Raven Arms Safety on/off

Rmbha · October 23, 2016, 03:39 PM

Could someone tell me if a Raven Arms .25 caliber manufactured before 1996 had a slide or push up safety? Thank you.

745SW · October 23, 2016, 04:32 PM

I probably bought my Raven 25ACP in the late eighties. It has the crummy sliding safety. The safety will engage/turn-on before the mag empties. I think it will hit a dinner plate at 25yds.

Rmbha · October 23, 2016, 04:38 PM

I finally found it online. It was a slide. How easy would it be for it to accidentally turn off? With a rubber slip on grip wouldn't be harder because your hand wouldn't slide?

marine6680 · October 23, 2016, 09:36 PM

Why are we asking?

qwiksdraw · October 23, 2016, 09:51 PM

Sootch00 did a good review on the Raven 25ACP:

https://www.full30.com/video/2e4d89a...8ffe899fc544c6

Rmbha · October 23, 2016, 09:56 PM

Thank you. I will look it up.

I'm asking because someone told me it accidentally turned off on theirs.

benEzra · October 27, 2016, 06:07 PM

My ex-wife's first gun was a Phoenix Arms Raven, purchased around 1994 or 1995 I think. It had a small sliding safety on the left side of the frame, if I remember correctly. It was fairly easy to move, so I could see it getting accidentally bumped to the off position if it were jostled a lot.

Her philosophy for carrying it was to carry it chamber empty, safety off. That way she didn't have to worry about the safety getting bumped off. She eventually moved on to a Glock 26 when we could afford it, but that Raven gave her at lot of peace of mind when walking the dog at night and whatnot, when that was all she could afford.

Rmbha · October 27, 2016, 06:10 PM

Do you know how hard the trigger pull was?

benEzra · October 27, 2016, 08:33 PM

It was reasonably light, as I recall, since it is a single-action (e.g. it is fully cocked by cycling the slide, and the trigger just releases the sear). I couldn't find any technical data sheets on the MP-25, but I'm guessing it was roughly comparable to or slightly heavier than other single-action guns, e.g. Ruger Standard Model semiauto, or a single-action revolver. I saw a guesstimate of a 6-pound pull on another forum, which sounds close enough.

To clarify on the safety, my ex's was the kind that slid up and down (and locked the slide), not the older Raven Arms style that slid forward and back. it wasn't that it was so light that it would just "fall down" on its own; it was simply that in a pocket or something, the resistance of the safety could be overcome by getting snagged on something or by being bumped/pushed by a hard object. I *think* the factory manual recommended carrying without a round in the chamber and chambering a round when ready to fire, but it's been many years since I looked at it. I am pretty sure it didn't have a passive firing pin safety, as it was designed to be carried unchambered.

I have to say that it was 100% reliable (no failures of any kind), and my ex shot hers quite a bit. It was also (surprisingly) very accurate for its size, a consequence of the fixed barrel and tiny sights (very precise, but slow to acquire). Fit and finish was rather good; it wasn't sloppily made, just very bulky for its caliber and capacity.

Rmbha · October 27, 2016, 08:39 PM

So if there was a bullet in the chamber it has to be cocked by pulling the slide to fire? (I'm a chick so I don't know! sorry)

Rmbha · October 27, 2016, 08:45 PM

ok. I must be talking about the older one cause it has the slide safety.

benEzra · October 27, 2016, 08:48 PM

No, if there was a round chambered then putting the safety off and pulling the trigger would fire it. Pulling the slide back to chamber a round also cocks the gun, so as soon as the slide closes then it's ready to fire if the safety is off and the trigger is pulled.

What my ex did was to make super sure it was unloaded (magazine out, chamber empty), then just insert a full magazine but not chamber a round. If she needed it, she'd pull the slide back to chamber a round, making it ready to fire, and I think the safety had to be off in order to chamber a round on hers. I think the older ones allowed the slide to be pulled back with the safety on, but I have never handled one so I don't know.

If you want something that can be safely carried with a round in the chamber, you could look at a Beretta Bobcat or Tomcat, or a Kel-Tec P32, which have additional safeties to make them drop-safe with a chambered round, and the Beretta also has a safety that's a little harder to disengage. But the Raven is a solid little gun for those on a budget.

Rmbha · October 27, 2016, 08:52 PM

thank you.
Does it makes sense that someone would have a bullet in the chamber, the safety accidentally turn off and accidentally fire it?

benEzra · October 27, 2016, 09:05 PM

It could happen, I suppose, especially if they were carrying in a pocket or purse with other stuff in it (big no-no), rather than in a protective holster or protected compartment of something. Something would still need to pull the trigger though, whether that be a negligently placed finger, something in the pocket/purse, or bumping up against something. It's hard to say without knowing the details of a particular incident.

benEzra · October 27, 2016, 09:16 PM

To add to that, there are four basic rules of gun safety:

(1) Always treat a gun as if it is loaded
(2) Never allow it to point in an unsafe direction (such as at yourself or other people)
(3) Keep your finger off the trigger until actually about to shoot
(4) Always be sure of your target and what is behind it

Most accidental discharges involve somebody pulling the trigger when they didn't actually intend to shoot. Sometimes that happens because somebody "thought it was unloaded" and consciously pulled the trigger, but expected a click and got a bang (see Rule 1). Or somebody was resting their finger on the trigger when they weren't actually trying to fire a shot, and accidentally put enough pressure on it to fire the gun (see Rule 3).

I have read about a couple of cases where a foreign object actually pulled the trigger, e.g. the drawstring of a jacket got into the trigger guard as the owner was holstering the gun, and the drawstring pulled the trigger as the gun was holstered. I can also see how a gun carried unprotected in a pocket and bumped up against seat belt buckles, table edges, etc. could have the trigger pulled by that contact. It would require a chain of events to disengage the safety and pull the trigger, but that possibility would make me leery of carrying a single-action gun cocked in a pocket unless it was in a rigid holster that protected the trigger and safety, and was designed for that mode of carry.

Radny97 · October 27, 2016, 11:28 PM

I have one with the slide safety that I inherited from my grandma. I won't carry it. The gun was unfired when I inherited it and was NIB. Yet the safety is so loose that it can be disengaged simply by shaking it or tucking it into a pocket. It can also be accidentally re-engaged just by adjusting your grip between shots. Plus the single action trigger is very light. Because of this the gun is just plain unsafe to carry. I won't do it.
I agree about accuracy and reliability though. I've put about 2-300 rounds through it. No misfires and will group on a dinner plate at 25 yards.
Honestly though, they are junk guns. I only keep mine because it was my grandmothers.

peggysue · October 29, 2016, 04:53 PM

We need to ban all cheapo guns to save the children...start with Hi-Point.

joey.losurdo · October 30, 2016, 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rmbha

thank you.

Does it makes sense that someone would have a bullet in the chamber, the safety accidentally turn off and accidentally fire it?

Sounds like you are a lawyer.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

benEzra · October 30, 2016, 10:05 PM

Quote:

Sounds like you are a lawyer.

That may be an accurate assessment. There were identical threads started on several other gun forums.

http://www.bing.com/search?q=%2B%22R...&sc=0-25&sp=-1

Fishbed77 · October 31, 2016, 04:48 PM

Quote:

I think it will hit a dinner plate at 25yds.

Hate on it all you want (I for one will not buy potmetal guns), but the one time I shot my brother's friend's Raven, it had a surprisingly good trigger and was pretty dang accurate.

RickB · October 31, 2016, 04:52 PM

Good info here: http://jtjersey.com/Raven/raven.htm

Seems like you could have an extensive collection of them for $500.

benEzra · November 2, 2016, 05:34 PM

Quote:

the one time I shot my brother's friend's Raven, it had a surprisingly good trigger and was pretty dang accurate.

That was my experience as well.

October 23, 2016, 03:39 PM	#1
Rmbha Junior Member Join Date: October 23, 2016 Posts: 7	Raven Arms Safety on/off Could someone tell me if a Raven Arms .25 caliber manufactured before 1996 had a slide or push up safety? Thank you.

October 23, 2016, 04:38 PM	#3
Rmbha Junior Member Join Date: October 23, 2016 Posts: 7	Raven Arms safety on/off I finally found it online. It was a slide. How easy would it be for it to accidentally turn off? With a rubber slip on grip wouldn't be harder because your hand wouldn't slide?

October 23, 2016, 09:56 PM	#6
Rmbha Junior Member Join Date: October 23, 2016 Posts: 7	Raven Arms safety on/off Thank you. I will look it up. I'm asking because someone told me it accidentally turned off on theirs.

October 27, 2016, 06:10 PM	#8
Rmbha Junior Member Join Date: October 23, 2016 Posts: 7	Raven Arms Safety on/off Do you know how hard the trigger pull was?

October 27, 2016, 08:33 PM	#9
benEzra Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2001 Location: Down East in NC Posts: 220	It was reasonably light, as I recall, since it is a single-action (e.g. it is fully cocked by cycling the slide, and the trigger just releases the sear). I couldn't find any technical data sheets on the MP-25, but I'm guessing it was roughly comparable to or slightly heavier than other single-action guns, e.g. Ruger Standard Model semiauto, or a single-action revolver. I saw a guesstimate of a 6-pound pull on another forum, which sounds close enough. To clarify on the safety, my ex's was the kind that slid up and down (and locked the slide), not the older Raven Arms style that slid forward and back. it wasn't that it was so light that it would just "fall down" on its own; it was simply that in a pocket or something, the resistance of the safety could be overcome by getting snagged on something or by being bumped/pushed by a hard object. I think the factory manual recommended carrying without a round in the chamber and chambering a round when ready to fire, but it's been many years since I looked at it. I am pretty sure it didn't have a passive firing pin safety, as it was designed to be carried unchambered. I have to say that it was 100% reliable (no failures of any kind), and my ex shot hers quite a bit. It was also (surprisingly) very accurate for its size, a consequence of the fixed barrel and tiny sights (very precise, but slow to acquire). Fit and finish was rather good; it wasn't sloppily made, just very bulky for its caliber and capacity. Last edited by benEzra; October 27, 2016 at 08:39 PM.

October 23, 2016, 04:32 PM	#2
745SW Senior Member Join Date: August 25, 2011 Location: California Posts: 776	I probably bought my Raven 25ACP in the late eighties. It has the crummy sliding safety. The safety will engage/turn-on before the mag empties. I think it will hit a dinner plate at 25yds.

October 23, 2016, 09:36 PM	#4
marine6680 Senior Member Join Date: July 24, 2012 Location: Parker, CO Posts: 4,594	Why are we asking?

October 27, 2016, 06:07 PM	#7
benEzra Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2001 Location: Down East in NC Posts: 220	My ex-wife's first gun was a Phoenix Arms Raven, purchased around 1994 or 1995 I think. It had a small sliding safety on the left side of the frame, if I remember correctly. It was fairly easy to move, so I could see it getting accidentally bumped to the off position if it were jostled a lot. Her philosophy for carrying it was to carry it chamber empty, safety off. That way she didn't have to worry about the safety getting bumped off. She eventually moved on to a Glock 26 when we could afford it, but that Raven gave her at lot of peace of mind when walking the dog at night and whatnot, when that was all she could afford.

October 27, 2016, 08:39 PM	#10
Rmbha Junior Member Join Date: October 23, 2016 Posts: 7	Raven Arms Safety on/off So if there was a bullet in the chamber it has to be cocked by pulling the slide to fire? (I'm a chick so I don't know! sorry)

October 27, 2016, 08:45 PM	#11
Rmbha Junior Member Join Date: October 23, 2016 Posts: 7	Raven Arms Safety on/off ok. I must be talking about the older one cause it has the slide safety.

October 27, 2016, 08:48 PM	#12
benEzra Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2001 Location: Down East in NC Posts: 220	No, if there was a round chambered then putting the safety off and pulling the trigger would fire it. Pulling the slide back to chamber a round also cocks the gun, so as soon as the slide closes then it's ready to fire if the safety is off and the trigger is pulled. What my ex did was to make super sure it was unloaded (magazine out, chamber empty), then just insert a full magazine but not chamber a round. If she needed it, she'd pull the slide back to chamber a round, making it ready to fire, and I think the safety had to be off in order to chamber a round on hers. I think the older ones allowed the slide to be pulled back with the safety on, but I have never handled one so I don't know. If you want something that can be safely carried with a round in the chamber, you could look at a Beretta Bobcat or Tomcat, or a Kel-Tec P32, which have additional safeties to make them drop-safe with a chambered round, and the Beretta also has a safety that's a little harder to disengage. But the Raven is a solid little gun for those on a budget. Last edited by benEzra; October 27, 2016 at 09:19 PM.

October 27, 2016, 08:52 PM	#13
Rmbha Junior Member Join Date: October 23, 2016 Posts: 7	Raven Arms Safety on/off thank you. Does it makes sense that someone would have a bullet in the chamber, the safety accidentally turn off and accidentally fire it?

October 27, 2016, 09:05 PM	#14
benEzra Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2001 Location: Down East in NC Posts: 220	It could happen, I suppose, especially if they were carrying in a pocket or purse with other stuff in it (big no-no), rather than in a protective holster or protected compartment of something. Something would still need to pull the trigger though, whether that be a negligently placed finger, something in the pocket/purse, or bumping up against something. It's hard to say without knowing the details of a particular incident.

October 27, 2016, 09:16 PM	#15
benEzra Senior Member Join Date: December 24, 2001 Location: Down East in NC Posts: 220	To add to that, there are four basic rules of gun safety: (1) Always treat a gun as if it is loaded (2) Never allow it to point in an unsafe direction (such as at yourself or other people) (3) Keep your finger off the trigger until actually about to shoot (4) Always be sure of your target and what is behind it Most accidental discharges involve somebody pulling the trigger when they didn't actually intend to shoot. Sometimes that happens because somebody "thought it was unloaded" and consciously pulled the trigger, but expected a click and got a bang (see Rule 1). Or somebody was resting their finger on the trigger when they weren't actually trying to fire a shot, and accidentally put enough pressure on it to fire the gun (see Rule 3). I have read about a couple of cases where a foreign object actually pulled the trigger, e.g. the drawstring of a jacket got into the trigger guard as the owner was holstering the gun, and the drawstring pulled the trigger as the gun was holstered. I can also see how a gun carried unprotected in a pocket and bumped up against seat belt buckles, table edges, etc. could have the trigger pulled by that contact. It would require a chain of events to disengage the safety and pull the trigger, but that possibility would make me leery of carrying a single-action gun cocked in a pocket unless it was in a rigid holster that protected the trigger and safety, and was designed for that mode of carry.

October 27, 2016, 11:28 PM	#16
Radny97 Senior Member Join Date: July 8, 2015 Posts: 1,021	I have one with the slide safety that I inherited from my grandma. I won't carry it. The gun was unfired when I inherited it and was NIB. Yet the safety is so loose that it can be disengaged simply by shaking it or tucking it into a pocket. It can also be accidentally re-engaged just by adjusting your grip between shots. Plus the single action trigger is very light. Because of this the gun is just plain unsafe to carry. I won't do it. I agree about accuracy and reliability though. I've put about 2-300 rounds through it. No misfires and will group on a dinner plate at 25 yards. Honestly though, they are junk guns. I only keep mine because it was my grandmothers.

October 29, 2016, 04:53 PM	#17
peggysue Junior member Join Date: May 20, 2014 Posts: 1,835	We need to ban all cheapo guns to save the children...start with Hi-Point.

October 31, 2016, 04:52 PM	#21
RickB Senior Member Join Date: March 1, 2000 Location: Boise, ID Posts: 8,518	Good info here: http://jtjersey.com/Raven/raven.htm Seems like you could have an extensive collection of them for $500. __________________ Runs off at the mouth about anything 1911 related on this site and half the time is flat out wrong.