what the best milsurp rifle

[5whiskey]

I've heard this several times now, and have decided to finally throw out the red review flag. Why is a bolt-action rifle inherently more accurate than a semi-auto? As I see it, it's more the type of rifle (carbine, short-range, etc.) and caliber that each employ, rather than the actual action itself determining accuracy. Once the round is chambered, how does the action used to chamber the round have any impact on accuracy?

JS, it really has to do with more moving parts and potential for variances in chambering/headspace patterns. You're right about the chambering of the round, but THE MAIN critical key to accuracy (other than the barrel) is chambering the round the exact same way every time.

A semi-auto design usually has to deal with variances in fitment of a gas piston into a gas block, much more mass moving during the cycling of the action, bolt fitment to a bolt carrier, it must feed reliably, etc. etc. Given the challenge of making a semi-auto reliable, many places where fitment tolerance could possibly degrade accuracy cannot be as tight as possible (therefore, as accurate as possible) because it could cause feeding issues under adverse conditions. This "play" can cause slight variances in how a round is chambered.

With the bolt action, however, you manually lock the bolt into place yourself. There are fewer moving parts, and fewer places where "loose" fitment tolerances could degrade accuracy. Really the ONLY places where fitment tolerance could degrade accuracy is consistent and equal seating on the locking lugs, and the headspace. You don't have to worry about moving mass, gas pistons seating the same way every time, fitment of bolts into bolt carriers, among other things.



In the end I wouldn't really say that a bolt action rifle has the potential to be more accurate. I think the more correct statement would be that it's MUCH MUCH easier to design an accurate bolt action than it is to design an accurate semi-auto.

[madd trapper]

I like all Military surplus firearms.

[Cheapshooter]

The best? M1 Garand hands down!!!
Best bang for the $$$ Mosen Nagant 91/30

[hodaka]

I've got a bunch. My favorite is an HRA Garand. A distant tie for 2nd between a Carl Gustoff 1914 96/38 and a 1943 03A3 Smith Corona, but I like nearly all of them. I never could warm up to the Russian and Chinese stuff, but I love the European and American stuff. Need to add a trapdoor Springfield and a Krag to my collection.

[Ignition Override]

Wulfmann described not only several rifle comparisons but the very sobering (even grim) surplus ammo situation very well, and in a complete 'nutshell'.

People who Now delay making the decision several months as to which milsurp gun to buy, could be wasting almost any opportunity to find really affordable ammo, if it is not already too late for certain calibers.
Let's count our blessings that the semi-auto AR, FN FAL, M-14, Garand etc are so popular.

[HiBC]

Precisely why the obvious choice is a Remington Rolling Block!!:-)

[RiverBoy76]

Best surplus rifle. It really depends on what you need it for. If you are looking for a beater rifle to keep in the pick up, the mosin nagant carbines are excellent. They are powerful, simple and as tough as a hammer and plenty of accuracy. For a plinker any sks should give you lots of cheap fun, its also a good deer rifle. The k-31 is a target rifle disguised as a battle rifle, same goes for the swedish mausers. But my personal favorite is the No 4 Enfield rifles, accurate enough, excellent irons, great trigger, reliable in the extreme and above all, lightning fast cock on closing action. It has taken game big and small for years in Africa and North America.

[G-man 26]

I passed on a Lee Enfield jungle carbine in .308 and am still kicking myself for it. I was a big fan of the Mosin Nagants, untill I got tired of cleaning them. I agree, they make a great truck gun with winchester ammo.

I don't know about "best", but my "favorite" is the M-1. I love the .30-06 in most platforms.

[madcratebuilder]

Best all around mil-surp I would say is the K31. M1/M1A for fire power, Lee Enfield makes a great hunting rifle, well take any NA game, The accuracy of the K312 can not be matched by any other mil-surp I have seen. It has the same ballistics as a .308/7.62. Only draw back is the six round mag.

[skydiver3346]

Well, I have owned and shot most of them in my adult life. However, just for the plain fun of it (and accuracy), its hard to beat the Swedish Mauser
(6.5x55).
For autos, the M1 Garand would be my pick.

[P5 Guy]

My personal favorite is the M1 Garand followed by the SMLE #4mk1.
The most economical I think is any of the Mosin Nagants but I prefer the carbines to the full length rifles.

[Ignition Override]

G-man 26:
If you decide to pursue a Lee-Enfield #5 "Jungle Carbine" in .303, you might find one at a gun show for $400 or so. My second #5 was listed for $350 at the Sept gun show in Memphis, and is in really good condition.
There are bits of surplus .303 ammo out there, but time will be spent looking for it. New Prvi ammo can be easily reloaded several times, from what I've read.

P5 Guy: The LE #4 is also my favorite.

As a classic, handy, lightweight and powerful rifle for its size, it is hard to beat the LE #5 among surplus bolt-action rifles. They have stopped charging grizzlies with four shots. As for milsurps, I've never read that any M-1 Carbine or old Russian SKS could do that.

5whiskey and Fellow Shooters:
Although there are huge heaps of x54R available, with other surplus calibers becoming much harder to find than what people observed a few years ago, won't this accelerate demand and price increases for the x54R ammo and such rifles (by far, the best surplus ammo/rifle deal), especially a year or two after economic growth becomes apparent and with far fewer home foreclosures?

[Tikirocker]

There is no best ... just what a person likes and gets on well with; I like my Enfields.

Tiki.

[aarondhgraham]

First place = K98 Mauser-built like a tank, accurate, powerful.
Second Place = British Lee Enfield-10 round mag, accurate, powerful enough.
Third place = M1 Carbine with a 30 round banana clip-great zombie rifle.

Last place = 7.7 mm Japanese-they just aren't good rifles.
Worst place = 6.5 Italian Carcano Carbine-absolutely laughable.

Personal favorite for esthetics? = 30-40 Krag, How can ya not fall in love with that side load trap door?

I have owned or still own all of the above and more,,,
My 8mm and .303 were the deer getters of my sordid youth,,,
Alden's catalog was where I mail ordered almost every rifle from the WW's.

The 8mm was a present from my grandfather,,,
That's why I still one and use it today.

[gyvel]

Whichever one you can still get surplus ammunition for.

There are a lot of Swedish Mausers in the back of the rack because the ammo has mostly been shot up. Looks like the Swiss and Mausers are headed that way fast.

Exactly; And the same thing is going to happen sooner or later to all the Mosin Nagants and Tokarevs and CZ52s when the supply of surplus ammo starts to dry up.

[Tikirocker]

Whichever one you can still get surplus ammunition for.

.303 Brit surplus has pretty much all but dried up - if anybody really cares about accuracy and performance ( Not just plinking ) then hand loading is the only way to go. What is left of the .303 surplus stuff is pretty poor overall and corrosive - the benefits are essentially nil. There is still plenty of commercial .303 out there also ... I just roll my own these days - to me it's well worth it.

Tiki.

[tater134]

Last place = 7.7 mm Japanese-they just aren't good rifles.
Worst place = 6.5 Italian Carcano Carbine-absolutely laughable.

Those are two pretty ridiculous statements.The Arisaka 99s have the strongest action out of all the WW2 bolt actions according to blow up tests done after the war.The T99 held up better than the 03 Springfield and the mauser during the tests.All the T99's Ive encountered including "last ditch" models are very accurate.It may be true that the fit and finish arent as good as many other bolt actions of the era but as far as durability and accuracy go the Arisaka's are near the top of my list.

The Carcano if used with proper ammunition is capable of great accuracy and the 6.5 is a good round.The only Carcano Ive had a bad experiance with was a cut down long rifle but that was due to the shortening of the barrel which was very detrimental to accuracy because Carcano rifles were made with gain twist rifling.

[aarondhgraham]

I've owned three Japanese rifles (two in 7.7 and one in 6.5),,,
Even with with the proper milsurp ammunition,,,
they were marginal performers at best.

I and a friend both bought Carcano carbines,,,
As I stated before, their performance was laughable.

This opinion isn't due to what I have read somewhere,,,
This is due to my experience with the rifles.

If your experience with these guns was different,,,
I laud your good fortune.

Aarond

[johnwilliamson062]

IMO, K31.

Everyone should own a MN @$75.


For a semi-auto the Garand has to win hands down.

[Tamara]

Originally Posted by smleno1mkIII

...my personal favorite is my no1 mkIII Lee Enfield...

With a screen name like that, who would have guessed?

Putting aside the fact that "best" is an awfully vague term (best at what?), I'd say that the one I'd be most likely to want to carry on a two-way rifle range would be my Garand. If we're limited to manual repeaters, then I'd go with my No.4 Mk.2.

[RamSlammer]

M96 Swedish Mauser for me. I have a K31 and it's just as good, accurate, etc., but the Swede is perfection.

[Gator_Weiss]

You have to go a long way to beat the 98 rifle.

I have both German and Jugoslav. The Jugoslav is a heavier piece of wood with "just OK" machining. The German is excellent, and it hits right on the money with factory loads, or duplicated JS loads made on the loading bench.

If you are not going to load many rounds for these rifles, the little Lee Loader handkits will work just fine for you.

The 7.65 Argentine Mauser has some of the best steel and some of the best machining that Mauser ever did. Surplus Ammo is all but gone. Norma loads are way, way, over priced. So you have to handload your own. Cases are available. You can convert 30-06 cases, but sometimes the neck stock is a little bit thick in some of the 30-06 cases you find. Especially the military cases. Doesnt hurt to polish the neck it down on a lathe or drill press after re-forming the 30-06 case in your forming die. The 7.65 Argentine has a slightly thicker barrell wall than the other guns, and it may add to the accuracy of the gun.

I hate to see anyone chopping these guns into experimental dear rifles. If you feel you have to make an experimental rifle, then look for one already choopped. Dont chop a pristine piece.

[Radionicist]

Hard to beat a 1903A3 in my book:



I picked this one up this summer from the CMP. I was expecting a decent rifle with a dirty barrel, but got a beauty with a like new bore. It's a great shooter, and my favorite milsurp.

Keep an eye out for one - they show up for around $500 pretty often.

[raftman]

I and a friend both bought Carcano carbines,,,
As I stated before, their performance was laughable.

Yep. I've an old family friend that made attempts at using a sporterized Carcano for hunting. He's also used a Mosin 91/30, Yugo Mauser, and even a Steyer M95 for the same applications. The conclusion he came to is that it's probably the only rifle he's used that would be more effective if thrown rather than fired.

[zfk55]

How about the 7.5x55 Swiss cartridge that had no less than six (6) rifles designed around it??

The Schmidt Rubin 96/11


The 1911sr


The k11


The k31


The zfk55 Sniper


And the PE57 Selective.


All use the same cartridge and are inherently the single most accurate production military rifles ever produced.

ZFK55