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Old April 2, 2007, 07:23 PM   #1
L_Killkenny
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Empty Holster Self-Defense

The title sounds downright crazy doesn't it? And too tell the truth it most likely is but bear with me.

Iowa is not a "shall issue" state and in my county it's almost imposible to get a CCW. And to tell you the truth, 90% of the time I don't think I would carry even if I had one (I would always have one handy in the truck though). Also, if I understand Iowa law, a handgun, even unloaded, can't be in the passenger compartment and must ride in back unless you have a CCW.

I was talking to a construction worker the other day that worked on the road for years doing pipeline work and they (he and his fellow workers) just threw an empty holster on the dash when working in a bad location. Let's face it, bad guys go for easy targets and in altercations, 80-90% of the time just the appearence of a gun sends the BG packing. I'm thinkin (and so did the constuction worker(s)) that the appearence of an empty holster will make the BG have second thoughts either making him back completly away or give me time to flee. It "might" help and it's legal and cheap.

Here's the negatives I can think of:
BG might decide to go with "shoot first".
LEO's would at a minimum give you a bad time.

The "empty holster" defense is basically the same as putting "Home Protected by (whatever alarm co. is in your area)" or "Home Protected by S&W (Ruger, etc)" stickers on the doors of your house.

Opinions wanted and fire away,
LK
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Old April 2, 2007, 07:51 PM   #2
skeeter1
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Just off the top of my head, probably not a good idea. Advertising yourself and having nothing to back it up with? That can't be good. Carry a decent knife or even a clawhammer, and you're probably better off.
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Old April 2, 2007, 09:48 PM   #3
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I have to agree. Some BG's might see it as a challenge, and see if they can throw down faster than you can, which they will, since you're unarmed.
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Old April 2, 2007, 11:15 PM   #4
KALIFORNIST
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might not be a completely terrible idea.I have heard of recomendations for single women living alone to go down to the local salvation army and pic up a pair of used size 13 work boots and leave them by the front door.
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Old April 3, 2007, 12:18 PM   #5
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Sounds like a bad idea, the BG may think the weapon is in the glove compartment or somewhere else and break in just to look, especially if parked outside a bar or someplace where it is illeagal to carry.
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Old April 3, 2007, 12:38 PM   #6
Wild Horse
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I don't like the holster idea but the boot idea is cool.
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Old April 3, 2007, 04:48 PM   #7
Plate
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I have to agree with the majority that it's a bad idea.

A little OT but there appears to be some progress with CCW in Iowa right now. There is currently HF 120 and SF 107 on the table which standardizes some of the permit laws in Iowa. It still remains a may issue state, but the legistlation standardizes training requirements, sets a standard 3 year expiration, and adds reciprocity for all states that recognize IA permits. Granted it's not the whole package that my state(TN) and many others have, but it is a step in the right direction. I'm of the mindset that every step you can help make in the right direction makes the subsequent steps that much easier. Just trying to give you some awareness of things happening locally for you, maybe all is not yet lost.
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Old April 3, 2007, 06:37 PM   #8
chrisandclauida2
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this is a high risk high gain idea. same as using the threat of deadly force to stop physical force. the problem is what if someone calls your bluff. worse what if some punk decides to watch you follow you home and rob or break in looking for guns.

just some things to think about. your greatest weapon is your mind.
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Old April 3, 2007, 07:32 PM   #9
Deaf Smith
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I say if you can't legaly carry a gun, but you can legaly carry a spitten image of one, concealed, go ahead, it's your arse.

I really havn't heard of any punks challenging supposedly armed people. In fact, has anyone here known of an actual case where a punk did that? Has anyone heard of punks following armed people back home to break into their houses?

As long as it's concealed, well it's concealed, right? If you are backed in a corner, sans guns, and say, "stop, go away", will that not be more effective with your had on what everyone swears is a gun? As Capone said, "A gun and a smile will get you more than just a smile".

Sure they might call your bluff, but then without the gun there isn't even a bluff. Wonderful, isn't it?

I say if he want's to pack the fake gun, legaly, pack it. Just keep in mind it is a fake gun and I wouldn't pull it unless I was backed up to a wall.

So it's your arse Cochise.
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Old April 3, 2007, 07:46 PM   #10
DeathRodent
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I think the empty holster idea has merit.

I had a car towed out of my parking space one night - I remember the tow truck guy mentioning that there was a Gold's Gym gym bag in the back seat and that he sure hoped he could get the car out of there before some big weightlifter guy showed up.

Found out later the car belonged to a small asian woman. Same sort of thing tho - don't mess with this car cause it belongs to a big guy.
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Old April 3, 2007, 09:55 PM   #11
L_Killkenny
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Lot's of different point of veiw. Let me add I wouldn't ride around with it on the dash all the time and it would never sit in veiw when I'm not in the truck. I might toss it on the dash when I thought it might help. It might be when I get in the car or if I feel threatened while already in route (stopped at light, stuck in traffic, truck broke down etc.)

A couple weeks ago a guy posted about pulling his CCW on a man requesting a cigerette in a bad neighborhood. It was generally thought that he was to fast in pulling his gun. Let's take that scenario but instead of pulling a gun we throw an empry holster on the dash. What would be going thru the mind of the possible BD?

Over-all I think ChrisandClaudia2 summed it up the best, High Risk-High Reward. Like I said in my original post, BG might decide to get his licks in first.


Deaf Smith: I don't know where you got the idea that my post included a "fake" gun. But that is a natural progresion of the "empty holster" defense. If someone opts to use a fake gun be forewarned, Don't go around pointing it at just anyone. Treat it like a real CCW because if you brandish a fake gun the penalty is the same as if you had a real one.

What about "fake guns" for defense in areas where CCW is not allowed? If I remember correctly it worked well for Dillinger for a jail break.

LK

Edited to add: All of this is just brainstorming and I have no intentions of trying the "empty holster" defense at this time.
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Old April 4, 2007, 03:03 AM   #12
chris in va
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Similar to a blinking red security light on the dash.
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Old April 4, 2007, 07:15 PM   #13
Deaf Smith
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Lk,

I figure if you have a empty holster, well put something in it. As long as it's not against the law. There are some REAL good spitten image non-shooting guns out there, and that way they won't see an empty holster (if they see anything at all.)
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Old April 5, 2007, 12:31 AM   #14
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I'd be concerned with the legality ...

... for in California, it is my understanding that even reaching under your shirt, as though you have a gun, when really you do not, can be labeled 'Brandishing', which I think might be a felony out this way. Best check it out.
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Old April 5, 2007, 10:41 PM   #15
Deaf Smith
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And if you are just scratching your, uh, groin? Is that brandishing or flashing or what?

Funny how California has all these laws yet all that crime. Don't criminals obey laws over there?
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Old April 6, 2007, 11:58 AM   #16
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as for the red LED on the dash? My wife had her car looted last week, in the driveway. The bastard stole her Sirius satellite radio and the remote. The car has a light that comes on 30 seconds after ya get out. it sure didnt stop these little thieves. The radio is nogood, as it needs registered to have it turned on, and we reported it stolen in the AM.
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