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Old October 19, 2010, 05:18 AM   #1
Hutch11
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Help With 308 Rifle Purchase

I want to purchase my first Left Handed Bolt Action. I want it to be a light weight rifle for target shooting as well as hunting for deer, hogs, and othe east coast game. I have looked at the usual suspects and am trying to narrow down to one. Right now my favorite is the Tikka T3 Lite (smooth action, very light weight), but I also like Remington 700 (looked at a SPS in RH), Savage (do not remember the model but had Accutrigger and Accu-bedding), Browning X-Bolt (Seemed very nice, expensive, just not excited about buying a Gun "Made In Japan") and the Thompson Icon (Least expensive, action and rifle felt good).

The scope I am leaning towards is the Leupold VX-3, most likely 3.5-10X50 and probable the new low mount L model. Now I have a very nice FN-AR in 308 that is exceptionally accurate and heavy. I have taken it into the woods twice this year and am tired of lugging it around and trying not to scratch it. So I want a very durable, light weight rifle. I have never taken the trouble before to order exactly what I want, as this will be my first "Lefty" bolt gun.

Your suggestions are appreciated.
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Old October 19, 2010, 05:52 AM   #2
LanceOregon
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The Tikka T3 rifles are very cheaply made, and not at all in the same class with the other rifles that you mention.

If you want to get a Remington 700, I would highly recommend their XCR model. Remington is offering a $100 rebate on the XCR through the end of this year, which will help to offset the higher cost. And if you shop around, you can find them for around $700:

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=196298455

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=196048863

The Thompson Center Icon, though, is also a very good rifle. You would do well to get one of them also.

One thing that I like about both the T/C Icon and the 700 XCR is that they both come with 24 inch barrels, instead of the short 22 inch, that many other brands have. That way, with 24 inches, you can get full factory published velocity from any ammo.


.
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Old October 19, 2010, 07:44 AM   #3
precision_shooter
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Quote:
The Tikka T3 rifles are very cheaply made, and not at all in the same class with the other rifles that you mention.
Being the proud owner of a Tikka T3 Lite in .308, the above comment couldn't be more misleading or wrong.

The Tikka's are very nicely made guns with exceptionally smooth actions, Great Triggers and Excellent Accuracy.

To say they are not in the same class as the Remington, which as of late, it's the luck of the draw as to whether or not you get a good one. The factory trigger on the Rem is lacking and will most likely require a trigger job to get it where you want it, the accuracy may or may not be acceptable without having to spend money on free floating and pillar bedding, and the action can't hold a candle to the Tikka.

If I couldn't get the Tikka, the next on my list would be the Savage.
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Old October 19, 2010, 08:37 AM   #4
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Being a lefty myself, I can appreciate your dilemma. As it happens, I just yesterday went to the range with my brand new Savage Weather Warrior in 7mm-08. It has the Accutrigger and Accustock. I was apprehensive about the rifle because after I purchased it I had heard some negative comment regarding the twist rate of the rifle. It seems that everyone else who makes a 7mm-08 uses a 1:9.5 twist rate and Savage went to 1:11.5. ANYWAY... long story short, it is an incredibly accurate rifle. I was getting 1" groups with it at 100 yds. yesterday right out of the box. Literally. I have a Leupold VX 3 3.5-10 scope on it. My reason for belaboring the twist rate is because some have said that the rifle would not stabilize heavier bullets. Well, I shot some 150 grain rounds through it, and it did just as well with those as with the 120 and 139 and 140 grainers. Excellent rifle.

I also just purchased a Tikka T3 in .30-06, and though I haven't shot it yet, it seems to be a well-made rifle.
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Old October 19, 2010, 10:28 AM   #5
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I would not go for the scope mentioned. A 50MM scope is too large, and for hunting one does not need 10X.

If money is much of a consideration I would go with a Rem 700 scoped with a Leupold VX-3 2.5-8x36 mm.

I have found that the 36mm objective lens give me all the light I need for any legal shooting time, and even before and after legal shooting times.

The scope mentioned might be fun on the range, but when one hunts he has to carry the rifle, and I have found that I want to save all the weight I can while getting the best for the job at hand.
Having hunted in Alaska where we got out of a bush plane in a creek bed, and spent the day and maybe the next climbing above timber line with all the gear and food necessary for the duration of the hunt, I greatly appreciate saving even a few ounces.

Regards,
Jerry
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Old October 19, 2010, 11:28 AM   #6
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Being the owner of several Tikka rifles over many years I would have to agree with precision_shooter A lot of people perceive the T3 to be cheaply made because of the composite trigger guard and magazine.(done to shed weight) Tikka has been making rifles for a very long time. Oy Tikkakoski (Tikka) pre dates Sako by 29 years and got its start in the arms business by rebuilding Mosin-Nagant rifles for the Finnish Defense Forces. They have been bought out a few times over the years 1st by Nokia then Sako and now Berretta, they still make a very high quality, out of the box accurate rifle
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Old October 19, 2010, 02:38 PM   #7
Hutch11
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I appreciate your comments, I looked at Remington's website today and the only Lefty 308 is the Varmint Edition of the 700. I want to lighten the load, and although this appears to be a nice rifle, I want lighter weight. The Savage seems to have an extremely nice trigger, but it is also much heavier than the Tikka, and in fairness, there was no comparison in how much smoother the bolt moved in the three Tikka's I looked at, compared to any of the other guns.

I think I will order the Tikka in stainless in 308.

Are there any important modifications for accuracy that the forum can recommend?
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Old October 19, 2010, 02:47 PM   #8
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Are there any important modifications for accuracy that the forum can recommend?
Nope. Guaranteed to print 3-shot sub 1-inch groups at 100 yards from the factory.

I've not done anything to my rifle other than add a scope, limbsaver recoil pad, and a sling and it shoots 3/4 inch groups at 100 yds using factory Hornady 150gr SST ammo.
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Old October 19, 2010, 02:52 PM   #9
.300 Weatherby Mag
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Out of what you listed.. I would select the savage... I don't like the look or feel of the Tikka T3 (they do shoot though). My father is a lefty and he's had excellent luck with the left handed savage rifles.. Last one was a sporter weight .223 rem that routinely produced 5 shot groups under 3/4's of an inch at 100 yards with factory loads...
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Old October 19, 2010, 04:12 PM   #10
gaseousclay
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Quote:
Browning X-Bolt (Seemed very nice, expensive, just not excited about buying a Gun "Made In Japan")
may I ask why you have an aversion to a product that's made in Japan? my guess would be that Japan's manufacturing standards are pretty high when compared to countries like China, so you're not getting a piece of garbage. Would you buy a Finnish rifle like Sako or Tikka or buy from an Italian company like Berreta? or are you just repeating the same old firearm meme that's so common amongst gun owners?
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Old October 19, 2010, 05:07 PM   #11
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I've owned a X-bolt Hunter in .270Win for almost 2 years now and highly recommend it. Action is flawless, I love the trigger, and the manufacturing is well done. Don't see any reason why the "Made in Japan" should throw you off.
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Old October 19, 2010, 06:52 PM   #12
gaseousclay
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Don't see any reason why the "Made in Japan" should throw you off.
I still haven't figured this out either. the only possible explanations I could come up with are:

A. people associate Japan with China who are known to churn out cheap product. however, I would argue that Japan has very high manufacturing standards and have given us a lot of great product over the years.

B. WW2. I wouldn't be surprised if people still clung to what happened in the past. I don't hear anyone boycotting German made cars like VW or BMW or Italian goods. my feeling is, get over it. this crap happened 60 yrs ago and if you can't get past a war you probably weren't around for then you have no business criticising a firearm made in Japan.

C. no explanation. I think some people simply read the negative things that others say and follow suit.
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Old October 19, 2010, 07:15 PM   #13
LanceOregon
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Being the proud owner of a Tikka T3 Lite in .308, the above comment couldn't be more misleading or wrong.

The Tikka's are very nicely made guns with exceptionally smooth actions, Great Triggers and Excellent Accuracy.
Your Tikka T3 Lite may shoot well for you, but I could never get mine to shoot up to my personal standards. And I demand superior accuracy from my rifles. So when I cannot get one to shoot really well, I sell it, and move on to something else. The Tikka shot no better than the Ruger 77 stainless that I had before that. I ended up replacing the Tikka T3 with a Remington 700 LVSF, which is an absolute tack driver.

And my comments about how well the gun is made are right on the money and absolutely factual. Sako made numerous compromises to reduce the cost to manufacture the Tikka T3. These shortcuts have been documented in numerous reviews of the rifle. Everything from little things like the cheap plastic trigger guard, to the funky and totally non-standard bedding block it uses. That weird design alone pretty much prevents one from ever being able to upgrade the rifle with any of the popular third party rifle stocks that are available on the market. And that is a problem, since the factory stock and recoil pad do such a lousy job of handling recoil.

The substandard stock design, combine with a crappy recoil pad, leaves a T3 owner with a gun that is not at all comfortable to shoot. In stark comparison, my Remington 700 LVSF rifles both came with an awesome stock made by Bell and Carlson, with a fantastic Limbsaver Pro recoil pad on it. My 700 LVSF rifles could not be more comfortable to shoot. It is like night and day compared to the Tikka T3.

The trigger was nothing exceptional on mine either, even after I adjusted it. Besides that, the Tikka T3 triggers are quite thin, especially compared to the nice wide design that the Remington 700 rifles have. You can get far better contact with your finger on the trigger of the Remington 700.

And that smooth working bolt? Heck, it is not even a proper short action bolt. Sako took so many shortcuts on the T3 that they gave it one single standard action and bolt length, which is long enough to handle magnum calibers like the super long 300 Winchester Magnum. You put a short action round like the .308 Winchester into the rifle, and you have to use these funky looking magazines that actually only use a portion of their length. And your bolt throw is going to be just as long as a magnum rifle, instead of a much shorter proper length like it is on a Remington 700, a Browning X-Bolt, or a T/C Icon.

So while the Tikka T3 is your cup of tea, it certainly was not mine. Once I took a closer look at it and shot it, I realized how far Sako had compromised to keep the cost of the rifle down.

Here is my crappy Ruger, before I put a scope on it:


.


Here is my crappy Tikka T3 Lite, with scope mounted:


.


and here is my totally awesome Remington 700 LVSF, that replaced my Tikka T3:




Management at Remington has gone insane, though. For they discontinued the model 700 LVSF a year ago. Apparently its high price was putting people off.

.
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Old October 19, 2010, 07:21 PM   #14
LanceOregon
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ChuckHawks is one gun writer who has his own website, and does not write for any magazines that take advertising dollars from any of the big gun makers. Consequently, he is free from the corrupting influence of advertising dollars, and can call things like he sees them.

And his opinion of the Tikka T3 is probably even lower than mine is.

This article is a real good read for anyone seriously considering buying a Tikka T3:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/critical_look_T3.htm

.
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Old October 19, 2010, 10:35 PM   #15
Hutch11
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LanceOregon, I appreciate the reply, unfortunately, the only Lefty 308 Remington makes is the Varmint 700 SPS, according to their website. Other than the Remington, do you have any other recommendations. According to the attached article, the only guns Chuck seemed to recommend where Pre-64 Winchesters, Mausers, and Mauser clones.

To the others concerning Japan, I do not harbor any negative feelings towards the Japanese. I did not fight them in WWII (was not born), and do not consider their products to be poor quality. I regularly hunt with a Japanese scope. In fact, I own guns from all over the world including the Former Solvet Union and Communist China. It is just a personal thing for me stemming from when Browning, several years ago switched almost all of their production to Japan. (I bought one of the last A-5's produced in Belgium as my first shotgun when I turned 18) Sorry, no great conspiracy. I was very impressed by the dura-armor stock, but the bolt on two X-Bolts appeared to stick at the sixty degree mark, and the gun was heavier and more expensive than the Tikka or the Thompson. Has anyone else had their X-Bolt's stick or hang-up, neither clerk at the gun store could explain it.

To the Tikka owners reading this forum, has anyone experienced problems as described by Lance Oregon? Is that a fluke or a real problem with Tikka. I appreciate your assistance.
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Old October 20, 2010, 07:54 AM   #16
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Quote:
ChuckHawks is one gun writer who has his own website, and does not write for any magazines that take advertising dollars from any of the big gun makers. Consequently, he is free from the corrupting influence of advertising dollars, and can call things like he sees them.
Just because he doesn't work for a magazine doesn't mean he's not biased....
He is biased towards anything modern as evidenced in several of his articles and as Hutch11 stated, if it's not a pre-64 Winchester or a Mauser, then he doesn't like it...

The best reviews anyone will ever get is from the people that own and use their rifles. Not just a writer who gets one delivered, takes is out of the box, shoots it a handfull of times and decides since it's not a Winchester or Mauser that it's inferior or a piece of crap.

I've owned my T3 for about 5 years now. I haven't had 1 single problem out of it. The trigger is crisp with no creep and very very minimal overtravel. Breaks cleanly at around 3.5 lbs which is plenty light for a hunting rifle.

The stock is plastic, but is more ridgid than anything offered by Savage or Remington (excluding the aftermarket stocks on some of their rifles). You pay a hefty price for the Bell and Carlson stock updgrade and it's not needed. All you need is to spend $20 on a Limbsaver replacement recoil pad and all the "unpleasantness" is gone.

The action, again, is far better than ANY Remington or Savage i've ever cycled. Unlike the Remington, the Tikka does not need to be cycled thousands of times to get broken in and smooth up. Any Remington in the same price range as the Tikka will require this to smooth up the action. The Tikka also has a very short bolt lift to unlock, which is nice as well.

I'm not a Fan-Boy of any MFG, but I have owned and shot a lot of different firearms and I know what works and what doesn't for me. The Tikka works every time all the time and hits where I aim. It is a tool/instrument, not an art piece. Mine gets banged around every year and still performs like it did the day I pulled it out of the box.
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Old October 20, 2010, 10:17 AM   #17
Woodyed
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I have about 7 Tikka's, all in various calibers, and I am well pleased with all of them. The smooth bolt action along with their excellent triggers and accuracy will rival any gun on the market today. The trigger guards and magazines might be made of tough plastic but I've never heard of any being broken and they cut down on weight. I've also found their stocks to be of no discomfort to shoot either. Chuck Hawks and LO are entitled to their opinions, as anyone is, but I really think their opinion of Tikka's is definitely in the minority and not shared by any Tikka owners. Speaking of plastic on rifles, look how many rifles are made with plastic stocks along with magazines that are on the market today, and Remington leads the pack. Every gun maker utilizes plastic nowdays in their products, which has its advantages such as no rust, self-lubrication characteristic of plastic reduces wear on moving parts, plus reducing weight of firearms. Synthetics are hear to stay in everything we buy whether it's guns, cars, appliances, fishing tackle, or household products.
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Old October 20, 2010, 11:10 AM   #18
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I have two 700s, one LH SPS in '06 and a VTR in 308. The trigger on both is fantastic. I've heard many complain about the SPS stock design, but they fit me fine. My LH has the new R3 recoil pad, which really helps. Think I'll foam fill the buttstock, too.
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Old October 20, 2010, 12:27 PM   #19
uwtriguy
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I'm not a south paw but I am looking to purchase my first rifle (308) as well. So far I have it fairly narrowed down to a Remington 700 but then the problem is Remmy makes so many damn choices of the gun. I will mainly be deer hunting with it but I also want a fun range gun so I need a balance. I think I am narrowing to the VTR or SPS/SPS Tactical. The varmint seems too heavy and long to carry through the woods or perhaps balance from a tree stand.

Just my little bit.
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