Browning Hi-Power: Educate me, please

[drobs]

Originally Posted by alfredr

You do need to be advised though that FEG made some pistols that look very much like a Hi-Power, but aren't. And their model designations are sometimes confusing or unclear which is which. I believe mine is a 9HP (the clone) and the P9R mentioned by kilimanjaro is sometimes a clone and sometimes not. Still a fine enough pistol, but it may not be a Hi-Power clone. (Or then again, it might be.)

Look for the oval shaped Cross Bolt on the frame of a Feg (see below). No Cross Bolt = not a Hi Power.

[Spats McGee]

Thank you, everyone. Clearly, I have plenty of research to do while I save up for this one.

[highpower3006]

I have had the same old FN Hipower for a number of years. I also had an FM Hipower that was stolen from me many years ago. Quite honestly, they both handled the same, the only difference was that the Argentine HP was parkerized vs blued for the Belgian gun.

Despite it being considered outdated and obsolete by today's standards, I still like to carry mine.

[Pilot]

I took a combat hand gun course a few years ago, and my primary gun was my MK III BHP. Everyone else except for one other guy (he had a BHP) also had newer polymer firearms. Glocks, HK USP's etc. All fine guns of course. I was jokingly called "old school", "old timer", etc. I got lucky and ended up scoring at the top of the course with the old BHP, and I think the other guy with the BHP came in second. It was pretty funny.

They are still a relevant, elegant, and useful tool. I don't understand why some call them "obsolete". Mec Gar makes excellent flush fit 15 round mags, so I don't see why you lose anything by carrying a BHP.

[Bartholomew Roberts]

My preferences for shooter Hi-Powers are post-2000 MkIII Hi-Powers whether FN marked or Browning marked. Those are the most durable IMO, with a cast frame and a number of small parts improvements. Downside is the increased cost of these pistols is usually not worth the small gains in durability over the earlier surplus MkIIIs on the market.

Second is any cast-frame MkIII - while MOST MkIIIs are cast frame, not all of them are. 1995 and later are usually (90%+) cast frame. 1990-1992 are usually 90% forged frame MkIIIs. Steve Camp goes into how to identify what you are looking at; but ridges on the butt are not 100% accurate. Again, this preference is only for a high-volume shooter Hi-Power.

After that, forged frame MkIII, just because they have larger more practical sights and they are already dovetailed and easy to replace.

Then any MkII. Anything before the MkIIs is usually too pretty to shoot a lot or it has smaller sights, controls, less sturdy parts, etc. and won't make a goid shooter for my purposes without a fair amount of work.

[gyvel]

Here is my FEG clone. It has been rode hard and put up wet for over 25 years and still functions perfectly. The original grips were wooden. I have never approached it with a 10' Pole, though my friend Peotr is 6'9"...

And you have one of the extremely rare left handed models!

[gyvel]

Yes some of them are more like S&W 39s had sex with a BHP and spawned the P9R.

The pity of that is the P9R is not a bad gun. The biggest problems are that the grip is bulky and there are little to no parts available for it any more.

[Tom68]

"The pity of that is the P9R is not a bad gun. The biggest problems are that the grip is bulky and there are little to no parts available for it any more."

I have one that is definitely NOT a good gun, and I have no idea how to make it work. With three different magazines it malfunctions on nearly every shot. I have about $250 in it but I suspect I'd have to buy it all over again if I could find someone that could fix it. I started a thread on it a few years and really got nowhere. Caveat emptor...

[JJNA]

I have a Mk III I purchased used, and it has the half moon front sight. Does anyone know what that's all about?

[101combatvet]

My first handgun was an FN, damn I miss it.

[gyvel]

I have one that is definitely NOT a good gun, and I have no idea how to make it work. With three different magazines it malfunctions on nearly every shot.

Are they factory mags?

I bought one years ago and it shoots OK, but it just left me cold.

[gyvel]

Duplicate post.

[gyvel]

I have a Mk III I purchased used, and it has the half moon front sight. Does anyone know what that's all about?

Military contract overrun? FN is not above putting contract overruns on the commercial market.

Either that or it was assembled with a leftover slide.

[James K]

AFAIK, the FN BHP did not use a cast frame; they were forged. I don't know about the various clones, except the FEG which also appears to be forged.

The FEG P9M guns are pretty good*, and well made, and most BHP parts will interchange. But they didn't tumble parts, so the insides are full of burrs and sharp edges; if you decide to do a detail strip, stock up on adhesive bandages - you will need them.

*The P9M is a BHP clone; the P9R is a DA/SA pistol which resembles the BHP but is a different gun.

Jim

[Hal]

The HP is a very easy subject to educate someone on.

All you do is look at one, then pick it up.

If the "magic" is there, you'll smile.
If the "magic" isn't there, you'll wonder what all the fuss is about.

One little tiny step is all it takes from that point.
You get yourself a set of Craig Spegel "thin" grips.

[WVsig]

AFAIK, the FN BHP did not use a cast frame; they were forged. I don't know about the various clones, except the FEG which also appears to be forged.

This is not true. There are many FN Hi Powers that have cast frames. They still make them and sell them to the rest of the world. In the early 2000s there are SFS guns and a large amount of standard MKIIIs imported by FN that were marked with import marks Coulmbia, SC & Fredericksburg, VA. They attempted to attract the LEO market and failed. These guns were dumped to CDNN and sold for about $400-$500 a piece. I should have bought 50.

If you look at the Israeli imports you will find MKIII guns with FN rollmarks. AIM has some right now. http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1FNHPMK3I

[drobs]

Here's some reading on forged vs cast frames:
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/d...st%20frame.htm

[Walt Sherrill]

RE: BHP with cast frames.

That change to cast frames wasn't undertaken until after FN introduced a .40 version of the gun and some shooters started experiencing problems and frame failures. The original forged frame design didn't hold up to the .40 round. and FN changed to a beefier cast frame that looks pretty much the same. FN changed the 9mm models to cast frame, too, either at the same time or quickly thereafter. Stephen's site might explain all of that. (I haven't visited the site since his death...)

Stephen Camp's site is a exceptional source of information about Hi-Powers (and also has some good info about CZs -- Stephen liked them a lot!), but any recent changes to the gun -- like FN dropping the .40 from new production -- may not be noted there. There were (maybe still are) some technical materials available for sale there. I have a copy of "STEPHEN CAMP'S HI-POWER DISASSEMBLY", a three sheet pamphlet with detailed, color photo-illustrated instructions (printed on both sides on heavy paper and laminated in heavy clear plastic).

That guide is worth its weight in gold if you're new to Hi-Powers.
.

[Hal]

3. What other peculiarities should I be aware of in this hunt?

There is one off the wall one...
Since you're open to (or appear to be open to) "High Power Like" pistols....
Browning came out in the early 1990's with an innovative pistol called the BDM - for Browning Double Mode.
It has a selector that you can use to change it from "pistol" to "revolver".

They came out in 1991, began shipping in any real quantity in 1993- ish & then ran head first into Brady.

That left Browning with a 10 shot - double stack - full sized pistol that had very little demand.
Browning dropped it in 1998.
There are plenty of 10 round magazines for them, but, the 13 round magazines are rare.
Since no real quantity of them was made, there's no after market magazines I'm aware of in the higher capacity.

"Collectors" scarfed them up at ridiculous close out prices. I saw them sell in 1999 for as little as $280.00. (My High Power @ that time cost me about $600).
I noticed they are beginning to show up now & the prices are very low.

If you run across one in your search, they handle just like a BHP & they are a "real" Browning.
One is worth a 2nd and 3rd look if the price is right.
Just make sure it includes a magazine or two.

[Walt Sherrill]

Re: the BDM.

The BDM carried the Browning rollmark on it's slide, but had little to do with the Browning or FN Hi-Power design. While it had a generally similar appearance, internally it was completely different design. High-cap magazines, which are different from BHP mags, are apparently made of unobtainium. (The previous poster says 10-round mags are available.) I don't think I've seen either for years! I suspect that most parts are made of the same unobtanium, too. I've not shot a BDM but have only seen one at the range and at a gun show, but I have read about them. I appreciate that reading and viewing aren't the same as owning and becoming more familiar with the gun -- it's possible that the design may have some virtues that aren't mentioned in these type of discussion.

The BDM, which was DA/SA, apparently also has a slightly different optional mode that lets you start from something like half-cock mode. The BDM was made only in the U.S. and discontinued in 1998. It was apparently designed to compete for police contracts -- but didn't win any. It was sold on the civilian market.

It's a totally different gun with a surprisingly different manual of arms: the safety (which is also a decocker) is ON when it's down, and ready to fire or be decocked when it's up -- different than most guns. Someone who has one -- like one of the earlier posters -- can tell us whether c&l is possible.

[JJNA]

I had a BDM in the '90s. It was a mediocre gun. The grip was not nearly as comfortable as that of the Hi Power, the trigger was so so, and it was needlessly complicated. It died for a reason.

No cocked-and-locked. Either traditional double action or DAO.

[WVsig]

I had a BDM in the '90s. It was a mediocre gun. The grip was not nearly as comfortable as that of the Hi Power, the trigger was so so, and it was needlessly complicated. It died for a reason.

No cocked-and-locked. Either traditional double action or DAO.

It was a solution looking for a problem. LOL They made them because the LEO wanted DA/SA or DAO designs but it never so to LEO in the days when S&W Gen 3s dominated the LEO market before Glock took it over. They should have just stuck with the BHP. IMHO

They like so many of FNs attempts to break into the US LEO market ended up being liquidated to the general public at steep discounts.

[gyvel]

I also had the misfortune to have a BDM. What killed the gun for me was the discovery of diecast parts, and the use of RTV Silastic to hold certain parts in the slide.

What sold me on it in the first place was the grip, which felt extraordinary in my hand. It went downhill from there.

[JJNA]

I might add that accuracy of that BDM was not that great either. It was certainly worse than any Hi Power I owned, including a beat-up Israeli MK II.

Instead of BDM, FN/Browning should have designed and released a compact version of the Hi Power, similar to what CZ did with its 75 platform.

[gyvel]

Instead of BDM, FN/Browning should have designed and released a compact version of the Hi Power, similar to what CZ did with its 75 platform.

IIRC, the BDM was designed by a couple of Czechs, and manufactured in the U.S. I don't think FN had anything to do with it.

Regarding a compact, that's exactly what FN did with the HP-DA, available as both a full-size and compact. The only real flaw I can see in the HP-DA is the use of proprietary mags; Luckily, the HP-DA hi-caps have become available again.

FWIW, the HP-DA wasn't a total flop; It was adopted by the Finns.