Winchester .351

ahenry · October 6, 2001, 12:00 AM

A family friend gave me a Winchester 351 that had belonged to his dad then passed on to him. It is possible that it was his dads before that (i.e. 3 generations). He knew nothing about the gun, and I am having some problems locating info on the gun itself. I have been able to find enough info on the ammunition, but the rifle eludes me. Can any of you point me in the right direction or tell me more about this (even what model it is)? Thanks for the help guys.

Steven Mace · October 6, 2001, 03:05 AM

I believe the rifle you're refering to is the Winchester Model 1907. Hope this helps!

Steve Mace

Cougar · October 6, 2001, 07:30 AM

Back at the turn of the last century, Winchester had an entire family of self-loading rifles. They were all straight blowback actions. There was the Mod 1903 .22 (not.22LR), then there were the Mod 1905, 1907 and 1910 centerfire guns in .32 WSL (Winchester Self Loading), .351 WSL and .401 WSL calibers respectively.

The 1903, introduced in 1903, was a rimfire that fed trough a tube in the buttstock. The '05, '07 and '10 were centerfire and fed from a 'normal' detachable magazine. All calibers were straight-walled cases and of medium velocity. I don't know of the ballistics of the other calibers, but the .401 expelled a 210grain .405" dia bullet at around 1900fps. I still have a half a box of Remington JSPs.

My father had a Mod 1910 he had used for deer as a teen back in the '40s.

As an interesting aside, the .32WSL caliber was the rough basis for the .30 Carbine round, also developed by Winchester.

**Mike Irwin** · October 6, 2001, 01:30 PM

The 1905 was also chambered for the .35 Winchester Self Loading cartridge, a less powerful round than the .351. Same bullet, though.

The .32 and .35 WSL cartridges are really top contenders for the most useless cartridges ever developed.

ahenry · October 6, 2001, 06:00 PM

That’s what I was looking for guys. Sure appreciate the help.

James K · October 7, 2001, 12:19 AM

The .351 Model 1907 was at one time very popular with police (including security guards, prison guards, armored car guards, etc.), and 10 (and I think 15) round mags were made for it. At the time of the 1970's riots in Washington, I saw a couple of GSA guards with armloads of those guns. I wanted to make them an offer, but nobody had a sense of humor at that time, so I didn't say anything. They have probably been long since scrapped.

Jim

Dr.Rob · October 11, 2001, 11:28 PM

Just as a side note I recall reading that a pair of 1907 .351 winchesters were in on the Bonnie and Clyde ambush. It was indeed a popular long arm of the law.

biganimal · October 12, 2001, 08:40 PM

the '07 is a wonderful little rifle, it feels neat when fired cuz you can feel it working. I reload for a friend who has one that was used in attica prison in the seventies. he's killed several deer with it. I have been trying to buy it for 10 years to no avail.

rsherman · July 23, 2005, 10:58 AM

I reciently inheridated my Grandfathers 351, I used to use it as a deer rifle as a kid. I've been told that it was my Grandfathers old U>S> Calvary rifle. rsherman

farmall · July 23, 2005, 03:16 PM

Weren't some of these rifles purchased by France just prior to WW2? It seems to me that there were problems getting the MAS36 into production, so they bought these, in .351, to issue to some troops. Saw a 1907 in .401 sell at an auction a few weeks back. Fair condition at best. $1450....Never any reasonable gun prices on auctions around here!

**Mike Irwin** · July 24, 2005, 12:52 PM

I sincerely doubt if the Winchester 1907 was ever used as a military rifle to arm cavalry troops in the US.

The French didn't buy the 1907s prior to World War II, but during WW I. Some were apparently issued early in the war to aircraft observers prior to machine guns being routinely mounted.

After the war the French experimented with the rifle, and its case, marrying the 8mm Balle D bullet to the .351 case (slightly bottlenecked) as a means of improving its short range performance.

Nothing ever came of it.

farmall · July 24, 2005, 06:05 PM

Thanks, Mike. It's good to know that the voices in my head weren't completely wrong!!

**Mike Irwin** · July 24, 2005, 11:09 PM

Here we go...

It was called the 8mm Ribeyrolle, and was developed between 1917 and 1918. Apparently the round was developed for an experimental automatic rifle also known as the Ribeyrolle.

aspen1964 · August 20, 2005, 11:29 PM

i have a seller who is holding a mint 07 for me...it is an expensive round to shoot but so what...when i croak all my money stays here anyway...it shows fine manufacturing from earlier days...it is a compromise for deer class game...but keep range to 100 yds. and take a good shot...for those who say it is useless are too blinded to see it's usefulness...

**Mike Irwin** · August 21, 2005, 10:22 AM

"for those who say it's useless are too blinded to see its usefulness"

Read again, boyo.

No one has said that the 07 or its cartridge is useless.

The two cartridges for the 05? They were useless. Even Winchester agreed, dropping them from production and manufacture faster than any other cartridges they ever produced.

October 6, 2001, 12:00 AM	#1
ahenry Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 1,764	Winchester .351 A family friend gave me a Winchester 351 that had belonged to his dad then passed on to him. It is possible that it was his dads before that (i.e. 3 generations). He knew nothing about the gun, and I am having some problems locating info on the gun itself. I have been able to find enough info on the ammunition, but the rifle eludes me. Can any of you point me in the right direction or tell me more about this (even what model it is)? Thanks for the help guys. __________________ Doing what you've done, gets you what you've got.

October 6, 2001, 03:05 AM	#2
Steven Mace Senior Member Join Date: November 15, 1999 Location: Clifton, Colorado USA Posts: 724	I believe the rifle you're refering to is the Winchester Model 1907. Hope this helps! Steve Mace __________________ After today, its all historical

October 6, 2001, 07:30 AM	#3
Cougar Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2000 Location: N.E. Ohio Posts: 637	Winchester Self-Loaders Back at the turn of the last century, Winchester had an entire family of self-loading rifles. They were all straight blowback actions. There was the Mod 1903 .22 (not.22LR), then there were the Mod 1905, 1907 and 1910 centerfire guns in .32 WSL (Winchester Self Loading), .351 WSL and .401 WSL calibers respectively. The 1903, introduced in 1903, was a rimfire that fed trough a tube in the buttstock. The '05, '07 and '10 were centerfire and fed from a 'normal' detachable magazine. All calibers were straight-walled cases and of medium velocity. I don't know of the ballistics of the other calibers, but the .401 expelled a 210grain .405" dia bullet at around 1900fps. I still have a half a box of Remington JSPs. My father had a Mod 1910 he had used for deer as a teen back in the '40s. As an interesting aside, the .32WSL caliber was the rough basis for the .30 Carbine round, also developed by Winchester.

October 6, 2001, 01:30 PM	#4
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	The 1905 was also chambered for the .35 Winchester Self Loading cartridge, a less powerful round than the .351. Same bullet, though. The .32 and .35 WSL cartridges are really top contenders for the most useless cartridges ever developed. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

October 6, 2001, 06:00 PM	#5
ahenry Senior Member Join Date: January 25, 2001 Location: Alabama Posts: 1,764	That’s what I was looking for guys. Sure appreciate the help. __________________ Doing what you've done, gets you what you've got.

October 7, 2001, 12:19 AM	#6
James K Member In Memoriam Join Date: March 17, 1999 Posts: 24,383	The .351 Model 1907 was at one time very popular with police (including security guards, prison guards, armored car guards, etc.), and 10 (and I think 15) round mags were made for it. At the time of the 1970's riots in Washington, I saw a couple of GSA guards with armloads of those guns. I wanted to make them an offer, but nobody had a sense of humor at that time, so I didn't say anything. They have probably been long since scrapped. Jim

October 11, 2001, 11:28 PM	#7
Dr.Rob Staff Alumnus Join Date: July 28, 1999 Location: Denver Posts: 2,454	Just as a side note I recall reading that a pair of 1907 .351 winchesters were in on the Bonnie and Clyde ambush. It was indeed a popular long arm of the law. __________________ You broke into the wrong Rec Room!

October 12, 2001, 08:40 PM	#8
biganimal Senior Member Join Date: March 5, 2001 Location: south carolina Posts: 435	the '07 is a wonderful little rifle, it feels neat when fired cuz you can feel it working. I reload for a friend who has one that was used in attica prison in the seventies. he's killed several deer with it. I have been trying to buy it for 10 years to no avail. __________________ Other than That, Mrs Lincoln, How was the play?

July 23, 2005, 10:58 AM	#9
rsherman Junior Member Join Date: July 23, 2005 Posts: 1	Winchester 351 I reciently inheridated my Grandfathers 351, I used to use it as a deer rifle as a kid. I've been told that it was my Grandfathers old U>S> Calvary rifle. rsherman

July 23, 2005, 03:16 PM	#10
farmall Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2004 Location: Beatrice Nebraska Posts: 613	Weren't some of these rifles purchased by France just prior to WW2? It seems to me that there were problems getting the MAS36 into production, so they bought these, in .351, to issue to some troops. Saw a 1907 in .401 sell at an auction a few weeks back. Fair condition at best. $1450....Never any reasonable gun prices on auctions around here!

July 24, 2005, 12:52 PM	#11
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	I sincerely doubt if the Winchester 1907 was ever used as a military rifle to arm cavalry troops in the US. The French didn't buy the 1907s prior to World War II, but during WW I. Some were apparently issued early in the war to aircraft observers prior to machine guns being routinely mounted. After the war the French experimented with the rifle, and its case, marrying the 8mm Balle D bullet to the .351 case (slightly bottlenecked) as a means of improving its short range performance. Nothing ever came of it.

July 24, 2005, 06:05 PM	#12
farmall Senior Member Join Date: December 7, 2004 Location: Beatrice Nebraska Posts: 613	Thanks, Mike. It's good to know that the voices in my head weren't completely wrong!!

July 24, 2005, 11:09 PM	#13
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	Here we go... It was called the 8mm Ribeyrolle, and was developed between 1917 and 1918. Apparently the round was developed for an experimental automatic rifle also known as the Ribeyrolle.

August 20, 2005, 11:29 PM	#14
aspen1964 Senior Member Join Date: August 20, 2005 Posts: 1,030	winchester 07 351 i have a seller who is holding a mint 07 for me...it is an expensive round to shoot but so what...when i croak all my money stays here anyway...it shows fine manufacturing from earlier days...it is a compromise for deer class game...but keep range to 100 yds. and take a good shot...for those who say it is useless are too blinded to see it's usefulness...

August 21, 2005, 10:22 AM	#15
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 13, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 41,390	"for those who say it's useless are too blinded to see its usefulness" Read again, boyo. No one has said that the 07 or its cartridge is useless. The two cartridges for the 05? They were useless. Even Winchester agreed, dropping them from production and manufacture faster than any other cartridges they ever produced.