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Old April 20, 2013, 06:59 PM   #1
Beginner 1960
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I'm haveing trouble

Just started loading some 140gr. tfp that I got last week.I loaded about 6 of to try, they wouldn't chamber in my S&W686 or my sp101 but would in my colt.

The bullet mesured a little over .359 any thing I can do besides just shoot them in my colt?

They were supost to be .358 in dia.
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Old April 20, 2013, 08:43 PM   #2
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I'm guessing you are talking about a revolver? And are they 38 special or 357 magnums or am I way off?
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Old April 20, 2013, 08:51 PM   #3
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Yes they are all 357 mag. revolvers.

The bullets are from Missorui Bullet 18 BHN,if that helps?
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Old April 20, 2013, 09:29 PM   #4
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Just a long shot, but have you been firing 38 Specials in the Ruger and S&W? It'll prevent a 357 from chambering.

Also what is your OAL?
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Old April 20, 2013, 09:35 PM   #5
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No I've always just shot 357 in them,have always loaded down for 38 loads.

oal is1.590
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Old April 20, 2013, 09:40 PM   #6
chris in va
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Ok, my point is a 38 Special will leave a lead/carbon ring at the end of the cylinder, preventing a 357 from fully chambering.

I would shorten your OAL. Make a dummy round without powder or primer and find what OAL works.
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Old April 20, 2013, 09:43 PM   #7
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Quote:
Just a long shot, but have you been firing 38 Specials in the Ruger and S&W? It'll prevent a 357 from chambering.
Good call bro, I would not call that a long shot. Given the tiny bit of info we have to go on here... I'd say that's our most likely answer thus far.

For our new Beginner 1960, welcome! And help us to help you.
Include every bit of information that may be relevant.

The bullet is a bit of a mystery. Missouri does offer a 140 grain slug, he calls it a "TCFP", a "truncated cone flat point", but he's listing it at 12 BHN which makes it more of a cowboy action kind of slower-use slug, not something you'd load to balls-to-the-wall velocities. But you could -- and then see how well they work.

His site says he ships them at .358" diameter. Have you got a micrometer that gave you a sized measurement of .359" instead? If you are simply using a caliper, I wouldn't call that an exact science.

I doubt the sized diameter is what's causing the grief here anyway. Revolver chambers are...roomy, to say the least. Your stoppage is more likely due to some kind of COAL situation rather than a sized diameter issue.

In looking at the picture on the Missouri site, I'm going to suggest that you load those slugs so that you have a slight roll crimp right in to that crimp groove molded in to the bullet. Are you doing exactly that? Have you set up your seat/crimp die to do this? (sorry - we don't know the level of your handloading experience here)

What's the Colt revolver?
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Old April 20, 2013, 09:45 PM   #8
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When you say they wouldn't chamber, do you mean they wouldn't even start into the cylinder or do they stick some place else? It would help to know just where the trouble lies.
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Old April 20, 2013, 10:15 PM   #9
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Sorry guys if I didn't give much info, the shells will go all the way in except for about a eight of and inch in the smith and not quite so far in the Ruger.The clinder will not close.

The oal is 1.590,the bullet is the 357 zinger bhn18 think they call it the action series.

The colt is a TrooperMKIII,I bought it used,but bought the Smith and Ruger new so I know it hasn't had any 38's shot thu them.

Yes was useing a caliper to measure,I have a mike but it showed them being larger than.359 I think it was .3607

Forgive my spelling and grammer,I thank u for ur time and help
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Old April 20, 2013, 10:25 PM   #10
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I'm not certain this is going to help or not. I have had some tight cases with my Dan Wesson. Everyone of them had something in common. They were all fired in other people's revolvers before I got the brass. The sizing die I use doesn't re-size 100% of the case. The portion that is tight is the where the sizing die doesn't work at. This problem happened using jacketed bullets. I have not had any problems with brass that was only shot in my gun.
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Old April 20, 2013, 10:39 PM   #11
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Would useing 38/357 dies and not resizeing the whole case be a problem? Do I need to get a 357 only set of dies?

Are the holes in a revolver clinder tapered or straght? Sorry if I'm asking stupid questions.
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Old April 21, 2013, 12:30 AM   #12
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The cases are straight walled. The dies for .357 and .38 special normally are one in the same. The sizing die on my sets are tapered where the case enters. I have the die set to touch the shell plate on my press and that gives about 1/4" where the case isn't sized. I load on progressive presses. There may be a die that will size lower on the case. I don't have one and I don't know of one that will work. If you find this sizing thing is causing your problem you could just load for each gun. Mark the box and keep the brass separated for each one. You could also use different headstamps to keep it straight as well.

The cases I had trouble with just needed a little extra push to get them into the cylinder. Once I figured out why I had some trouble, I purchased some Starline brass and keep those separated from all the rest. Those have dropped in the cylinders easily everytime.

I shoot a lot of semi-auto pistol ammo and it seems the chamber size with them is more consistant than some revolvers might be.

An easy test to compare chamber sizes is to fire one round of new ammo or ammo loaded with a new case in each gun. Then take the fired case and see how loose or tight it is when you try to put it into the cylinder of the other guns.

Last edited by Misssissippi Dave; April 21, 2013 at 12:35 AM.
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Old April 21, 2013, 02:59 AM   #13
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Why would you not resize the entire case? A 38/357/357 max resizing die is a ring of metal or carbide. It doesn't know or care how much case length is pushed through it each time a case is sized. The closer you get it to the shell holder, the further down the case it will size. There is the radius at the mouth plus the thickness of the shell holder that prevent sizing all the way to the rim but it should not be an issue. Being that the problem you are having is with two different brands of revolver, if it is a sizing issue, it would suggest the die is not set correctly.

Drop resized cases in your ruger and your smith. Do they fully chamber? If yes, it is not a sizing issue. If no, it is a sizing issue.

Seat a bullet deeper in one of the problematic rounds. Does it seat further into the cylinder now? If yes, it is an OAL issue. If no, it is a crimp or bullet diameter issue and it's probably not a bullet diameter issue.

The chambers in the cylinders are the same diameter until they get to the forcing cone. Where exactly the forcing cone starts to reduce the diameter varies from gun to gun but should definitely be past the maximum brass length for your cartridge. In other words, if a resized case will go all the way in and if a round will go mostly into the cylinder, it is most likely that the bullet is hitting the forcing cone. Solution is to seat the bullet deeper.

If you want to get really crazy, slit the side of a case so you can push a bullet into it with light pressure. Start a bullet into it and then push it into your cylinder all the way. Pull it out and compare the OAL to what you are loading to.

Lots of ways to get where you need to be
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Old April 21, 2013, 06:47 AM   #14
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When all else fails, and it's not a OAL problem, try the Lee FCD. It pretty much guarantees a chamberable round. It's also possible you are crimping too much and distorting the case. A picture of your finished round would help.
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Old April 21, 2013, 07:27 AM   #15
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Thanks for thr Info guys going to get some coffey and hit the shop to see if I can get the problem fixed.
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Old April 21, 2013, 09:26 AM   #16
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Since you say you only use .357 cases, this won't apply to you.
But there are .357 dies that won't work with .38s.
The crimping part of the bullet seating die won't reach the mouth of the .38 cases, even with the die fully lowered.
It only says .357 on the die, not 38/357.
They're out there.
I have one.
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Old April 21, 2013, 02:28 PM   #17
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You may think I'm crazy but is there a possibility you have over crimped? I had a similar problem and it turned out I was overdoing the crimp. Once I decreased the crimp a bit, the problem went away. It drove me crazy till I realized what I had done.

I'm guessing the heavy crimp actually reshaped the bullet to a small degree, just enough to create the situation you describe.
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Old April 21, 2013, 05:40 PM   #18
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The description of them stopping 1/8" short of complete is a perfect match to the result of firing lead bullet .38 Special loads in the gun. The .38 Special case is about 1/8" shorter than the .357 case, so lead from gas bypass splatter starts to build up just where the .38 Special case ends, and will prevent a .357 case from chamber past that exact position when it has happened.

The solution is a thorough cleaning of the cylinder chambers. I like the Wipe Out product called NO-LEAD. You patch it in. Let it sit for an hour and patch out some crusty black stuff. The lead is gone.

Short of that, patch in some Kroil or PB Blaster or other penetrating oil and let it sit overnight. The next day, wrap a strand or two from a 100% copper scouring pad (check with a magnet; if it doesn't stick, you are OK), like a Chore Boy brand, around an undersized cleaning brush then use it to scrub out the chambers.
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Old April 25, 2013, 07:09 PM   #19
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Thanks for the help guys, reset my dies went lighter on the crimp left the oal alone and cleaned the cylinders.

Everything seens to be normal now,so thanks agian everyone!!!
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Old April 25, 2013, 07:13 PM   #20
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I am glad to see when things work out from simple easy fixes.
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