him, most likely, for being so stupid as to make you shoot him. You handled it well.

Springgladitwasn'tmemom

Bender711 · July 29, 2006, 05:36 PM

Like my dad always yells at the TV. SHOOT HIM IN THE HEAD! Thats my though on shoot or no shoot if he had kept coming.

Knotthead · July 29, 2006, 05:59 PM

I agree that the proper thing to do is to call the police for the variety of reasons given above, but I might have hesitated myself. If I lived in one of the more urban areas of my home state (KY), I might not have out of fear that the police would have made me out to be the bad guy. While I expect that most rural law enforcement officers understand the need for self-reliance, my perception is that the more urban ones do not. I don't have anything to back this assumption up, and I wondered if anyone out there has any experience with this situation.

Dwight55 · July 29, 2006, 06:01 PM

garryc, . . . what's so special about Ohio that makes the proposition of shooting this slime ball off limits?

Far as I can see, . . . me and WildAlaska are just a couple of old geezers who CCW, . . . and neither of us is in the physical shape to take on someone 30 years our junior, . . . in a street fight.

I figure the guy would have been a serious threat to my life, limb, health, etc. and that IS sufficient to pop him if push comes to shove. Get beat up if you want, . . . but I have a 1911 and 25 rounds of ammo for it on me most of the time and I ain't takin' a thrashing from some punk who wants to rob me and beat me to a pulp for kicks and giggles.

If I don't see a weapon, . . . I'll give him the benefit and tell him to stop. But if I see his ball bat, . . . club, . . . knife, . . . he'll probably wish he didn't have them when he went to the gun fight.

Good job, Wild, . . .

May God bless,
Dwight

imur_huckle_berry · July 29, 2006, 06:29 PM

Quote:

So let me get this one up: If the guy would have kept coming, shoot or not shoot? Wait for contact or just pop him?

shoot

Lancel · July 29, 2006, 06:32 PM

Sometimes I also choose to carry my Seecamp .32 as a primary. It's done with the understanding that I'll have to work harder to stop the bad guy.

Quote:

If the guy would have kept coming, shoot or not shoot? Wait for contact or just pop him?

The scariest bad guy I ever knew didn't carry a weapon. He was a big psycho with plenty of knife scars on his normally shirtless chest. The local police were even afraid of him.

The point is that if a person is told to stop but is determined to close on a drawn pistol, he's beyond common sense and negotiation. Yes, I would shoot.

And I would notify the police to be logged as the concerned, justified citizen I am.

Larry

springmom · July 29, 2006, 06:35 PM

Quote:

I agree that the proper thing to do is to call the police for the variety of reasons given above, but I might have hesitated myself. If I lived in one of the more urban areas of my home state (KY), I might not have out of fear that the police would have made me out to be the bad guy. While I expect that most rural law enforcement officers understand the need for self-reliance, my perception is that the more urban ones do not. I don't have anything to back this assumption up, and I wondered if anyone out there has any experience with this situation.
Today 05:36 PM

The constables, sheriffs, and Houston PD...and most importantly, the District Attorney...are good about their treatment of people who must shoot in self-defense. It has to be a legal shoot, but if it is, then it is, and they're not going to harass you.

They are, however, likely to say "Good for you."

Springmom

18DAI · July 29, 2006, 06:35 PM

If he'd have kept on coming, I'd have called for two ambulances, and then told the officers (when they arrived) that I was in fear for my life, and before I cooperated with his investigation, I'd like to speak with my attorney. My 0.02 Thankfully, your ok, without having to ride out that crap storm. Regards 18DAI.

July 29, 2006, 03:00 PM	#1
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	Had To Draw Down This Morning! So its 3:30 am and I pull in to my parking lot. I had seen this huge hairy guy (evidently drunk) walking up the road and when I pulled into my lot from the back, I saw him standing by the front entrance so I was a bit on alert. As I am parked, the back entry to the lot is on my left side, the front entry is on my right side. There is a car immediately next to me on the right, on the left an empty space, then a car, the front of the car up against the wall of my building. My vision is therfore obstructed on the left, my back window is tinted so somewhat instructed behind. I shut the car off and as I always do I looked around, thought I saw some movement but wasnt really sure so when I got out, I was even on higher alert. Shut my car door and go to lock it when I had some sixth sense there would be something up, so I stuck my hand in my right back pocket where I carry my Seecamp in a back pocket holster and grabbed the gun but not draw. All of sudden around my car at an angle of about 11 oclock comes the dude hes now about 20 feet away with his fists clenched, I backpedal and run into the car next to me on the left...so Im trapped (really no place to go anyway but forward)...hes now about 10 feet away so I pull the Seecamp, point it as his face while saying in my best command voice "back off mother****". As soon as the gun comes up he stops dead in his tracks and begins backpedaling while cursing me (I think he said that I was a demon or Satan or something), I tell him to "get the fk out of here" and he starts running off. Well now the adreniline is kicking down so I pace the parking lot for a bit and debate whether to call the cops, decide not to (what are thyey going to do anyway), then go in and call Spiff... Thing Im pissed off the most about is that if he would have come closer to me I probably would have been forced to pop him...he wasnt showing a weapon but he was huge and on something and while I feel I can handle myself (despite my advancing years, pot belly and wimpy size) this guy would have been a handfull and I would have taken some punishment. Couple that with the fact that I was on my property and was basically UNABLE to retreat (I was backed into a car), I am sure it would have been a righteous shoot...but than what a hassle with paperwork and the like... One thing that is important is attitude...while I am a nice, kind pussycat of a guy and never look for trouble, and despite of the fact that I look like a runty ungroomed rabbi, for some reason (or so I am told by my coworkers) I look either crazy or (as one guy told me) a "grandpa with an attitude"...I think this coupled with the gun drove this street scum off...... When I called Spiffy he was ready to get dressed, grab his AR and go looking for the guy, guess his love life wasnt good that night WildandthatsmystoryAlaska

July 29, 2006, 03:19 PM	#2
orionengnr Senior Member Join Date: July 9, 2004 Posts: 5,177	wow, good on ya... Glad you had it when you needed it. 0330 in Alaska, almost August...was the sun just about to come up? What type o' Seecamp you carrying? The more I carry, the more I like a small CHL pistol with a big hole in the barrel. If the BG can see it, the bigger the better...likewise, if I have to use it.

July 29, 2006, 03:21 PM	#3
Gunfighter45cal Member Join Date: December 18, 2005 Location: east tn Posts: 24	Bet that Seecamp felt tiny in your hand. Seriously, you handled it pretty well from my end. Probably should have called the police in case he comes up with a story like" I was just going to ask the guy for a cigarette and he pulled a gun on me", or if he comes back armed for revenge and you have to shoot. But it's really easy to sit here and armchair quarterback. The most important thing: you're here to post this! __________________ Thunder Ranch THG & UR Gunsite 250C Yavapai Firearms Academy HG1, HG2 & SG NRA Life Member

July 29, 2006, 03:49 PM	#5
Bender711 Senior Member Join Date: September 20, 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 340	Sounds like you did the right thing to me, good job, and im glad no one was hurt. __________________ From a Mod "Seeing as how "butt Smurf" is not profanity in the usual sense and humorously creative, I'll leave this up for now"

July 29, 2006, 05:02 PM	#14
kymasabe Senior Member Join Date: June 10, 2005 Location: SW Florida Posts: 2,747	I think you did well. And to answer your question, if he had advanced and intended you harm, firing in defense would have been my response. I'm often chuckled at for carrying my Kel-Tec .32...I'm curious, what Seecamp were you carrying? Little gun or not...it certainly was effective wasn't it! __________________ God's creatures big and small, eat them one, eat them all.

July 29, 2006, 03:25 PM	#4
Hello123 Senior Member Join Date: February 21, 2005 Posts: 571	Good job, but you should always call the police to document the situation. If the same loser comes back and you have to pop him, I would want it documented his previous behavior. I would call the cops for a report today.

July 29, 2006, 04:06 PM	#8
18DAI Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2005 Location: NC Posts: 2,156	Good job. Glad your ok. First to dial 911, is usually perceived as the "victim". Might be worth the call, if there's a next time. Stay safe. Regards 18DAI.

July 29, 2006, 04:17 PM	#9
SGHOTH Senior Member Join Date: June 5, 2004 Posts: 452	Glad you are OK and everthing ended well.

July 29, 2006, 04:25 PM	#10
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	The reason I didnt call 911 was the fact that I would have had to stand around and wait forever and what would they do...put out a BOLO for some guy who is long gone? In retrospect I should have...but I jest needed to call my Spiffy So let me get this one up: If the guy would have kept coming, shoot or not shoot? Wait for contact or just pop him? WildletmehearyourthoughtsAlaska

July 29, 2006, 04:45 PM	#11
kingudaroad Senior Member Join Date: March 11, 2005 Location: austin Posts: 735	If an attack was immanent, I think hairy dude needed to be shot. One thing to note is that the size of your gun did not make a bit of difference. One look down the barrel and the confrontation was over. Great job WA.

July 29, 2006, 05:08 PM	#15
Wildalaska Junior member Join Date: November 25, 2002 Location: In my own little weird world in Anchorage, Alaska Posts: 14,172	I carry the Seecamp 32 with silvertips For the average Joe, I think a small auto is a back pocket is faster to present thatn anything in a belt holster. WildimhoAlaska

July 29, 2006, 05:20 PM	#17
bg226 Member Join Date: July 8, 2006 Posts: 30	Glad you are safe. A .32 in the pocket is better than a .45 in the safe.

July 29, 2006, 05:22 PM	#18
springmom Senior Member Join Date: October 26, 2005 Location: Houston area Posts: 1,823	Glad you're ok Next time, call the police. Documentation is your friend. If he had kept coming you had two choices. One is to stand and take it, and the other would have been to shoot. And you would have been furious with him, most likely, for being so stupid as to make you shoot him. You handled it well. Springgladitwasn'tmemom __________________ I will not be a victim home on the web: www.panagia-icons.net (my webpage) www.nousfromspring.blogspot.com (Orthodoxy) "I couldn't hear you. Stop firing the gun while you're talking!" Frank Drebin, The Naked Gun

July 29, 2006, 05:36 PM	#19
Bender711 Senior Member Join Date: September 20, 2005 Location: Florida Posts: 340	Like my dad always yells at the TV. SHOOT HIM IN THE HEAD! Thats my though on shoot or no shoot if he had kept coming. __________________ From a Mod "Seeing as how "butt Smurf" is not profanity in the usual sense and humorously creative, I'll leave this up for now"

July 29, 2006, 05:59 PM	#20
Knotthead Member Join Date: July 22, 2006 Posts: 71	I agree that the proper thing to do is to call the police for the variety of reasons given above, but I might have hesitated myself. If I lived in one of the more urban areas of my home state (KY), I might not have out of fear that the police would have made me out to be the bad guy. While I expect that most rural law enforcement officers understand the need for self-reliance, my perception is that the more urban ones do not. I don't have anything to back this assumption up, and I wondered if anyone out there has any experience with this situation.

July 29, 2006, 06:01 PM	#21
Dwight55 Senior Member Join Date: June 18, 2004 Location: Central Ohio Posts: 2,568	garryc, . . . what's so special about Ohio that makes the proposition of shooting this slime ball off limits? Far as I can see, . . . me and WildAlaska are just a couple of old geezers who CCW, . . . and neither of us is in the physical shape to take on someone 30 years our junior, . . . in a street fight. I figure the guy would have been a serious threat to my life, limb, health, etc. and that IS sufficient to pop him if push comes to shove. Get beat up if you want, . . . but I have a 1911 and 25 rounds of ammo for it on me most of the time and I ain't takin' a thrashing from some punk who wants to rob me and beat me to a pulp for kicks and giggles. If I don't see a weapon, . . . I'll give him the benefit and tell him to stop. But if I see his ball bat, . . . club, . . . knife, . . . he'll probably wish he didn't have them when he went to the gun fight. Good job, Wild, . . . May God bless, Dwight __________________ www.dwightsgunleather.com If you can breathe, . . . thank God! If you can read, . . . thank a teacher! If you are reading this in English, . . . thank a Veteran!

July 29, 2006, 06:35 PM	#25
18DAI Senior Member Join Date: September 30, 2005 Location: NC Posts: 2,156	If he'd have kept on coming, I'd have called for two ambulances, and then told the officers (when they arrived) that I was in fear for my life, and before I cooperated with his investigation, I'd like to speak with my attorney. My 0.02 Thankfully, your ok, without having to ride out that crap storm. Regards 18DAI.