Video: Shot with LEO .45 and still fighting for minutes - Page 3

Big Don · January 16, 2007, 10:33 PM

Early in my career as a firefighter/paramedic, a wonderful new drug called "Angel Dust" appeared on the scene. We attended a seminar to make us more aware of what to expect (anything!) and what to watch out for (anything+mayhem)

One of the police officers teaching the course recounted a shooting by the Los Angeles Sheriff's office: BG was "dusted" and on a rampage. LASO had the legal necessities to shoot him (don't remember the specifics but he needed killing) so they proceeded to dump multiple rounds into the BG. The officer recounting the story said the only reason this guy went down was because he bled out: no more blood for his heart to pump. As I recall, LASO was using 9MM ammo at the time. They dumped several mags into him, most of them being torso hits.
For the younger set, Angel Dust was an animal tranquilizer that made people quite crazy and they didn't feel the pain, unlike a former president of ours.

rantingredneck · January 16, 2007, 11:55 PM

First let me say unequivocally I'm not a LEO and never have been, but I am a 22 year student of the martial arts, from empty hands, to edged weapons, to firearms. I've also worked in various mental health programs over the last 12 years of my professional life and have worked with some extremely violent individuals who required physical restraint to prevent them from injuring themselves or others, namely me. I've had to wrestle with and restrain individuals taller, stronger, and heavier than me to the ground and keep them there without injuring them or allowing them to injure me. And for a three year period in my life I did this on a near daily basis. It is from this experience that my comments about this video spring.

I notice the officer moves away only slightly when the fellow takes out a knife to open the suspicious package. To his credit he moves away and puts his hand on his gun, but he should've never allowed that fellow to draw that knife in the first place. He should've instructed the fellow to put the knife down and his hands on the vehicle or maybe even cuffed him so he could open the package himself. An average human can close a gap of 21 feet in a second and a half. The cop was no more than 5 or 6 feet away from the fellow when he was holding the blade. If he'd closed that gap faster and been able to block the cop's draw, he could've easily sustained a serious or fatal wound from the blade. Knife fighting is ugly business. One of my favorite quotes on the subject is that if two people who know what they're doing engage with blades, one is going to the hospital and the other is going to the morgue. If the assailant had known what he was doing and not been high the cop could've been in serious trouble in that situation with the gap between them being so narrow.

As it is, and as others have said, the cop seemed to fall into the fallacy of the "one shot stop". He should've double or even triple tapped him COM. A CNS shot on an advancing attacker even at that range could've been dicey. A local Sheriff in the neighboring county here got some press years ago for a shooting of a kid trying to stick up a convenience store with a pellet gun. The pellet gun looked like the real thing and the Sheriff happened to be off duty and patronizing the store at the time. He triple tapped the kid and he didn't fall so he triple tapped him a second time and he finally went down. It was of course ruled a good shoot because the kid was engaged in a felony with a fake firearm that looked just like the real thing.

The third problem I have is that the cop wrestled with the guy for a long time while his holster was admittedly unsecured. Had the gun fallen out and the BG grabbed it, well then the story would've had a much different ending...........

shooter71 · January 17, 2007, 12:35 PM

i kept waiting for the LEO to club the dude with the flashlight..or use a taser, but i couldnt tell if he had one or not...but at least , i was expecting a face full of OC spray ...now if that dashboard cam hadnt been going..wellllllllllll........

Pointer · January 17, 2007, 01:38 PM

A lower abdomen shot... is worthless...

Only one shot taken... is worthless...

And this perp was on something...

The caliber doesn't matter... if you don't use it correctly...

Mini14 · February 6, 2007, 05:40 PM

Why didn't the cop empty the magazine into him? For that matter, why didn't he have either a shotgun or a Mini14-style-rifle? I'll bet either a load of Wolf buckshot or a .223 JSP round would have ended this fight alot quicker.

A pistol is a back up for a shotgun or rifle.

MCCALL911 · February 6, 2007, 06:16 PM

Quote:

This is not a video to show cops what to do, but what not to do.

+1000000!

Pointer · February 7, 2007, 02:58 AM

Quote:

Why didn't the cop empty the magazine into him?

He could never justify emptying his magazine into the guy... The review bard would have eaten him alive...

However, he could have shot him three times without reprisal as long as he was still threatening him with the knife... which wouldn't have been for very long...

BUT... he would still have needed to put them into his chest and head...

straightShot · February 7, 2007, 06:24 AM

I haven't been able to view either of the videos posted on YouTube and instead see a message that states "This video has been removed due to terms of use violation".

Are there any other links?

akr · February 7, 2007, 08:56 AM

Look at it this way. That cop is much smarter today if he is still alive, than he was before he stopped that guy.

markj · February 7, 2007, 05:18 PM

Quote:

For the younger set, Angel Dust was an animal tranquilizer that made people quite crazy

PCP. Many sold it to others as pure THC. It is a pig tranq, we use it on the farm or used to I should say.

Groundhog · February 15, 2007, 12:18 PM

Any other place we can find this video?

Truth Duty Valour · February 17, 2007, 02:57 AM

another source please

Duckman44! · February 19, 2007, 06:54 PM

I love how someone has to be high on drugs t be able to withstand a gunshot wound. We are animals people!!! Have you ever shot a deer in the bread basket with a .308 only to have it run 75 yards before keeling over??? I have once or twice. Some people are just hard nosed (no "DRUGS" needed). Some people have the ability to ignore pain and unless it's an instantly fatal shot then thats more or less all it is.

9mmsnoopy · February 21, 2007, 11:31 PM

i havent seen it and guess i wont, i clicked on the link, its been removed from youtube.

Pointer · February 24, 2007, 05:45 PM

The video was of a LEO searching a perp and his vehicle...

The perp pulled a long knife and tried to stab the LEO...

The LEO pulled his gun and shot the perp in the lower abs...

He fired only ONE round and then spent a very long minute sorta "wrestling" with him...

The point to be made is that in the sense that he risked his own life trying to spare his attacker...
He handled the situation poorly...

I believe he should have fired a double tap about 18 inches higher in order to at least put the perp on the ground in a manner that he would no longer be a threat...

January 16, 2007, 10:33 PM	#51
Big Don Senior Member Join Date: June 13, 2006 Location: Hayden, ID Posts: 375	How many do you need? Early in my career as a firefighter/paramedic, a wonderful new drug called "Angel Dust" appeared on the scene. We attended a seminar to make us more aware of what to expect (anything!) and what to watch out for (anything+mayhem) One of the police officers teaching the course recounted a shooting by the Los Angeles Sheriff's office: BG was "dusted" and on a rampage. LASO had the legal necessities to shoot him (don't remember the specifics but he needed killing) so they proceeded to dump multiple rounds into the BG. The officer recounting the story said the only reason this guy went down was because he bled out: no more blood for his heart to pump. As I recall, LASO was using 9MM ammo at the time. They dumped several mags into him, most of them being torso hits. For the younger set, Angel Dust was an animal tranquilizer that made people quite crazy and they didn't feel the pain, unlike a former president of ours. __________________ [SIZE="3"][SIZE="2"]Don't pick a fight with an old man. If he's too old to fight, he'll just kill you. "If men are so wicked with religion, what would they be if without it?"- Benjamin Franklin

January 17, 2007, 12:35 PM	#53
shooter71 Senior Member Join Date: October 13, 2006 Location: USA Posts: 129	i kept waiting for the LEO to club the dude with the flashlight..or use a taser, but i couldnt tell if he had one or not...but at least , i was expecting a face full of OC spray ...now if that dashboard cam hadnt been going..wellllllllllll........ __________________ "These are only my opinions"

January 17, 2007, 01:38 PM	#54
Pointer Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2005 Location: Utah Posts: 2,559	A lower abdomen shot... is worthless... Only one shot taken... is worthless... And this perp was on something... The caliber doesn't matter... if you don't use it correctly... __________________ . "Political correctness is tyranny with a happy face." Charlton Heston 30-06 FOREVER

February 7, 2007, 06:24 AM	#58
straightShot Senior Member Join Date: July 2, 2000 Location: MI, USA Posts: 668	I haven't been able to view either of the videos posted on YouTube and instead see a message that states "This video has been removed due to terms of use violation". Are there any other links? __________________ Take a kid shooting.

February 15, 2007, 12:18 PM	#61
Groundhog Senior Member Join Date: February 5, 2007 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 406	gone missing Any other place we can find this video?

January 16, 2007, 11:55 PM	#52
rantingredneck Senior Member Join Date: January 12, 2007 Location: North Carolina Posts: 4,728	First let me say unequivocally I'm not a LEO and never have been, but I am a 22 year student of the martial arts, from empty hands, to edged weapons, to firearms. I've also worked in various mental health programs over the last 12 years of my professional life and have worked with some extremely violent individuals who required physical restraint to prevent them from injuring themselves or others, namely me. I've had to wrestle with and restrain individuals taller, stronger, and heavier than me to the ground and keep them there without injuring them or allowing them to injure me. And for a three year period in my life I did this on a near daily basis. It is from this experience that my comments about this video spring. I notice the officer moves away only slightly when the fellow takes out a knife to open the suspicious package. To his credit he moves away and puts his hand on his gun, but he should've never allowed that fellow to draw that knife in the first place. He should've instructed the fellow to put the knife down and his hands on the vehicle or maybe even cuffed him so he could open the package himself. An average human can close a gap of 21 feet in a second and a half. The cop was no more than 5 or 6 feet away from the fellow when he was holding the blade. If he'd closed that gap faster and been able to block the cop's draw, he could've easily sustained a serious or fatal wound from the blade. Knife fighting is ugly business. One of my favorite quotes on the subject is that if two people who know what they're doing engage with blades, one is going to the hospital and the other is going to the morgue. If the assailant had known what he was doing and not been high the cop could've been in serious trouble in that situation with the gap between them being so narrow. As it is, and as others have said, the cop seemed to fall into the fallacy of the "one shot stop". He should've double or even triple tapped him COM. A CNS shot on an advancing attacker even at that range could've been dicey. A local Sheriff in the neighboring county here got some press years ago for a shooting of a kid trying to stick up a convenience store with a pellet gun. The pellet gun looked like the real thing and the Sheriff happened to be off duty and patronizing the store at the time. He triple tapped the kid and he didn't fall so he triple tapped him a second time and he finally went down. It was of course ruled a good shoot because the kid was engaged in a felony with a fake firearm that looked just like the real thing. The third problem I have is that the cop wrestled with the guy for a long time while his holster was admittedly unsecured. Had the gun fallen out and the BG grabbed it, well then the story would've had a much different ending...........

February 6, 2007, 05:40 PM	#55
Mini14 Member Join Date: November 23, 2006 Location: WEst by God and the Mini14 Virginia Posts: 31	Why didn't the cop empty the magazine into him? For that matter, why didn't he have either a shotgun or a Mini14-style-rifle? I'll bet either a load of Wolf buckshot or a .223 JSP round would have ended this fight alot quicker. A pistol is a back up for a shotgun or rifle.

February 7, 2007, 08:56 AM	#59
akr Senior Member Join Date: March 6, 2006 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 1,379	Look at it this way. That cop is much smarter today if he is still alive, than he was before he stopped that guy.

February 17, 2007, 02:57 AM	#62
Truth Duty Valour Junior Member Join Date: February 16, 2007 Posts: 1	another source please

February 19, 2007, 06:54 PM	#63
Duckman44! Member Join Date: November 25, 2006 Posts: 41	??? I love how someone has to be high on drugs t be able to withstand a gunshot wound. We are animals people!!! Have you ever shot a deer in the bread basket with a .308 only to have it run 75 yards before keeling over??? I have once or twice. Some people are just hard nosed (no "DRUGS" needed). Some people have the ability to ignore pain and unless it's an instantly fatal shot then thats more or less all it is.

February 21, 2007, 11:31 PM	#64
9mmsnoopy Senior Member Join Date: December 14, 2004 Location: Thrillsville ,Tx Posts: 904	i havent seen it and guess i wont, i clicked on the link, its been removed from youtube. __________________ beretta cx4 storm .40 caliber sig P290 Kahr PM9 Glock 26 Bushmaster AR15

February 24, 2007, 05:45 PM	#65
Pointer Senior Member Join Date: April 8, 2005 Location: Utah Posts: 2,559	The video was of a LEO searching a perp and his vehicle... The perp pulled a long knife and tried to stab the LEO... The LEO pulled his gun and shot the perp in the lower abs... He fired only ONE round and then spent a very long minute sorta "wrestling" with him... The point to be made is that in the sense that he risked his own life trying to spare his attacker... He handled the situation poorly... I believe he should have fired a double tap about 18 inches higher in order to at least put the perp on the ground in a manner that he would no longer be a threat... __________________ . "Political correctness is tyranny with a happy face." Charlton Heston 30-06 FOREVER