Gun lubricants - again - Page 2

drcohen · February 26, 2001, 07:36 PM

ANY oil, as opposed to grease, inherently attracts material - sand, dust, dirt, salt, copper buildup, etc. - you don't want that on or in your gun.

TW-25B lubricant protectant does an amazing job at repelling material. The US military has tested it and selected for quite a few weapons programs, and its used by quite a few firearm manufacturers.

Bestdefense.com sells it, as well as it's oil version under the Kleen-Bore label on the site.

MOBIL-1 is great for cars. Not small arms with very different performance requirements.

PKAY · February 26, 2001, 08:09 PM

Curuzer and George, thank you both for your enlightened dialogue. The interesting thing about this subject is that some of us clean and lubricate our guns more than others following a round of shooting. For instance, when at the range, I shoot 300 rounds minimum at one sitting from any one gun (revolver or pistol except for the .454 Casull). Shooting that many rounds in one given time period tends to heat things up pretty well. I have been using a combination of Militech synthetic and 20 wt. motor oil in one to one concentration; and this only because an IPSC competitor and gunsmith friend recommended it. It seems to work very well. I usually remove the side plate of the revolvers after every other shooting session, thoroughly clean with WD-40 (I know, I know), and blow it dry with compressed air. Then I re-lube with the combo above and reassemble. It seems to have worked swimmingly and no malfs. What say you gentlemen regarding this regimen? More importantly, is there any harm in following it?

Curuzer · February 27, 2001, 10:29 AM

Drcohen,

I'll tell you one thing, what the gun industry needs are lubricant standards like the SAE has for cars. That way we keep wackos from making claims they cannot substantiate.

PKAY (or is it butter),

Why do you choose to mix 25w oil with your Militec? Interesting regimen. Any particularly important 25w oil brand?

[Edited by Curuzer on 02-28-2001 at 10:01 AM]

Charmedlyfe · February 27, 2001, 11:05 AM

I've never seen a weapon fail because it was too clean. If a lube works for you, and you acknowledge any quirks in the product you use (I use Tetra grease at high friction points on top of the EEZOX over the whole gun), then go with what you want. For those who carry ALL THE TIME in all kinds of weather, a better corrosion protection package is more important than lubricity. A comp shooter who shoots a great deal indoors or in nice weather only may not need as much corrosion protection, but need greater lubricity.

Go with what fits your needs. Yeah, I love EEZOX. It cleans well, and since I started using it, no trunk gun has picked up a speck of rust. Corrosion protection is critical to me (a rusty gun is NOT a happy gun),so I go with what is best in that area. Some people just like the 'wet look', so they use greasy oils. Just look at what you need, then focus on products that fit that need. Try more than one.......you never know what you might find around the corner.

PKAY · February 27, 2001, 11:29 AM

Curuzer, I think the mix has something to do with the heat generated after "n" number of rounds, but it could be my friend is "stretching" the Militech. Don't know. Anyway, it's cheap and it works. The Militech is expensive, $20 for a small bottle.

As for "is it butter," would margarine work as a gun lube? It's synthetic.

JiminCA · February 27, 2001, 08:16 PM

check out this thread.

http://www.1911forum.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000188.html

As an engineer, I just don't see particularly difficult requirements for a lube in semi-autos. Just my opinion. See the thread for more discussion.

Curuzer · February 27, 2001, 10:19 PM

JiminCA,

Thanks for the link, good stuff. I would [minimally] disagree on only two points, first, unlike engines, guns are not continuously lubricated and their oil is not continuously filtered. As such, the lubricant used should have better initial adsorption so it hangs on better and maintains a good film as it is sheered by the slide going back and forth. Second, there are a ton of wackos trying to sell snake oil into this market - some of that snake oil is actually harmful to weapons. In principal, then, I think you and I agree that "keep it simple" should be the approach - use well accepted lubricants and stay away from the "new age" stuff from low/no reputation guys (particularly if their message is shrill).

PKAY, I am not a believer in using chlorinated paraffins (e.g. Militec) for lubrication. The automotive market has generally phased them out in favor of newer technologies. That is not to say that they are necessarily bad either. I am experimenting with synthetics and siloxanes, and generally believe that a good synthetic (perhaps with Teflon) is all it takes. Good luck.

Curuzer · February 28, 2001, 09:59 AM

JiminCA,

I was actually supercharged by your post and did some research on synthetics. Mobil 1 a polyalphaolefin synthetic (PAO), while Amsoil and Castrol are based on synthetic esters. Amsoil is THE original synthetic brand, Mobil 1 was the first PAO, while Castrol has done very well in developing their own proprietary synthetic esters.

Synthetic lubricant molecules can be designed to have polarity to bond with the base metal (so that they form the elusive thin film on metal and don't flow away). They also don't REACT with the metal and don't create nasty byproducts. They are superb lubricants compared to other chemistries out there.

There are a ton of studies done on the differences between polyalphaolefins and synthetic esters. In general, I believe there is a very tiny advantage in PAOs over synthetic esters, but not enough in my opinion to give one up over another.

Now, which should we use? First, if you are already using Mobil 1, Amsoil, Castrol, or another synthetic, and like it, DON'T CHANGE based on my comments. Second, there are some great GUN SPECIFIC products on the market that are synthetic (e.g. Castrol/Hoppes - syn-ester; Break-free - PAO). I like Castrol/Hoppes, but have not tried Break-free. I also like Castrol/Hoppes because it has a very good corrosion protectant (a napthalene sulfonate). Engine oils contain all sorts of stabilizers and additives which, in principle, don't harm your gun. If you like, I would recommend Mobil 1 because it uses PAO chemistry. Which viscosity? Heck if I know. Find a viscosity that stays put. Many people recommend a 15w-30. BTW, I wish Mobil1 would offer a gun specific product.

Finally, both Mobil 1 and Amsoil are producing synthetic ester/PAO blends in order to get the best of both worlds. I'm not ready to discuss whether these are any better than one or the other.

What about other lubricants out there? They may be good products. I would favor synthetic over petroleum based, and am not a proponent of any other new-fangled chemistries. Regarding siloxanes (Eezox? for example), I think they are superb anti-corrosives, and pretty good lubricants. Great stuff if you frequently leave your guns in storage for long periods of time.

PS: Hope this stuff is helpful, I have other things I could be doing

[Edited by Curuzer on 02-28-2001 at 11:13 AM]

Master Blaster · March 1, 2001, 03:21 PM

Here is my two cents from my limited personal experience.
I use Castrol synthetic. I use it on my model 41 .22 and on my Kimber Custom Target. I shoot once per week 1-200 rounds. Some times its a couple of weeks between sessions.
I clean after about every 100-200 rounds. The Castrol synthetic stays put between range sessions while the gun is stored (after cleaning) and it stays put while I am shooting. I used to use hoppes oil and it would runn off the slide rails while the gun was stored for a couple of weeks necessitating a relube before shooting. Castrol or Mobil synthetic are tested on a wide range of metal aloys remember engines can have a block made out of aluminum alloy and a piston made from steel alloy. Engines have much closer tollerances than firearms and wider operating temperatures.

In my OPINION Grease of any kind is not a good firearm lubricant, it holds dirt and creates a grinding compound. You will note that grease is usually used in sealed assemblies, like wheel bearings, contamination with water or dirt require the replacement of the grease so the joint or bearing is not destroyed by the contaminant. I used grease on my glock 26 and it collected alot of lint and dirt while riding in a holster. I replace with Castrol and the problem is much less than it was.

Put some grease on you car door hinge or garagedoor track and check out all of the crap that gets attracted to it and stuck in it. Never use grease on a firearm.

Oil flows and contaminants are not held against the bearing surfaces.

JUST My opinion

John Forsyth · March 1, 2001, 04:18 PM

OK, I am going to throw anothr lubricant into the fray. I use dextron type automatic transmission fluid. My guns are stainless and have had no problems at all. I know another shooter that uses STP oil additive mixed with graphite. Its his home brew. It is slicker than you know what.

Drundel · May 19, 2001, 12:40 AM

Cruzier e-mail me about yoru comment on hkpro and miltec.

Anyone heard of http://www.slip2000.com/
?

KODB · May 20, 2001, 09:25 AM

From earlier in the thread I was relaying the in-progress work with using Sentry Solutions stuff with 2 BHPs. I have one still running 100% on the Sentry, but my wife's gun I have abandoned and am now using Mobil1 5W30 based on the above comments. The gun ran fine for me on the Sentry but she limpwrists ever so slightly and it was being problematic. With the Mobil 1 she's (both gun and wife) flawless. I suspect that the Sentry stuff is adequate but not phenomenal lubrication and that it makes the gun more sensitive to limpwristing induced failures.

The other BHP is now a few thousand rounds without a hiccup on Sentry stuff.

FWIW, more data points for all.

Cruzer: have you ever tried out the Sentry stuff?

Regards,

Bob

Clayton Hufford · May 20, 2001, 01:00 PM

The Sentry line of lubricants are molybdenum disulfide, and provide almost no corrosion protection. Dri-Slide, a mil-spec dry lube which is also moly, contains rust inhibitors and is less expensive, although it doesn't dry quite as fast as Smooth-Kote. Dry lubricants do not attract dirt or dust like wet lubes, but they do not lubricate or protect as well, which is why Sentry recommends a grease for high wear areas, and a rust preventative where needed.
The thing with using motor oil is, they were designed to be used in a closed assembly i.e. an engine, so they attract dirt and debris like mad. No problem for a gun in the closet, but big trouble for a gun that is carried daily.If you are using motor oil on your carry gun, check it daily for excess dust/debris.
I have also heard that Mobil 1 and several other brands marketing "Full Synthetic" are not actually %100 synthetic. Apparantly there is a difference. Pennzoil markets a %100 synthetic oil which is just that. Diffrences between the two names "full" and "%100"?
Several new companies, like Mpro7, are marketing nothing more than a hospital grade machine oil as the end-all solution to all our lubricant needs.
The bottom line is any oil will work-it's not what you use, but how often you use it. I've got a whole box full of wonder lubes that I have tested over the last 5 years, and I cannot tell much difference between most of them as far as lubricity. Most notable is the fact that the majority of these new products do not protect well from corrosion. Break-Free CLP, which has been around for over twenty years, is the best do-all product, and rust preventative that I have ever tested. Another excellent product is Corrosion X, which is a better lubricant than Break-Free CLP, and almost as good at preventing rust.
http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com (best price on Break-Free)
http://www.corrosionx.com
Russack Chemicals(Dri-Slide)
1-800-231-6901

drcohen · May 20, 2001, 06:11 PM

Funny. You guys mention every recipe under the sun except the stuff that is getting spec'd in to a long list of US military weapons programs - TW25B - which is replacing the old incumbant, CLP - LSAT, whatever. find it, try it, you'll see... and none of those formulas prevents rust and saltwater corrosion like 25. They don't.

Clayton Hufford · May 20, 2001, 08:55 PM

I can tell you without a doubt that CLP will never be replaced by MIL COMM TW-25B. It is spec'd on some weapons systems, most notably the GAU-2B/A(M134) GE minigun, but it will not be used by artillery, armor, or infantry for all weapons. Try punching tubes with TW-25B! CLP is a multi-purpose product, TW-25B is not. The U.S. Military uses many different lubricants, for different purposes. There are also different contractors. The main contractor for lubricants is Royal Lubricants(ROYCO), and has been since the Vietnam war. The military looks for a product that meets the needs at hand, and a company that can deliver it for the lowest price, i.e. "made by the lowest bidder."

Master Blaster · May 21, 2001, 08:06 AM

drcohen,

Do you have any interest besides tw25B? It seems every time there is a thread remotely related to lubrication you show up with a big plug for tw-25b.

Do you own the company?

LIProgun · May 21, 2001, 09:08 AM

When I ran my tests, TW-25B was simply not as good a rust preventative as other products, including Break Free and Eezox. It was clearly good, and better than several others, but not the best.

That said, I still like TW-25B for certain applications. But I *know* drcohen is incorrect in asserting that nothing prevents rust and saltwater corrosion like TW-25B.

And as for replacing CLP, I agree that TW-25B is unlikely to replace it for most military applications. For one thing, TW-25B is not a proper solvent, where as CLP is an excellent powder solvent.

johnbt · May 21, 2001, 10:21 AM

For pocket carry I use TW-25B because the dry finish doesn't attract lint and grit. But then the gun is finished in hard chrome so rust prevention isn't an issue. And I don't sell the stuff on the web.

John

char923 · May 21, 2001, 12:19 PM

What about using Militec-1

PKAY · May 21, 2001, 01:28 PM

Char923, I've used Militech and a combo of Militech and 20 wt. motor oil (recommended by an IPSC member and gunsmith). It works fine. However, after following a number of threads and discussions on this BB and others (1911), I have come to the conclusion that you should use whatever works for you. If you clean and lube your guns often, you can use just about any good gun lube or Mobil 1. If you store your guns away without benefit of dessicant and don't shoot them often, you may want to use something that is a proven corrosion prentative. That's why I just made up my own brew mentioned above in an earlier post. Boy, is it slick!

Matt VDW · May 21, 2001, 04:10 PM

It's nice to get some information on the actual chemistry of these lubes for a change.

I'd like to get some information on the following products:

Marvel Mystery Oil

Wilson's Ultimalube

Kroil

LIProgun · May 22, 2001, 08:51 AM

johnbt, I agree with the reason why you like TW-25B. That was one of the applications I was speaking about above. I particularly like it for lubing pistol magazines, as it can be wiped dry and still provide excellent lubrication and good corrosion resistance, while not attracting/holding lint, grit, powder residue, etc.

Clayton Hufford · May 22, 2001, 11:36 AM

I just tested three motor oils lastnight in the rain, Pennzoil Synthetic 10W-30, Castrol Syntec 5W-30, and Mobil 1 15W-50. All three failed to protect bare 1095 and 4140 steel in moderate rainfall for more than three hours. Marine Tuf-Cloth and Corrosion X protected until this morning when the rain stoppped. I highly recommend that you test what you use, and find out for yourself what works. Manufacturer's lab tests and far-fetched claims are far from the real world.

Romulus · May 22, 2001, 12:31 PM

If we're talking corrosion protection, even petroleum jelly would work - a main ingredient in Cosmoline. But as far as lubrication is concerned, Curuzer has made a solid case for polyalphaolefin synthetics. And thanks for the heads-up on Militech, Curuzer...

Now I'll have to slog through that gallon of CLP before switching to Mobil 1

Cruzer · May 23, 2001, 10:55 PM

Matt VDW,

Here is some info on Kroil. Real nasty stuff. Contains ethylene glycol monobutyl ether (quite a mouthful) which is pretty nasty stuff. Here is an MSDS (note that you should be using a respirator, and goggles, and gloves when your using this stuff (why??).

http://hazard.com/msds/mf/misc/kroil.html

Drundel,

I trust you have been reading my posts both on hkpro and here and most of your questions on Militec have been answered. As you can tell, I ma not a Militec fan. Slip2000 sounds like a silicone/siloxane chemistry. Not bad if you favor corrosion resistance over lubrication. Generally, synthetics have better lubrication properties and wear resistance.

[Edited by Cruzer on 05-24-2001 at 12:29 AM]

February 26, 2001, 07:36 PM	#26
drcohen Member Join Date: February 22, 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 58	WHY NOT OIL ANY oil, as opposed to grease, inherently attracts material - sand, dust, dirt, salt, copper buildup, etc. - you don't want that on or in your gun. TW-25B lubricant protectant does an amazing job at repelling material. The US military has tested it and selected for quite a few weapons programs, and its used by quite a few firearm manufacturers. Bestdefense.com sells it, as well as it's oil version under the Kleen-Bore label on the site. MOBIL-1 is great for cars. Not small arms with very different performance requirements.

February 26, 2001, 08:09 PM	#27
PKAY Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 1999 Location: L.A., CA, USA Posts: 911	Curuzer and George, thank you both for your enlightened dialogue. The interesting thing about this subject is that some of us clean and lubricate our guns more than others following a round of shooting. For instance, when at the range, I shoot 300 rounds minimum at one sitting from any one gun (revolver or pistol except for the .454 Casull). Shooting that many rounds in one given time period tends to heat things up pretty well. I have been using a combination of Militech synthetic and 20 wt. motor oil in one to one concentration; and this only because an IPSC competitor and gunsmith friend recommended it. It seems to work very well. I usually remove the side plate of the revolvers after every other shooting session, thoroughly clean with WD-40 (I know, I know), and blow it dry with compressed air. Then I re-lube with the combo above and reassemble. It seems to have worked swimmingly and no malfs. What say you gentlemen regarding this regimen? More importantly, is there any harm in following it? __________________ Safe shooting - PKAY

February 27, 2001, 11:29 AM	#30
PKAY Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 1999 Location: L.A., CA, USA Posts: 911	Curuzer, I think the mix has something to do with the heat generated after "n" number of rounds, but it could be my friend is "stretching" the Militech. Don't know. Anyway, it's cheap and it works. The Militech is expensive, $20 for a small bottle. As for "is it butter," would margarine work as a gun lube? It's synthetic. __________________ Safe shooting - PKAY

March 1, 2001, 04:18 PM	#35
John Forsyth Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2000 Location: Tennessee Posts: 378	OK, I am going to throw anothr lubricant into the fray. I use dextron type automatic transmission fluid. My guns are stainless and have had no problems at all. I know another shooter that uses STP oil additive mixed with graphite. Its his home brew. It is slicker than you know what. __________________ John

May 19, 2001, 12:40 AM	#36
Drundel Senior Member Join Date: November 9, 2000 Location: Friendswood, TX Posts: 559	Cruzier e-mail me about yoru comment on hkpro and miltec. Anyone heard of http://www.slip2000.com/ ? __________________ Shotshell Information Page Texas A&M University Proud member of the Fighting Class of '00

February 27, 2001, 10:29 AM	#28
Curuzer Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2000 Posts: 114	Drcohen, I'll tell you one thing, what the gun industry needs are lubricant standards like the SAE has for cars. That way we keep wackos from making claims they cannot substantiate. PKAY (or is it butter), Why do you choose to mix 25w oil with your Militec? Interesting regimen. Any particularly important 25w oil brand? [Edited by Curuzer on 02-28-2001 at 10:01 AM]

February 27, 2001, 11:05 AM	#29
Charmedlyfe Junior member Join Date: October 11, 2000 Location: SC Posts: 799	I've never seen a weapon fail because it was too clean. If a lube works for you, and you acknowledge any quirks in the product you use (I use Tetra grease at high friction points on top of the EEZOX over the whole gun), then go with what you want. For those who carry ALL THE TIME in all kinds of weather, a better corrosion protection package is more important than lubricity. A comp shooter who shoots a great deal indoors or in nice weather only may not need as much corrosion protection, but need greater lubricity. Go with what fits your needs. Yeah, I love EEZOX. It cleans well, and since I started using it, no trunk gun has picked up a speck of rust. Corrosion protection is critical to me (a rusty gun is NOT a happy gun),so I go with what is best in that area. Some people just like the 'wet look', so they use greasy oils. Just look at what you need, then focus on products that fit that need. Try more than one.......you never know what you might find around the corner.

February 27, 2001, 08:16 PM	#31
JiminCA Senior Member Join Date: October 12, 2000 Posts: 115	check out this thread. http://www.1911forum.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000188.html As an engineer, I just don't see particularly difficult requirements for a lube in semi-autos. Just my opinion. See the thread for more discussion.

February 27, 2001, 10:19 PM	#32
Curuzer Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2000 Posts: 114	JiminCA, Thanks for the link, good stuff. I would [minimally] disagree on only two points, first, unlike engines, guns are not continuously lubricated and their oil is not continuously filtered. As such, the lubricant used should have better initial adsorption so it hangs on better and maintains a good film as it is sheered by the slide going back and forth. Second, there are a ton of wackos trying to sell snake oil into this market - some of that snake oil is actually harmful to weapons. In principal, then, I think you and I agree that "keep it simple" should be the approach - use well accepted lubricants and stay away from the "new age" stuff from low/no reputation guys (particularly if their message is shrill). PKAY, I am not a believer in using chlorinated paraffins (e.g. Militec) for lubrication. The automotive market has generally phased them out in favor of newer technologies. That is not to say that they are necessarily bad either. I am experimenting with synthetics and siloxanes, and generally believe that a good synthetic (perhaps with Teflon) is all it takes. Good luck.

February 28, 2001, 09:59 AM	#33
Curuzer Senior Member Join Date: August 26, 2000 Posts: 114	JiminCA, I was actually supercharged by your post and did some research on synthetics. Mobil 1 a polyalphaolefin synthetic (PAO), while Amsoil and Castrol are based on synthetic esters. Amsoil is THE original synthetic brand, Mobil 1 was the first PAO, while Castrol has done very well in developing their own proprietary synthetic esters. Synthetic lubricant molecules can be designed to have polarity to bond with the base metal (so that they form the elusive thin film on metal and don't flow away). They also don't REACT with the metal and don't create nasty byproducts. They are superb lubricants compared to other chemistries out there. There are a ton of studies done on the differences between polyalphaolefins and synthetic esters. In general, I believe there is a very tiny advantage in PAOs over synthetic esters, but not enough in my opinion to give one up over another. Now, which should we use? First, if you are already using Mobil 1, Amsoil, Castrol, or another synthetic, and like it, DON'T CHANGE based on my comments. Second, there are some great GUN SPECIFIC products on the market that are synthetic (e.g. Castrol/Hoppes - syn-ester; Break-free - PAO). I like Castrol/Hoppes, but have not tried Break-free. I also like Castrol/Hoppes because it has a very good corrosion protectant (a napthalene sulfonate). Engine oils contain all sorts of stabilizers and additives which, in principle, don't harm your gun. If you like, I would recommend Mobil 1 because it uses PAO chemistry. Which viscosity? Heck if I know. Find a viscosity that stays put. Many people recommend a 15w-30. BTW, I wish Mobil1 would offer a gun specific product. Finally, both Mobil 1 and Amsoil are producing synthetic ester/PAO blends in order to get the best of both worlds. I'm not ready to discuss whether these are any better than one or the other. What about other lubricants out there? They may be good products. I would favor synthetic over petroleum based, and am not a proponent of any other new-fangled chemistries. Regarding siloxanes (Eezox? for example), I think they are superb anti-corrosives, and pretty good lubricants. Great stuff if you frequently leave your guns in storage for long periods of time. PS: Hope this stuff is helpful, I have other things I could be doing [Edited by Curuzer on 02-28-2001 at 11:13 AM]

March 1, 2001, 03:21 PM	#34
Master Blaster Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: One of the original 13 Colonies Posts: 2,281	Here is my two cents from my limited personal experience. I use Castrol synthetic. I use it on my model 41 .22 and on my Kimber Custom Target. I shoot once per week 1-200 rounds. Some times its a couple of weeks between sessions. I clean after about every 100-200 rounds. The Castrol synthetic stays put between range sessions while the gun is stored (after cleaning) and it stays put while I am shooting. I used to use hoppes oil and it would runn off the slide rails while the gun was stored for a couple of weeks necessitating a relube before shooting. Castrol or Mobil synthetic are tested on a wide range of metal aloys remember engines can have a block made out of aluminum alloy and a piston made from steel alloy. Engines have much closer tollerances than firearms and wider operating temperatures. In my OPINION Grease of any kind is not a good firearm lubricant, it holds dirt and creates a grinding compound. You will note that grease is usually used in sealed assemblies, like wheel bearings, contamination with water or dirt require the replacement of the grease so the joint or bearing is not destroyed by the contaminant. I used grease on my glock 26 and it collected alot of lint and dirt while riding in a holster. I replace with Castrol and the problem is much less than it was. Put some grease on you car door hinge or garagedoor track and check out all of the crap that gets attracted to it and stuck in it. Never use grease on a firearm. Oil flows and contaminants are not held against the bearing surfaces. JUST My opinion

May 20, 2001, 09:25 AM	#37
KODB Member Join Date: June 2, 2000 Posts: 81	update From earlier in the thread I was relaying the in-progress work with using Sentry Solutions stuff with 2 BHPs. I have one still running 100% on the Sentry, but my wife's gun I have abandoned and am now using Mobil1 5W30 based on the above comments. The gun ran fine for me on the Sentry but she limpwrists ever so slightly and it was being problematic. With the Mobil 1 she's (both gun and wife) flawless. I suspect that the Sentry stuff is adequate but not phenomenal lubrication and that it makes the gun more sensitive to limpwristing induced failures. The other BHP is now a few thousand rounds without a hiccup on Sentry stuff. FWIW, more data points for all. Cruzer: have you ever tried out the Sentry stuff? Regards, Bob

May 20, 2001, 01:00 PM	#38
Clayton Hufford Member Join Date: December 10, 2000 Location: Arkansas Posts: 92	The Sentry line of lubricants are molybdenum disulfide, and provide almost no corrosion protection. Dri-Slide, a mil-spec dry lube which is also moly, contains rust inhibitors and is less expensive, although it doesn't dry quite as fast as Smooth-Kote. Dry lubricants do not attract dirt or dust like wet lubes, but they do not lubricate or protect as well, which is why Sentry recommends a grease for high wear areas, and a rust preventative where needed. The thing with using motor oil is, they were designed to be used in a closed assembly i.e. an engine, so they attract dirt and debris like mad. No problem for a gun in the closet, but big trouble for a gun that is carried daily.If you are using motor oil on your carry gun, check it daily for excess dust/debris. I have also heard that Mobil 1 and several other brands marketing "Full Synthetic" are not actually %100 synthetic. Apparantly there is a difference. Pennzoil markets a %100 synthetic oil which is just that. Diffrences between the two names "full" and "%100"? Several new companies, like Mpro7, are marketing nothing more than a hospital grade machine oil as the end-all solution to all our lubricant needs. The bottom line is any oil will work-it's not what you use, but how often you use it. I've got a whole box full of wonder lubes that I have tested over the last 5 years, and I cannot tell much difference between most of them as far as lubricity. Most notable is the fact that the majority of these new products do not protect well from corrosion. Break-Free CLP, which has been around for over twenty years, is the best do-all product, and rust preventative that I have ever tested. Another excellent product is Corrosion X, which is a better lubricant than Break-Free CLP, and almost as good at preventing rust. http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com (best price on Break-Free) http://www.corrosionx.com Russack Chemicals(Dri-Slide) 1-800-231-6901

May 20, 2001, 06:11 PM	#39
drcohen Member Join Date: February 22, 2001 Location: NJ Posts: 58	Real world Funny. You guys mention every recipe under the sun except the stuff that is getting spec'd in to a long list of US military weapons programs - TW25B - which is replacing the old incumbant, CLP - LSAT, whatever. find it, try it, you'll see... and none of those formulas prevents rust and saltwater corrosion like 25. They don't.

May 20, 2001, 08:55 PM	#40
Clayton Hufford Member Join Date: December 10, 2000 Location: Arkansas Posts: 92	I can tell you without a doubt that CLP will never be replaced by MIL COMM TW-25B. It is spec'd on some weapons systems, most notably the GAU-2B/A(M134) GE minigun, but it will not be used by artillery, armor, or infantry for all weapons. Try punching tubes with TW-25B! CLP is a multi-purpose product, TW-25B is not. The U.S. Military uses many different lubricants, for different purposes. There are also different contractors. The main contractor for lubricants is Royal Lubricants(ROYCO), and has been since the Vietnam war. The military looks for a product that meets the needs at hand, and a company that can deliver it for the lowest price, i.e. "made by the lowest bidder."

May 21, 2001, 08:06 AM	#41
Master Blaster Senior Member Join Date: October 11, 1999 Location: One of the original 13 Colonies Posts: 2,281	drcohen, Do you have any interest besides tw25B? It seems every time there is a thread remotely related to lubrication you show up with a big plug for tw-25b. Do you own the company?

May 21, 2001, 09:08 AM	#42
LIProgun Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2000 Location: Hudson Valley, NY Posts: 489	When I ran my tests, TW-25B was simply not as good a rust preventative as other products, including Break Free and Eezox. It was clearly good, and better than several others, but not the best. That said, I still like TW-25B for certain applications. But I know drcohen is incorrect in asserting that nothing prevents rust and saltwater corrosion like TW-25B. And as for replacing CLP, I agree that TW-25B is unlikely to replace it for most military applications. For one thing, TW-25B is not a proper solvent, where as CLP is an excellent powder solvent. __________________ MOLON LABE. - Leonidas of Sparta, 480 B.C.

May 21, 2001, 10:21 AM	#43
johnbt Senior Member Join Date: December 6, 1999 Location: Richmond, Virginia USA Posts: 6,004	For pocket carry I use TW-25B because the dry finish doesn't attract lint and grit. But then the gun is finished in hard chrome so rust prevention isn't an issue. And I don't sell the stuff on the web. John

May 21, 2001, 12:19 PM	#44
char923 Senior Member Join Date: February 18, 2000 Location: Anchorage AK Posts: 237	What about using Militec-1

May 21, 2001, 01:28 PM	#45
PKAY Senior Member Join Date: March 22, 1999 Location: L.A., CA, USA Posts: 911	Char923, I've used Militech and a combo of Militech and 20 wt. motor oil (recommended by an IPSC member and gunsmith). It works fine. However, after following a number of threads and discussions on this BB and others (1911), I have come to the conclusion that you should use whatever works for you. If you clean and lube your guns often, you can use just about any good gun lube or Mobil 1. If you store your guns away without benefit of dessicant and don't shoot them often, you may want to use something that is a proven corrosion prentative. That's why I just made up my own brew mentioned above in an earlier post. Boy, is it slick! __________________ Safe shooting - PKAY

May 21, 2001, 04:10 PM	#46
Matt VDW Senior Member Join Date: July 27, 1999 Posts: 1,315	It's nice to get some information on the actual chemistry of these lubes for a change. I'd like to get some information on the following products: Marvel Mystery Oil Wilson's Ultimalube Kroil

May 22, 2001, 08:51 AM	#47
LIProgun Senior Member Join Date: August 27, 2000 Location: Hudson Valley, NY Posts: 489	johnbt, I agree with the reason why you like TW-25B. That was one of the applications I was speaking about above. I particularly like it for lubing pistol magazines, as it can be wiped dry and still provide excellent lubrication and good corrosion resistance, while not attracting/holding lint, grit, powder residue, etc. __________________ MOLON LABE. - Leonidas of Sparta, 480 B.C.

May 22, 2001, 11:36 AM	#48
Clayton Hufford Member Join Date: December 10, 2000 Location: Arkansas Posts: 92	I just tested three motor oils lastnight in the rain, Pennzoil Synthetic 10W-30, Castrol Syntec 5W-30, and Mobil 1 15W-50. All three failed to protect bare 1095 and 4140 steel in moderate rainfall for more than three hours. Marine Tuf-Cloth and Corrosion X protected until this morning when the rain stoppped. I highly recommend that you test what you use, and find out for yourself what works. Manufacturer's lab tests and far-fetched claims are far from the real world.

May 22, 2001, 12:31 PM	#49
Romulus Senior Member Join Date: January 18, 2001 Location: Kettle Moraine country Posts: 897	If we're talking corrosion protection, even petroleum jelly would work - a main ingredient in Cosmoline. But as far as lubrication is concerned, Curuzer has made a solid case for polyalphaolefin synthetics. And thanks for the heads-up on Militech, Curuzer... Now I'll have to slog through that gallon of CLP before switching to Mobil 1

May 23, 2001, 10:55 PM	#50
Cruzer Senior Member Join Date: February 28, 2001 Posts: 235	Matt VDW, Here is some info on Kroil. Real nasty stuff. Contains ethylene glycol monobutyl ether (quite a mouthful) which is pretty nasty stuff. Here is an MSDS (note that you should be using a respirator, and goggles, and gloves when your using this stuff (why??). http://hazard.com/msds/mf/misc/kroil.html Drundel, I trust you have been reading my posts both on hkpro and here and most of your questions on Militec have been answered. As you can tell, I ma not a Militec fan. Slip2000 sounds like a silicone/siloxane chemistry. Not bad if you favor corrosion resistance over lubrication. Generally, synthetics have better lubrication properties and wear resistance. [Edited by Cruzer on 05-24-2001 at 12:29 AM]