long range rifle questions - Page 5

MedicineBow · June 12, 2008, 03:01 PM

Wyatt:

You're not making any sense. Hunting has ethics, like most activities.

And we're discussing those ethics. That there can be different views and variations shouldn't be surprising. That's the point of civilized conversation.

(And pita is a bread. PETA is the animal rights group.)

Boris Bush · June 12, 2008, 03:45 PM

I did not read this entire thread. For those that preach ethics. Define exactly what is ethical.

I have killed stacks of deer at ranges from feet to 100 yards or so. My longest hunting kill was over 700 yards away with a 12 ga, shotgun and a slug. While I closed the range to 88 yards before I fired, if I could have done it from 700 yards away then I would have (shotgun zone anyway).

Now as to the majority of my kills. They have been inside 20 yards. Killed legaly with 9mm, 40 and 45 caliber pistols with ball and hollowpoint.

Within the law ethics has a wide birth. What matters most is the start and end point. Start at home and come home with a legaly killed freezer filler. how someone does that exactly is up to them.

For thos that preach ethics tell me how you hunt and I will give you a good example of just how unethical your method is. While you might think it is redicilous what I might say, tough. Your reasons to tell other peole their hunting method is "unethical" sounds just as stupid to us......

Lemme hear them huntin' stories...........

BRB, I got some chicken necks to chop.......

MedicineBow · June 12, 2008, 03:57 PM

Quote:

What matters most is the start and end point. Start at home and come home with a legaly killed freezer filler. how someone does that exactly is up to them.

Sure, that's one view. That all that matters is the law. That there are no ethics involved in hunting.

mordis · June 12, 2008, 05:23 PM

OK, sorry for the long delay in responding. Now, as i have said, i have experiance shootiing varmit at extended ranges, but i have no experiance shooting biggger game at those ranges.

Im not talking about going out and finding my first deer,elk,whatever and making my first shot a 1k+ gamble. I want to start like everyone else here and get as close as i can. BUT i do intend to work my skill up so that if the need/opportunity presents itself i will be equiped to take the long shot.

For me getting on my hands and knees is a difficult thing. I have a knee injury that makes crawling a uncomfortable and painfull experiance. Knowing that, i feel that not being able to crawl comfortably will force me to work on long range hunting/shooting skills.

I have spent some time thinking about this topic, and i truly understand the sentiments here. They make sense, when you consider its a old sentiment. Born of a time when guns and ammo wernt capable of hitting anything reliably past 200 yards. Thus birthing the above said sentiments. Now tho we have guns and ammo capable of much much greater accuracy, and its tempting people to take these long shots and work up the skill to reach out and do it cleanly.

Part of this is knowing when to take the shot and when not to. That is something that is mentioned alot when a new shooter asks about long range hunting on the forum at www.longrangehunting.com. Wind is the biggest determing factor in a shoot or dont shoot get closer situation. The key thing to remember is, that long range hunting takes experiance. You cant and wont get that experiance to know when you can take the shot, or when to move closer, or what fine tuning of the scope is needed untill you actually go out and try it.

On the cartridge side, i have been looking at the 30.06AI, the 7mmsaum,7mmrum,7mm Allen magnum, .300wsm, .300winmag.
Im sure there are more .300's out there, im still looking, but im gonna try and narrow my feild down to one cartridge.

Dezynco · June 12, 2008, 05:50 PM

I would like to think that if I could see an elk, deer, or whatever at 1000 yards that it would be with the aid of some sort of optics. Allowing for that, the critter would not have any binoculars, so I should be able to close that 1000 yards down to 400-500 yards or less and make a clean kill, magnum/wildcat rifle or not. If I couldn't do that, I would consider myself a poor hunter. "Long Range" hunting is just a way to sit on the 4-wheeler and not have to get off and walk a little. Get your boots dirty man!

If I couldn't get any closer, I would just have to pass up on the shot, then go home and cook a chicken on the grill.

Boris Bush · June 12, 2008, 09:27 PM

MedicineBow

Care to elaborate? I have been planting bullets into animals for a long time. When it comes to big game I have yet to shoot table treats past 94 yards. I prefer to shoot inside 100 yards and I do.

Varmints get poked as far as I can shoot.

MCKNBRD · June 13, 2008, 06:36 AM

Quote:

Boris Bush
I have killed stacks of deer at ranges from feet to 100 yards or so. My longest hunting kill was over 700 yards away with a 12 ga, shotgun and a slug. While I closed the range to 88 yards before I fired, if I could have done it from 700 yards away then I would have (shotgun zone anyway).

I like the attitude...the 'kill' begins with the sighting. If thats the case, my longest 'kill' with my rifle (Savage Scout in .308) is about 400 yards. My friend and I saw the deer (several does being harrassed by a buck) across an open, rolling field. We glassed them, and, seeing as how I didn't know what my Scout would do past about a hundred yards (I only had it about a month), we decided to try getting closer. We quicktimed it to the edge of the field, skirting the treeline, and dropped to a crouch...and crawled about 150 yards on hands and knees. We got to the top of a small rise in the field, and I took up a prone position while my buddy hit his grunt a time or two. That stopped the buck (now about 200 yds away), and a couple of hits on the doe bleat started him towards us. The shot was right at 100 yards, with him moving perpendicular to us at 3 o'clock from our position.

THAT, to me, is hunting. I'd love to have the skill and equipment to make a 1k yd shot, but I'd rather get closer and KNOW I can drop the animal with one shot than risk injuring it.

JMHO, of course...

Byrdman

MedicineBow · June 13, 2008, 09:46 AM

Boris:

Quote:

Care to elaborate?

I tried to elaborate, above. Scroll back a page.

Art Eatman · June 13, 2008, 11:52 AM

Don't anybody ask why I didn't move this thread way, way back, 'cause I don't know.

I note it's sorta gettin' circular, and we've also had other threads on the subject...

Art

sc928porsche · June 13, 2008, 02:39 PM

Gents, Just to clarify to those who don't understand. My comment about the 50 BMG was humor.

Although I am capable of hitting a target accurately at 1k, I would never attempt it on game. Targets are fine, but there are too many things to go wrong at that distance....wind gusts etc. I am certain that anyone else who does shoot at those ranges will agree.

armedtotheteeth · June 14, 2008, 12:38 AM

Boris Bush
"I have killed stacks of deer at ranges from feet to 100 yards or so. My longest hunting kill was over 700 yards away with a 12 ga, shotgun and a slug. While I closed the range to 88 yards before I fired, if I could have done it from 700 yards away then I would have (shotgun zone anyway). "

Uhm, Boris,, You killed something 700 yards away,, with a 12 G slug???WOW!! How big was "it"

Boris Bush · June 14, 2008, 12:50 AM

armedtotheteeth

A hunter who reads what I said will understand. Read the quote you posted of what I said. I will simlify

1. Deer spotted 700+ yards away.

2. (part I left out) lots of crawling through knee to waiste high grass and a quick jaunt around a stand of corn.

3. Tired and starting to rain, deer was on the move to leave.

4. I knew the range was less than 100 yards and I just shot 50 rounds of the load I had in my smooth bore at 100 yards less than a week earlier.

5. raised my line of sight, pressed trigger, and scored a perfect hit.

6. paced off shot to 88 yards.

I see that as a 700 yard kill. Hunting has been and always be more than just shooting. You need to hunt before you can kill. I will never kill a big game animal past 100 yards because thats the way I hunt...

If someone practices and intends on hunting at 1000 yards then more power to them. This is still the land of the free and as long as it is legal and animals are eaten then happy shooting.................

mellow_c · June 14, 2008, 04:07 AM

You said the .308 can be used to kill a human at 800 yards. I dont know if thats true, but I wouldn't doubt it. The problem is, that when humans are killing humans, it's not meant to be "Humane" The point is simply to kill, or wound, or make inoperable, weather or not it's a slow death, or no death at all... thats war for ya.

If you talking about killing an animal at that distance. You would probably be better off with a caliber MADE for that kind of distance. Let alone the years and years of practice and skill you will need to pull off that kind of shot.

I'm no expert long distance shooter. I've honestly never taken a shot past 150 yards. But logic can count for alot....?

Art Eatman · June 14, 2008, 08:54 AM

1. I don't see where anything very useful is being added.

2. Browsing through the thread, there's a fair amount that probably oughta be subtracted.

Enuf.

June 12, 2008, 03:01 PM	#101
MedicineBow Senior Member Join Date: May 15, 2008 Location: Wyoming Posts: 297	Wyatt: You're not making any sense. Hunting has ethics, like most activities. And we're discussing those ethics. That there can be different views and variations shouldn't be surprising. That's the point of civilized conversation. (And pita is a bread. PETA is the animal rights group.) __________________ Dulce bellum inexpertis

June 14, 2008, 04:07 AM	#113
mellow_c Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2008 Location: Colorado Posts: 1,862	One simple Point... You said the .308 can be used to kill a human at 800 yards. I dont know if thats true, but I wouldn't doubt it. The problem is, that when humans are killing humans, it's not meant to be "Humane" The point is simply to kill, or wound, or make inoperable, weather or not it's a slow death, or no death at all... thats war for ya. If you talking about killing an animal at that distance. You would probably be better off with a caliber MADE for that kind of distance. Let alone the years and years of practice and skill you will need to pull off that kind of shot. I'm no expert long distance shooter. I've honestly never taken a shot past 150 yards. But logic can count for alot....?

June 12, 2008, 03:45 PM	#102
Boris Bush Junior member Join Date: September 7, 2007 Posts: 921	I did not read this entire thread. For those that preach ethics. Define exactly what is ethical. I have killed stacks of deer at ranges from feet to 100 yards or so. My longest hunting kill was over 700 yards away with a 12 ga, shotgun and a slug. While I closed the range to 88 yards before I fired, if I could have done it from 700 yards away then I would have (shotgun zone anyway). Now as to the majority of my kills. They have been inside 20 yards. Killed legaly with 9mm, 40 and 45 caliber pistols with ball and hollowpoint. Within the law ethics has a wide birth. What matters most is the start and end point. Start at home and come home with a legaly killed freezer filler. how someone does that exactly is up to them. For thos that preach ethics tell me how you hunt and I will give you a good example of just how unethical your method is. While you might think it is redicilous what I might say, tough. Your reasons to tell other peole their hunting method is "unethical" sounds just as stupid to us...... Lemme hear them huntin' stories........... BRB, I got some chicken necks to chop.......

June 12, 2008, 05:23 PM	#104
mordis Senior Member Join Date: April 4, 2005 Location: NE Indiana Posts: 560	OK, sorry for the long delay in responding. Now, as i have said, i have experiance shootiing varmit at extended ranges, but i have no experiance shooting biggger game at those ranges. Im not talking about going out and finding my first deer,elk,whatever and making my first shot a 1k+ gamble. I want to start like everyone else here and get as close as i can. BUT i do intend to work my skill up so that if the need/opportunity presents itself i will be equiped to take the long shot. For me getting on my hands and knees is a difficult thing. I have a knee injury that makes crawling a uncomfortable and painfull experiance. Knowing that, i feel that not being able to crawl comfortably will force me to work on long range hunting/shooting skills. I have spent some time thinking about this topic, and i truly understand the sentiments here. They make sense, when you consider its a old sentiment. Born of a time when guns and ammo wernt capable of hitting anything reliably past 200 yards. Thus birthing the above said sentiments. Now tho we have guns and ammo capable of much much greater accuracy, and its tempting people to take these long shots and work up the skill to reach out and do it cleanly. Part of this is knowing when to take the shot and when not to. That is something that is mentioned alot when a new shooter asks about long range hunting on the forum at www.longrangehunting.com. Wind is the biggest determing factor in a shoot or dont shoot get closer situation. The key thing to remember is, that long range hunting takes experiance. You cant and wont get that experiance to know when you can take the shot, or when to move closer, or what fine tuning of the scope is needed untill you actually go out and try it. On the cartridge side, i have been looking at the 30.06AI, the 7mmsaum,7mmrum,7mm Allen magnum, .300wsm, .300winmag. Im sure there are more .300's out there, im still looking, but im gonna try and narrow my feild down to one cartridge.

June 12, 2008, 05:50 PM	#105
Dezynco Senior Member Join Date: May 7, 2008 Posts: 401	I would like to think that if I could see an elk, deer, or whatever at 1000 yards that it would be with the aid of some sort of optics. Allowing for that, the critter would not have any binoculars, so I should be able to close that 1000 yards down to 400-500 yards or less and make a clean kill, magnum/wildcat rifle or not. If I couldn't do that, I would consider myself a poor hunter. "Long Range" hunting is just a way to sit on the 4-wheeler and not have to get off and walk a little. Get your boots dirty man! If I couldn't get any closer, I would just have to pass up on the shot, then go home and cook a chicken on the grill.

June 12, 2008, 09:27 PM	#106
Boris Bush Junior member Join Date: September 7, 2007 Posts: 921	MedicineBow Care to elaborate? I have been planting bullets into animals for a long time. When it comes to big game I have yet to shoot table treats past 94 yards. I prefer to shoot inside 100 yards and I do. Varmints get poked as far as I can shoot.

June 13, 2008, 11:52 AM	#109
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	Don't anybody ask why I didn't move this thread way, way back, 'cause I don't know. I note it's sorta gettin' circular, and we've also had other threads on the subject... Art

June 13, 2008, 02:39 PM	#110
sc928porsche Senior Member Join Date: May 29, 2008 Location: now living in alabama Posts: 2,433	Gents, Just to clarify to those who don't understand. My comment about the 50 BMG was humor. Although I am capable of hitting a target accurately at 1k, I would never attempt it on game. Targets are fine, but there are too many things to go wrong at that distance....wind gusts etc. I am certain that anyone else who does shoot at those ranges will agree.

June 14, 2008, 12:38 AM	#111
armedtotheteeth Senior Member Join Date: October 3, 2005 Location: podunk, Texas Posts: 1,610	Boris Bush "I have killed stacks of deer at ranges from feet to 100 yards or so. My longest hunting kill was over 700 yards away with a 12 ga, shotgun and a slug. While I closed the range to 88 yards before I fired, if I could have done it from 700 yards away then I would have (shotgun zone anyway). " Uhm, Boris,, You killed something 700 yards away,, with a 12 G slug???WOW!! How big was "it"

June 14, 2008, 12:50 AM	#112
Boris Bush Junior member Join Date: September 7, 2007 Posts: 921	armedtotheteeth A hunter who reads what I said will understand. Read the quote you posted of what I said. I will simlify 1. Deer spotted 700+ yards away. 2. (part I left out) lots of crawling through knee to waiste high grass and a quick jaunt around a stand of corn. 3. Tired and starting to rain, deer was on the move to leave. 4. I knew the range was less than 100 yards and I just shot 50 rounds of the load I had in my smooth bore at 100 yards less than a week earlier. 5. raised my line of sight, pressed trigger, and scored a perfect hit. 6. paced off shot to 88 yards. I see that as a 700 yard kill. Hunting has been and always be more than just shooting. You need to hunt before you can kill. I will never kill a big game animal past 100 yards because thats the way I hunt... If someone practices and intends on hunting at 1000 yards then more power to them. This is still the land of the free and as long as it is legal and animals are eaten then happy shooting.................

June 14, 2008, 08:54 AM	#114
Art Eatman Staff in Memoriam Join Date: November 13, 1998 Location: Terlingua, TX; Thomasville, GA Posts: 24,798	1. I don't see where anything very useful is being added. 2. Browsing through the thread, there's a fair amount that probably oughta be subtracted. Enuf.