Where to look for a used *Nice/Mint* Remington 1100? - Page 2

cdc · October 20, 2005, 04:38 PM

Hi Rick. Yes the Victor High Standard is a nice gun, nicely balanced, extremely accurate with a sweet trigger. I live in the East Bay (Antioch/Brentwood) and work in Pleasanton. I think that the majority of the use will be for trap. I will be from time to time shooting sporting clays and skeet also. You mentioned, "Parts do break from time to time with heavy shooting, but I've never had one break on me." What parts were you refering to? I have been told that the O-ring has to be replaced every 5-6 times you fully clean the gun, other then the O-ring what else needs attention?

Because of versatility I am seriously thinking about ordering a new 1100 Classic Trap next week and then purchasing a 28" and/or 26" VR rem choke barrel to go with the setup. This seems like the best Clay sports all around "one" gun for the money.

As a long time 1100 owner, what do you think of the above mentioned setup I am considering?

Best Regards,

cdc (Chris)

Ricky B · October 23, 2005, 11:50 PM

I like the setup you propose. Personally, I would go with the 28" barrel over a 26" barrel. IMO, if you do your job, the gun will do its part just fine. (The first part of that last sentence is the hard part.)

Supposedly the stock on my trap version of the 1100 (bought ca. 1982) is designed to shoot a bit high, as is customary with trap guns. That way you put the bead right under the target instead of obscuring it with the bead.

I assume that the trap classic would be designed the same way, but don't really know. If you're going to use one gun for more than one sport, you have to accept compromises, and a somewhat high-shooting gun for sporting clays and skeet is easier to live with than a flat-shooting gun for trap, particularly if most of your shooting will be trap. Of course, you have to try out the gun and chokes on a pattern board to see if what is supposed to be is in fact reality.

I've only replaced the O-ring once so far (I stopped shooting regularly around 1987 and have only recently resumed). I don't agree that you have to replace it every 5-6 times you fully clean the gun. You should probably carry a spare O-ring in your gun case so that if Murphy's law strikes, you're prepared. You can buy an ordinary O-ring from a hardware store (size 21, I am told) for less than a buck, and I just ordered a set of 6 Viton O-rings on eBay for $6.99 (including postage), which are supposedly the same as Remington sell for $5 each. Or for $5, you could just buy an original Remington O-ring, keep it with the gun, and not worrry about it.

Another part that I have heard breaks is the link. That part looks like somewhat like a tuning fork. Suppliers sell 1100 spare parts kits for competitors that contain the parts that usually break with heavy use, and you could look at those (firing pin and spring, forend support assembly, barrel seal, piston/piston seal assembly, “O” ring seal, extractor spring, plunger, extractor and link). The cost of the kit online is $69. Here is a link: http://www.shotgunsportsmagazine.com...n_beretta.html

But I would shoot the gun and worry about breakage if and when it happens. If you're not a heavy competitor, it may never happen. I would not invest in a spare parts kit until a need had been demonstrated. Save the money for that reloading machine that is lurking in your future.

--Rick

DHart · October 24, 2005, 12:05 AM

Ricky... thanks for the suggestions on the 1100 for these various activities.... (new 1100 owner).

cdc · October 24, 2005, 03:00 AM

Thanks so much for the info guys. Saturday morning I ended up buying a brand spanking new Beretta AL391 Teknys Gold Trap (12ga.) w/30" barrel. I debated over and over which gun to get. I was way confused and not sure enough to pull the trigger on a specific gun. The Remington 1100 Classic Trap was always on the top of my list, actually the 1100 Competition Target (not available until Spring of 2006) was #1 on the list even though I felt it was more then I wanted to spend.

Here is a pic of the Beretta AL391 Teknys Gold Trap:

I spent hours upon hours researching, way too much time, but did learn alot. I was fortunate enough to be able to shoot and examine several guns with differing actions and price ranges. I did not get to shoot an 1100 but did shoot an 11-87 Premier Target. I also was lucky enough to be able to speak to several very cool 95%+ shooters and competitors for about 2 hours.

I ended up spending much more then I originally wanted to and ended up buying a gun I never even knew existed. As an FYI here are the reasons I ended up buying a Beretta AL391 Teknys Gold Trap instead of a Remington 1100 Classic Trap:

* Every 95%+ competitor I spoke to recommended the 391. Not necessarily the top end competition trap model I purchased, just a 391 sporting or target model. These guys and gals either owned one, or told me, "if I was to start all over, the 391 is the gun I would buy". Some of these shooters were shooting dedicated trap guns from $4K to $14K.

* The Beretta 391 is one of the few semi-autos that can be outfitted with a recoil/hydrolic system. The Remington semi-autos will not support a recoil system, not enough room in the stock. By the way, only the Gra-coil system will work. Gra-coil system requires the least amount of space and can be fitted into the stock of a Beretta 391. This option is extremly important to me, I am recoil sensitive after awhile. Main reason I ruled out an O/U (the other is too pricey for the ones I liked).

* The Beretta 391 has a nicer trigger right out of the box. With some polishing, the 391 trigger is heaven!

* Very similar to the 1100 Competition Target I originally wanted.

* With a Mercury recoil reducer on the mag tube (basically weighing the gun down a bit strategically) the swing feels closer to the O/U then the Remington I shot.

* Suppose to be bullet proof if well kept.

* $500 more for mods/accessories (Fully adjustable Gra-Coil system, Angle Porting, Mercury front weight, Trigger Shoe, trigger polishing/tuning) and I have my complete dream trap gun. I will follow the advice that was given to me, "shoot the 391 for a bit then decide what to modify or change".

I wanted a gun that could be totally adjustable to fit me, swings and shoots smooth, can change the barrel to better suit a different discipline of shooting and have the lowest recoil possible. I have two James Russell books in-route to me (Trap Shooting Secrets and Precision Shooting: The Trap Shooter's Bible) and will soon be ready to learn how to shoot Trap!

cdc

DHart · October 24, 2005, 04:10 AM

cdc... congratulations on that gorgeous shotgun! I've heard nothing but good things about the 391's as well... I'm sure it'll serve you very well indeed. And thanks for sharing the results of your research!

cdc · October 24, 2005, 02:08 PM

DHart, thanks dude. I am stoked, have gotten over the sticker shock (even though I got a rippin deal) and can't wait to shoot the bad boy! Hey, I have a cool AGI video that goes over the breaking down of a 870, came in handy with good tips. Know of anything like the AGI video for a Beretta 391?

cdc

Ricky B · October 27, 2005, 01:55 AM

I join in the congratulations. I am sure the 391 will be a fine performer for you, and as a trap gun, it is probably a better choice for you (as a trap shooter) than the Rem 1100 competition model that is not yet available. I think the adjustable comb can be a big plus even between guns that are otherwise identical.

In terms of recoil, at the risk of sounding like I know more than I really do, gun fit and gun mount are two big factors in reducing felt recoil and reducing the risk of flinch. Get an expert to help you adust the comb and to help you learn exactly how to mount the gun. Then practice the mount until it becomes second nature, which will not only lead to reducing felt recoil because you automatically mount the gun correctly but will also lead to higher scores. A consistent mount is essential for high scores. (To understand this, imagine how accurate a rifle would be if its rear sight changed position from shot to shot.) Trap is fun, but it is more fun the more targets you break!

That takes care of felt recoil. In terms of reducing actual recoil, there are only two things you can do. One is to increase the weight of the gun, and the other is to reduce the payload (either in terms of velocity or mass). In other words, 2-3/4 dram eq. shells will produce less recoil than 3 dram eq. shells.

Under the laws of physics, recoil reducers can not reduce actual recoil except to the extent they add weight to the gun. Beyond adding weight, all they can do is reduce the perception of recoil. With a gas operated gun, properly fitted and properly mounted, shooting light target loads, I doubt very much that you will need a recoil reducer (and if you do, I doubt it will help). Right now, spend your money on ammo and range fees!

I looked at the AGI website but did not see anything on the Beretta. You can search for yourself and maybe find what a quick peek did not reveal.

http://www.americangunsmith.com/

One question for you. I have a friend shopping for a shotgun, and he will be considering the 391 among others. Where did you buy it, and did you get any kind of discount off list price?

--Rick

cdc · October 27, 2005, 04:58 AM

Ricky B, I agree with what you wrote, except to add that the less fatigued I will be the better off I will be. And I plan to do exactly what you wrote in the second paragraph. The payload I will be focusing on is 7 1/2 shot, 1 1/8oz, 3 dram. I want the maximum power load I can use at any distance. This way I can find the load/choke combo, pattern and then forget about that part of the equation.

Regarding your friend and where I purchased the AL391 Teknys Gold Trap. MSRP for the AL391 Teknys Gold Trap is $1895 + tax and fees. I paid $1500 out-the-door for it. The gun store is Andreotti Firearm Sales located in Castro Valley (Alameda County) and they are a Beretta Dealer. I know someone that has purchased many guns from the owner Dave Andreotti and referred me. I purchased the gun as new. The gun has had 175 rounds total put through it by Dave and a Beretta rep when they met at the Livermore Rod and Gun Club. Dave got a very good deal on several 391s because the rep was late (long story). Saturday when I purchased the gun Dave did have several other 391 in-stock and I am fairly sure he would be competitive with price. I only saw one other Teknys though and I think it was not a competition model. I did see at least 3 Urika 391.

Chris

October 23, 2005, 11:50 PM	#27
Ricky B Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2002 Posts: 251	I like the setup you propose. Personally, I would go with the 28" barrel over a 26" barrel. IMO, if you do your job, the gun will do its part just fine. (The first part of that last sentence is the hard part.) Supposedly the stock on my trap version of the 1100 (bought ca. 1982) is designed to shoot a bit high, as is customary with trap guns. That way you put the bead right under the target instead of obscuring it with the bead. I assume that the trap classic would be designed the same way, but don't really know. If you're going to use one gun for more than one sport, you have to accept compromises, and a somewhat high-shooting gun for sporting clays and skeet is easier to live with than a flat-shooting gun for trap, particularly if most of your shooting will be trap. Of course, you have to try out the gun and chokes on a pattern board to see if what is supposed to be is in fact reality. I've only replaced the O-ring once so far (I stopped shooting regularly around 1987 and have only recently resumed). I don't agree that you have to replace it every 5-6 times you fully clean the gun. You should probably carry a spare O-ring in your gun case so that if Murphy's law strikes, you're prepared. You can buy an ordinary O-ring from a hardware store (size 21, I am told) for less than a buck, and I just ordered a set of 6 Viton O-rings on eBay for $6.99 (including postage), which are supposedly the same as Remington sell for $5 each. Or for $5, you could just buy an original Remington O-ring, keep it with the gun, and not worrry about it. Another part that I have heard breaks is the link. That part looks like somewhat like a tuning fork. Suppliers sell 1100 spare parts kits for competitors that contain the parts that usually break with heavy use, and you could look at those (firing pin and spring, forend support assembly, barrel seal, piston/piston seal assembly, “O” ring seal, extractor spring, plunger, extractor and link). The cost of the kit online is $69. Here is a link: http://www.shotgunsportsmagazine.com...n_beretta.html But I would shoot the gun and worry about breakage if and when it happens. If you're not a heavy competitor, it may never happen. I would not invest in a spare parts kit until a need had been demonstrated. Save the money for that reloading machine that is lurking in your future. --Rick Last edited by Ricky B; October 26, 2005 at 10:20 PM.

October 20, 2005, 04:38 PM	#26
cdc Member Join Date: September 2, 2005 Posts: 92	Hi Rick. Yes the Victor High Standard is a nice gun, nicely balanced, extremely accurate with a sweet trigger. I live in the East Bay (Antioch/Brentwood) and work in Pleasanton. I think that the majority of the use will be for trap. I will be from time to time shooting sporting clays and skeet also. You mentioned, "Parts do break from time to time with heavy shooting, but I've never had one break on me." What parts were you refering to? I have been told that the O-ring has to be replaced every 5-6 times you fully clean the gun, other then the O-ring what else needs attention? Because of versatility I am seriously thinking about ordering a new 1100 Classic Trap next week and then purchasing a 28" and/or 26" VR rem choke barrel to go with the setup. This seems like the best Clay sports all around "one" gun for the money. As a long time 1100 owner, what do you think of the above mentioned setup I am considering? Best Regards, cdc (Chris)

October 24, 2005, 12:05 AM	#28
DHart Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 591	Ricky... thanks for the suggestions on the 1100 for these various activities.... (new 1100 owner).

October 24, 2005, 03:00 AM	#29
cdc Member Join Date: September 2, 2005 Posts: 92	Thanks so much for the info guys. Saturday morning I ended up buying a brand spanking new Beretta AL391 Teknys Gold Trap (12ga.) w/30" barrel. I debated over and over which gun to get. I was way confused and not sure enough to pull the trigger on a specific gun. The Remington 1100 Classic Trap was always on the top of my list, actually the 1100 Competition Target (not available until Spring of 2006) was #1 on the list even though I felt it was more then I wanted to spend. Here is a pic of the Beretta AL391 Teknys Gold Trap: I spent hours upon hours researching, way too much time, but did learn alot. I was fortunate enough to be able to shoot and examine several guns with differing actions and price ranges. I did not get to shoot an 1100 but did shoot an 11-87 Premier Target. I also was lucky enough to be able to speak to several very cool 95%+ shooters and competitors for about 2 hours. I ended up spending much more then I originally wanted to and ended up buying a gun I never even knew existed. As an FYI here are the reasons I ended up buying a Beretta AL391 Teknys Gold Trap instead of a Remington 1100 Classic Trap: * Every 95%+ competitor I spoke to recommended the 391. Not necessarily the top end competition trap model I purchased, just a 391 sporting or target model. These guys and gals either owned one, or told me, "if I was to start all over, the 391 is the gun I would buy". Some of these shooters were shooting dedicated trap guns from $4K to $14K. * The Beretta 391 is one of the few semi-autos that can be outfitted with a recoil/hydrolic system. The Remington semi-autos will not support a recoil system, not enough room in the stock. By the way, only the Gra-coil system will work. Gra-coil system requires the least amount of space and can be fitted into the stock of a Beretta 391. This option is extremly important to me, I am recoil sensitive after awhile. Main reason I ruled out an O/U (the other is too pricey for the ones I liked). * The Beretta 391 has a nicer trigger right out of the box. With some polishing, the 391 trigger is heaven! * Very similar to the 1100 Competition Target I originally wanted. * With a Mercury recoil reducer on the mag tube (basically weighing the gun down a bit strategically) the swing feels closer to the O/U then the Remington I shot. * Suppose to be bullet proof if well kept. * $500 more for mods/accessories (Fully adjustable Gra-Coil system, Angle Porting, Mercury front weight, Trigger Shoe, trigger polishing/tuning) and I have my complete dream trap gun. I will follow the advice that was given to me, "shoot the 391 for a bit then decide what to modify or change". I wanted a gun that could be totally adjustable to fit me, swings and shoots smooth, can change the barrel to better suit a different discipline of shooting and have the lowest recoil possible. I have two James Russell books in-route to me (Trap Shooting Secrets and Precision Shooting: The Trap Shooter's Bible) and will soon be ready to learn how to shoot Trap! cdc

October 24, 2005, 04:10 AM	#30
DHart Senior Member Join Date: February 23, 2005 Posts: 591	cdc... congratulations on that gorgeous shotgun! I've heard nothing but good things about the 391's as well... I'm sure it'll serve you very well indeed. And thanks for sharing the results of your research!

October 24, 2005, 02:08 PM	#31
cdc Member Join Date: September 2, 2005 Posts: 92	DHart, thanks dude. I am stoked, have gotten over the sticker shock (even though I got a rippin deal) and can't wait to shoot the bad boy! Hey, I have a cool AGI video that goes over the breaking down of a 870, came in handy with good tips. Know of anything like the AGI video for a Beretta 391? cdc

October 27, 2005, 01:55 AM	#32
Ricky B Senior Member Join Date: November 3, 2002 Posts: 251	I join in the congratulations. I am sure the 391 will be a fine performer for you, and as a trap gun, it is probably a better choice for you (as a trap shooter) than the Rem 1100 competition model that is not yet available. I think the adjustable comb can be a big plus even between guns that are otherwise identical. In terms of recoil, at the risk of sounding like I know more than I really do, gun fit and gun mount are two big factors in reducing felt recoil and reducing the risk of flinch. Get an expert to help you adust the comb and to help you learn exactly how to mount the gun. Then practice the mount until it becomes second nature, which will not only lead to reducing felt recoil because you automatically mount the gun correctly but will also lead to higher scores. A consistent mount is essential for high scores. (To understand this, imagine how accurate a rifle would be if its rear sight changed position from shot to shot.) Trap is fun, but it is more fun the more targets you break! That takes care of felt recoil. In terms of reducing actual recoil, there are only two things you can do. One is to increase the weight of the gun, and the other is to reduce the payload (either in terms of velocity or mass). In other words, 2-3/4 dram eq. shells will produce less recoil than 3 dram eq. shells. Under the laws of physics, recoil reducers can not reduce actual recoil except to the extent they add weight to the gun. Beyond adding weight, all they can do is reduce the perception of recoil. With a gas operated gun, properly fitted and properly mounted, shooting light target loads, I doubt very much that you will need a recoil reducer (and if you do, I doubt it will help). Right now, spend your money on ammo and range fees! I looked at the AGI website but did not see anything on the Beretta. You can search for yourself and maybe find what a quick peek did not reveal. http://www.americangunsmith.com/ One question for you. I have a friend shopping for a shotgun, and he will be considering the 391 among others. Where did you buy it, and did you get any kind of discount off list price? --Rick

October 27, 2005, 04:58 AM	#33
cdc Member Join Date: September 2, 2005 Posts: 92	Ricky B, I agree with what you wrote, except to add that the less fatigued I will be the better off I will be. And I plan to do exactly what you wrote in the second paragraph. The payload I will be focusing on is 7 1/2 shot, 1 1/8oz, 3 dram. I want the maximum power load I can use at any distance. This way I can find the load/choke combo, pattern and then forget about that part of the equation. Regarding your friend and where I purchased the AL391 Teknys Gold Trap. MSRP for the AL391 Teknys Gold Trap is $1895 + tax and fees. I paid $1500 out-the-door for it. The gun store is Andreotti Firearm Sales located in Castro Valley (Alameda County) and they are a Beretta Dealer. I know someone that has purchased many guns from the owner Dave Andreotti and referred me. I purchased the gun as new. The gun has had 175 rounds total put through it by Dave and a Beretta rep when they met at the Livermore Rod and Gun Club. Dave got a very good deal on several 391s because the rep was late (long story). Saturday when I purchased the gun Dave did have several other 391 in-stock and I am fairly sure he would be competitive with price. I only saw one other Teknys though and I think it was not a competition model. I did see at least 3 Urika 391. Chris